Hi to everyone, my Mercedes W203 Project and Star Developer Mode..

[cyberflex]

Hello everybody,

I am so happy to have found you all.

I am currently studying again, later in life, want to go into the medical field. Need to revisit A levels, I did them when I was a very different person in my younger days, (am 34 now) just did not study enough, in later life you realise many things and for me it is time to stop regretting and be proactive, get back and do something about it

I am really into cars, as a hobby and have a W203 Mercedes C320, 2001, it has been in the family from new, it was totally standard up until June last year, when it was fully facelifted externally, by this I mean, Xenons to Bixenons, facelift tail-lights, mirror indicators, front bumper, grill e.t.c.
At the same time I got the car resprayed in Obsidian Black, it was Jasper blue.

It came out really well, but now I have caught the modding bug...

I want to do the W203 facelift centre console, with updated climate control, UCP e.t.c.
The above has been done many times before around the world and is almost plug and play.

The bit that I need advice on is the instrument cluster, I have the older 1/2 moon type and want to go to a W203 facelift type, I have searched high and low, it is not straight forward, for some reason people tend to go with a W209 cluster, I guess the version coding may be more straight forward.

My car being a 2001 will need the newer tank senders called MAPPS, I have looked into this and it will be done.

If not, anybody on here willing to give coding/mileage transfer to newer cluster e.t.c. a shot?
From everything I have read, you need a good grasp of technical German in order to get things done in Developer Mode, I think there may be people on here who have that, I have read the sticky that is on here with various developer mode tutorials in order to enable things.

Just confused, do I buy Star or do I get someone to code for me?

I have looked/talked to so many people who are unwilling to take on such a coding task in the UK. Coding a facelift cluster into a prefacelift car is very difficult, mileage will be an issue as the EIS on the facelift cars have a CGW, my car does not and may need a new EIS/wiring changes from a W209 or someone with a mileage programmer after an initial adaptation process, again, from what I have read using Google translate on a German forum.

Also, it will need custom SCN coding from what I understand, not having Star, I really can't say with any confidence what it involves coding wise and even module wise (may have to update modules)

I plan to do things slowly over a period, the car is not a daily driver anymore, so down time is acceptable.

There is a person in the Netherlands, who is a genius, I guess people know him and his work, also another one in Australia.

But would like to do this locally in the UK.

Any help/advice would be appreciated.
Thanks
Johnathan

(copied and pasted from ''Introduce yourself'')

[chakahafed]

U dont need to buy t30 or delll to make star work !
U need only mux + labtop with rs232 port !
For developer : just make the diag work then will help u to get the dev mode !
Regards

[yriy66]

how do you see the budget of the event? change will have all the power and cable.

[cyberflex]

how do you see the budget of the event? change will have all the power and cable.

Hi Yriy,

I want to buy the best MUX e.t.c. that I can, I want to have a star diagnosis kit that I can trust, can you recommend any seller that will sell me a good MUX/Cables?

If you mean the cluster swap, I will spend what I need to, I have already bought a brand new virgin cluster from a Mercedes parts specialist, all I need now is 2 MAPPS fuel senders, add 1 wire to a specific plug on the rear SAM and some specific coding with developer. The old fuel senders are 4 pin, the new MAPPS senders are 5 pin from my understanding.

There is a German forum that has all the information, I am using Google translate...

Also from all the reading I have done on the forums, it depends on the part number of my rear SAM, if it will take the coding to change FUEL SENDERS=OLD SENDERS into FUEL SENDERS=MAPPS, with star.

If the rear SAM is too old/early it will not take the coding,then I will need to update the rear SAM for a more recent part number.

Here is a link to a youtube video, it shows a guy from a German forum who has a W203 2001, it is showing some moments soon after he removed his old cluster (1/2 moon ugly orange thing) and installed the new W203 facelift cluster, everything works except fuel guage and original KM travelled.

His cluster was used before I think, so the car shows the donor car Km, I need to hack the odo to get this right I think, EIS in my older 2001 car will not communicate mileage to facelift cluster I think.... Not without maybe some special developer commands with DAS.

Mercedes introduced MAPPS fuel senders in 2002, my car was built August 2001, so I think I will need the newer MAPPS senders.

W203 MOPF Tacho in vorMOPF Funktionstest - YouTube

His fuel guage does not work, also coding does not look optimal from this video. He does not have Star, he just plugged in and that is it, not a bad result..

Yriy, I am not an expert, just interested to do this, can you/anyone tell me where to buy a decent Star diagnosis kit with good quality MUX and cables, even a dedicated laptop with all software installed already????

