Repair Soldering Procedures

[grinovsky]

i want to share with DK forum members this tutorial about desoldring procedures that i find very useful
http://hotfile.com/dl/118351876/cffe42e/Repair_-_Soldering_Procedures.rar.htm (http://hotfile.com/dl/118351876/cffe42e/Repair_-_Soldering_Procedures.rar.html)

it's interesting to see what there are in the other side of processores:Dl (http://hotfile.com/dl/118351876/cffe42e/Repair_-_Soldering_Procedures.rar.html)
http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/16/03/79/30/110.jpg

[cater50]

nice !! Bga hard to desolder !

[elchip]

i want to share with DK forum members this tutorial about desoldring procedures that i find very useful
http://hotfile.com/dl/118351876/cffe42e/Repair_-_Soldering_Procedures.rar.htm (http://hotfile.com/dl/118351876/cffe42e/Repair_-_Soldering_Procedures.rar.html)

it's interesting to see what there are in the other side of processores:Dl (http://hotfile.com/dl/118351876/cffe42e/Repair_-_Soldering_Procedures.rar.html)

Thamk's for good post and I need info did you see or maybe have reballing stencil for MPC55x MCU ?

I am looking for that stencil.

Regard's

[grinovsky]

Thamk's for good post and I need info did you see or maybe have reballing stencil for MPC55x MCU ?

I am looking for that stencil.

Regard's
this is all pin out MPC555:D
http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/16/03/79/30/210.jpg

[nokwueze]

pls sir

i have two ecu one bad and the other good i want know the immo chip so that i can transfer to the good one fsi
what's number bosch of ecu?
06f906056GE bezin med9.5.10 8940
BOSCH 0261 S02 277
pls sir help me

[grinovsky]

read by bdm flash and eprom of old ecu and write in the new

[nokwueze]

read by bdm flash and eprom of old ecu and write in the new
pls which tool can i use for this and there positions pls {what if i transfer them can it work}

[grinovsky]

we desolder and solder when the ecu don't have a bdm port
but the med9.5.10 have a bdm port so you don't have to desolder any think
use bdm100 to clone the ecu
http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/16/03/79/30/310.jpg

[nokwueze]

we desolder and solder when the ecu don't have a bdm port
but the med9.5.10 have a bdm port so you don't have to desolder any think
use bdm100 to clone the ecu

thanks for ur replies so far pls how can i get good bdm 100

[grinovsky]

search on ebay,they have for 65 euro

[nokwueze]

thanks my man
one last question if i should buy this tool will it be ease too handle {i have not seen it or used it before } as a learner pls sir

[Zmann]

we desolder and solder when the ecu don't have a bdm port
but the med9.5.10 have a bdm port so you don't have to desolder any think
use bdm100 to clone the ecu
Thanks for a nice post.

Read/write MPCxxx ECU of no bdm port by desoldering the MCU. Im curious that what we're going to do next, put it on the bdm-ported board then start with a programmer. So, are you saying that we need desoldering/soldering this BGA device of two rounds? or any other way.

[nokwueze]

hello geo pls can u help me and get the original
one

[grinovsky]

i success to desolder BGA but the motherbord was destroyed
if i can desolder and solder the BGA as show in pdf fille ;i can repair it,it's hard but it's not impossible
the best way,is always to programme this device on bord by bdm port
this is a small step for a man and a big step for DKMEMBERS

[paul_12345]

getting bga's off the board is the easy part trying to get the back on with all solder making good contact is the hard part.

[grinovsky]

i find desolder the 2nd processore more easy than the first
may be the 3rd one will be d?solder and resoldere with succes:D
http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/16/03/79/30/410.jpg

[rappttor]

there are bga kits for this kind of processor, and they are not so expensive...so the job can be done quite easily if you have the propre tools..
anyway, does anybody try to read this proc of the board :) this should interesting

[mcdc]

i find desolder the 2nd processore more easy than the first
may be the 3rd one will be d?solder and resoldere with succes:D

I can give you some tips...

1st - Get a good IR (ceramic, dark IR) soldering Machine
2nd - Pre Heat and Bottom Heat are the most important.
3rd - Upper heat cannot be too much temperature. It's easier to damage the chip than the MB.

Some people prefer hot air for BGA, i prefer IR... Cleaner and easier.

Regards,
MCDC

[grinovsky]

WELCOME TO mcdc (http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/members/261032-mcdc/) TO DK FORUM:wavey:

[v8 dave]

I do loads of BGA reballing for laptops. Good BGA jig and decent tacky flux is the key. I use hot air because I'm poor so can't afford IRDA. It just take practice, and 300 degrees C :)

[erniez]

I do loads of BGA reballing for laptops. Good BGA jig and decent tacky flux is the key. I use hot air because I'm poor so can't afford IRDA. It just take practice, and 300 degrees C :)
As na IPC certified BGA technician (i know it really doesn't mean much to some) I can tell you from my practise that decent hot air station is better than IR. Of course hot air got it's limits like it can't be used with plastic connectors and so on but still for clear BGA i prefer hot air. The key is decent station with decent pre-heater and a good control of whole process in meaning of three stages. You also mention about flux - and you right what's also important in this case is to know properties of the one you using (activation and deactivation temp.). Following few "iron" rules will lead you to 95% of success. BTW if some one needs a hand or tips in subject of soldering BGA feel free to ask me - I can share some IPC materials and some experience.

[ROBERTby2000]

use irda staion for big proccesor with bga....
work like a charm....
i have distroyed some pcb with hot air.... :(
i speak from my experience

[nazz2]

I have this one,but dont know how to use it,no instructions,used it once,then the components fell of from the bottom of the pcb,but it removes plastic without melting,here is the link, up for sale,if anyone is interested.

BGA Rework (http://www.jovy-systems.com/BGA_Rework.htm)

[ROBERTby2000]

watch the tutorial in youtube.... and experiment`s in some pcb broken...

[nazz2]

Yes but this one its a bit complicated for me, i prefare hot air! and the tools support,i was told its not bad,basically you can give it profile,and you have to reshape the heat sensor slightly,but will you tube it, i have used it only few times,and it was quite good removing plastic connectors,without melting them!

You see the problem with bga work is for example you have to buy solder past or solder balls!, but the paste will go off within 6 months,and also you have to obtain different stencil for different chips, unless you do a lot of these then its worth doing the bga work! thnx for the you tube link,never thought to look in there!

[erniez]

use irda staion for big proccesor with bga....
work like a charm....
i have distroyed some pcb with hot air.... :(
i speak from my experience

I often do laptops and for example I've had few Toshibas where IRDA station was bending the PCB even if process was controlled with 100% attendance (normally for most things I'm using my custom profiles and don't care too much). Why I could not do those Tosh's with IRDA stays unexplained to me but i guess some ingredient of laminate was reacting badly to IR. That's why I rather stay with hot air if its about BGA, but as I said before - reworking plastic component's like RAM slots etc. infra-red is unbeaten.

[jp_olli]

I?ve done a lot of BGA-repairs in my previous job with Weller WQB 3000 BGA soldering station. Worked really well and with good results.

The company got bankrupt and we bought the station recently for my own company. Finally we get to do some serious bga-repairs. =)

[grinovsky]

The American company IBM has announced that it has developed a computer chip that can mimic human brain function
http://i43.servimg.com/u/f43/16/03/79/30/ibm10.jpg

[underbird_gsm]

jep darl ir rules , i ove my re8500 , hot air can damage some parts ,dark ir its clean etc..

[paul_12345]

to all the people saying hot air can do damage you are obviously doing something wrong (or have bad equipment)

I've got a sp-360c far better than re8500 as you've got a general area heater then top and bottom heater, you can apply most heat from the bottom heater and also supports the motherboard.

[darwins]

Hello Guys.

I'm trying some reball attempts again have a bunch of old damaged units to play with.

Images TC1797 & PCB attached, seamed easy with no damage, I thought !

I think I will need to get some proper equipment if we are going to follow this through to the point where I can remove with no damage, refit and make it work again :)

I was not very scientific I used an Aoyue 2738A+ with 2828 adaptor sat in an adjustable CSI 618 stand with a CSI 853A preheat under the board. Nothing fell off on the underside which was what I was expecting.

The pads on the PCB & TC1797 where gone before I started clearing up so it was not the cleaning which did the damage. What's your thoughts on the pad issue ?

Best Regards

Darwins.

[arvedo]

always well micro heat and remove suabe up, if you do not break that way always clues in that case you can pull switchboard friend.

[darwins]

Are you saying use IR station because the heat is monitored and can be removed once correct temps are reached ?

I think to much head caused the pad damage :smokin::smokin:

[paul_12345]

put a temperature prob under the bga heat untill around 225 then you really need a vacuum pen etc to cleanly lift the bga.

Then do not touch any pads once the chip is off when at this high temperature else the pads will damage.

Although most of the time the damaged pad on the PCB will be caused by too little heat either some balls are not fully melting or they are cooling by the time you are lifting the chip.

[darwins]

Thanks paul_12345

When you say probe under the BGA do you mean on the underside of pcb or attach on top the PCB next to the BGA ?

I guess I could attach one each side of pcb.

I have a vacuum pen on the Aoyue 2738A+ but never used it this time.