Any ideas, please help...

How about the Chinese stuff, some must be good???

Yriy, I think you know Star diagnosis and Mercedes very well, any advice would be appreciated.

Have you done this conversion on a W203?

Thanks.

[yriy66]

this is the first thing to establish and join ZGW.second to replace the front and connect the SAM.third set on the computer WIS-see wiring.I bought the C4 in China. if you want I can give a link to the seller.

[chakahafed]

Hi Yriy,

I want to buy the best MUX e.t.c. that I can, I want to have a star diagnosis kit that I can trust, can you recommend any seller that will sell me a good MUX/Cables?

If you mean the cluster swap, I will spend what I need to, I have already bought a brand new virgin cluster from a Mercedes parts specialist, all I need now is 2 MAPPS fuel senders, add 1 wire to a specific plug on the rear SAM and some specific coding with developer. The old fuel senders are 4 pin, the new MAPPS senders are 5 pin from my understanding.

There is a German forum that has all the information, I am using Google translate...

Also from all the reading I have done on the forums, it depends on the part number of my rear SAM, if it will take the coding to change FUEL SENDERS=OLD SENDERS into FUEL SENDERS=MAPPS, with star.

If the rear SAM is too old/early it will not take the coding,then I will need to update the rear SAM for a more recent part number.

Here is a link to a youtube video, it shows a guy from a German forum who has a W203 2001, it is showing some moments soon after he removed his old cluster (1/2 moon ugly orange thing) and installed the new W203 facelift cluster, everything works except fuel guage and original KM travelled.

His cluster was used before I think, so the car shows the donor car Km, I need to hack the odo to get this right I think, EIS in my older 2001 car will not communicate mileage to facelift cluster I think.... Not without maybe some special developer commands with DAS.

Mercedes introduced MAPPS fuel senders in 2002, my car was built August 2001, so I think I will need the newer MAPPS senders.

W203 MOPF Tacho in vorMOPF Funktionstest - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G57EwQCWDVs)

His fuel guage does not work, also coding does not look optimal from this video. He does not have Star, he just plugged in and that is it, not a bad result..

Yriy, I am not an expert, just interested to do this, can you/anyone tell me where to buy a decent Star diagnosis kit with good quality MUX and cables, even a dedicated laptop with all software installed already????

Any ideas, please help...

How about the Chinese stuff, some must be good???

Yriy, I think you know Star diagnosis and Mercedes very well, any advice would be appreciated.

Have you done this conversion on a W203?

Thanks.
Developer will not help u to correct millenage if u swap th cluster with other one
U need eeprom programmer to do this work !
And i dont think the w203 have a getway ! Mienage is stored in ezs + cluster
Regards

[cyberflex]

Developer will not help u to correct millenage if u swap th cluster with other one
U need eeprom programmer to do this work !
And i dont think the w203 have a getway ! Mienage is stored in ezs + cluster
Regards

Chaka Hi,

If cluster is new, why can't DAS correct mileage?



Thanks for the input regarding eeprom programmer for mileage correction, do we need to programme new cluster or new cluster + EZS at the same time?
I will need your advice when I reach this stage for sure :)

OK. This is what confuses me, in some of the forums I have done some reading on, people seem to say the 'facelift' W203 cars have a gateway built into the EZS.

The W203 ran from 2000 -2007, I believe the facelift was approximately model year 2005.

I have also read in a forum that the earliest facelift cars had a separate ZGW ( from 4-2004 to 11-2004 )

Then after this the ZGW was built into the EZS...

In a W203, I have read the ZGW is not so important, as it is used only for coding one option, which is TELEAID, it also serves a purpose for MOST ring configuration.

My earlier car had D2B audio components, I have an aftermarket Alpine unit now, with Alpine W203 CAN adaptor, so I have removed all Mercedes D2B components (Radio/CD Changer)

Unless I want to fit the new NTG2.5 HDD Comand from CLC model later, I will not need any configuration of MOST ring.

Again, I will repeat, I am not an expert, I have just spent many hours recently, reading in Mercedes forums so that I can make this cluster modification without problems.

I need help for sure from you guys. I have never used DAS/Star before....

In fact, you have already helped me, so thanks guys.