The heat needs to be moved to get access to lift, so a quick and smooth action is required to get this bit right, more speed and less haste as my old Dad used to say :)

One other question, do you mark around the BGA with some thing before removing because it don't look like refitting in correct place is going to be a walk in the park :)

[darwins]

Attached is the datasheet for a TC1797 and a quick reference to the Package Out Line it may be useful to some one.

I make this 0.6mm balls at a pitch of 1mm.

[paul_12345]

Thanks paul_12345

When you say probe under the BGA do you mean on the underside of pcb or attach on top the PCB next to the BGA ?

I guess I could attach one each side of pcb.

I have a vacuum pen on the Aoyue 2738A+ but never used it this time.

The heat needs to be moved to get access to lift, so a quick and smooth action is required to get this bit right, more speed and less haste as my old Dad used to say :)

One other question, do you mark around the BGA with some thing before removing because it don't look like refitting in correct place is going to be a walk in the park :)

you want a thermocouple then actually put the exposed wire under the bga, you need enough heat to be able to remove the heat and remove before it cools.

You could mark the pcb or use high temp tape to mark it seeing how theres no silk screen markings. You should also be able to see the balls on the pads on the edges.

[Meat-Head]

On topic

download some bbq paint or if desprate vht exhaust paint and mask and sprayboard for template markings

do you have a fabrication company with thick people that can plasma or laser alluminimum out for template

your crasy playing with chip like that, yes took them off but inly fir educational ir entertainment purposes only

[darwins]

Meat if it was made by man it can be fixed by man :)

Lots & lots of patients and time to spare, can we do it............ Yes we can :)

[Meat-Head]

So what your saying is the copper and gold tracks came out the ground, the silicon sand came out the ground fir the chips, the tin and lead out the ground. The electructy fir yiur lights and soldering irin from coal FROM POLAND ground

so if your desprate apple juice for flux out the grkund. So

WHERE THE HELL DOES THE FIBER BOARD COME FROM?

[darwins]

I like your positive take meat.

Lots of ground going on though so a short to GROUND .. Don't panic I'm gona keep me feet firmly on the ground but strain me fibre to learn this ;)

[Meat-Head]

I hate editing posts, the gas for your soldering iron comes from, oil, from the ground

so if you fail with this job, dig a hole and bury it.

what are you doing and why even think to seriously change this chip?

[darwins]

Good question.

I do some work for a few guys who buy late smashed cars. Often the ecu's have damaged cases.
They give us a used replacment part and we take the data ftom the damaged part and clone the used part where possible so the car ident remains correct.

Tricore stuff is giving me a problem because it is not so easy to simply clone.

[Meat-Head]

Tricore go pester ecutuners on here

[soxten]

I have desolder and solder some tc1796.
But I would like to hear what temps and stages you use.

My machin is a Scotle IR-360 V3
Lower IR heat I use 125
Lower air heat 150 (center blowing under mcu)
Upper IR in 3-stages (165.195,225)

This is a way for me that i dont dropp components off from pcb underside.

[soxten]

No one as can tell me about temps when doing BGA?

[Meat-Head]

No one as can tell me about temps when doing BGA?

not enought channce of breaking something, too much chance of burning something

i set my heatstaion to 380 DC for normal hotair and 400 DC when remong eeprom for first time off bosch ecu

[morgano]

One good "gold rule" is not increase temp more than 4 degree centigrade per second, then when you reach temp that melts the solder used in the pcb just lift the component.

[frick]

I can give you some tips...

1st - Get a good IR (ceramic, dark IR) soldering Machine
2nd - Pre Heat and Bottom Heat are the most important.
3rd - Upper heat cannot be too much temperature. It's easier to damage the chip than the MB.

Some people prefer hot air for BGA, i prefer IR... Cleaner and easier.

Regards,
MCDC
Hello,
Can you point me in right direction in my case:
I need to desolder and solder back with BGA reablling machine one " intel 28F256J3C35 " memory chip and my BIG problem is that chip not have on PCB any mark or fitting points.
Can you help me please with some tips how i can mark PCB before desolder to canot wipe that mark with isoprophilic alcoohol because i need to mark a place on PCB->desolder chip->clean PCB with alcoohol->solder back the chip in original position and location.

Thanks in advance!

[soxten]

Frick: Normaly I feel how it`s fitting in pos.
I often take some pictures befor I desolder.
The bga balls find there places when you start heating it up.
If you need to mark you can use the red glu for pcb,

[frick]

Thnaks " soxten " for your quick reply, please let me know exctly how is called that " red glue " when where i can find it to buy.

Regards,
Frick

[soxten]

Is it any how doing BGA work on ecu in here on DK?
I have done some ecu but need to exchange info and tips about temp and time for tricore mcu.

I have now a Simos Pcr2.1 and need to move mcu from broken to used.
It has gone 1 year since last time I used my machine.... :)