[chakahafed]

If the cluster was never used befor it will get automaticly milenage from ezs
Or myebe u will need star to adapt it .but its not hard

[Officer305]

Hi, This is my experience: Car I tried with was a W203 2001 270 cdi. My son now has it. I obtained a new type ( Round Clock )
The dash was brand new. Had not been coded in anyway. I also got the two mapps fuel sensors for the fuel tank. You are correct about the wiring. You need to run an extra wire to the rear sam. I have a C3 Mux and IBM 30 laptop running 05/2010 Xentry/ Das software in with developer mode activated. I put the new dash in the car and wired up the tank sensors. After changing coding in rear sam with star the fuel gauge worked ok. The only thing that didnt work was the total miles travelled. Just the usual -------- in the display. I tried to program it with Star but it wouldnt take up the readings of the ECU. Mileage/Vin etc. My friend is a Mercedes mechanic who has his own garage and all the genuine Merc kit.

It wouldnt work with that either. Spent hours on it. The only thing we noticed is that when you switched the ignition off the mileage on the speedo would show for a few seconds till it went off. He also checked out the dash and confirmed it was virginal.

I have spoke to a few garages that do recalibration of the merc clocks and so far nobody has been able to tell me how to do it or what it takes to do it. Spent months on it. There is a entry on Kaos here that a guy took a cgw from another car wired it into the can/ the loom/ nearside passenger side on a w203 2002 and said he was able to program a newer type dash. He doesnt how ever reply to any questions put to him.

He said he then took the cgw out and it all worked ok?

I put the old dash back in. Its working fine. I would love to be able to update to the newer dash. I bought a newer low mileage C class that had the newer dash. 270 cdi. Have put the digital heater controls and recirc pump in it. Fitted heated pads in the front seat and put the proper merc switches/loom for same in the switch area. Fitted stainless steel sport exhaust system with AMG exhaust finnishers and chipped it. KN air filter.It has the sport package on it so the brakes are Brembo. I have done a few things to it as well. Pioneer Sat Nav system. Digital TV,Dab radio, reversing camera etc etc. Monitors in the headrests. Carbon fibre round all the metal silver work on the dash and the doors. Going to tint the windows next. A work in progress.
Goes like a rocket.

If you find out how to do it I would be obliged if you tell me how?

If there is any other way I can help let me know.
Thanks.

[chakahafed]

Hi, This is my experience: Car I tried with was a W203 2001 270 cdi. My son now has it. I obtained a new type ( Round Clock )
The dash was brand new. Had not been coded in anyway. I also got the two mapps fuel sensors for the fuel tank. You are correct about the wiring. You need to run an extra wire to the rear sam. I have a C3 Mux and IBM 30 laptop running 05/2010 Xentry/ Das software in with developer mode activated. I put the new dash in the car and wired up the tank sensors. After changing coding in rear sam with star the fuel gauge worked ok. The only thing that didnt work was the total miles travelled. Just the usual -------- in the display. I tried to program it with Star but it wouldnt take up the readings of the ECU. Mileage/Vin etc. My friend is a Mercedes mechanic who has his own garage and all the genuine Merc kit.

It wouldnt work with that either. Spent hours on it. The only thing we noticed is that when you switched the ignition off the mileage on the speedo would show for a few seconds till it went off. He also checked out the dash and confirmed it was virginal.

I have spoke to a few garages that do recalibration of the merc clocks and so far nobody has been able to tell me how to do it or what it takes to do it. Spent months on it. There is a entry on Kaos here that a guy took a cgw from another car wired it into the can/ the loom/ nearside passenger side on a w203 2002 and said he was able to program a newer type dash. He doesnt how ever reply to any questions put to him.

He said he then took the cgw out and it all worked ok?

I put the old dash back in. Its working fine. I would love to be able to update to the newer dash. I bought a newer low mileage C class that had the newer dash. 270 cdi. Have put the digital heater controls and recirc pump in it. Fitted heated pads in the front seat and put the proper merc switches/loom for same in the switch area. Fitted stainless steel sport exhaust system with AMG exhaust finnishers and chipped it. KN air filter.It has the sport package on it so the brakes are Brembo. I have done a few things to it as well. Pioneer Sat Nav system. Digital TV,Dab radio, reversing camera etc etc. Monitors in the headrests. Carbon fibre round all the metal silver work on the dash and the doors. Going to tint the windows next. A work in progress.
Goes like a rocket.

If you find out how to do it I would be obliged if you tell me how?

If there is any other way I can help let me know.
Thanks.
As i sead millenage is in ezs + dash
U have to open the new dash and read the eeprom inside and post it here . But u need eeprom programmer like upa or xprog ......
If u dont have programmer , then forget aboit the ------- in dash

[Officer305]

Hi, As stated I have a brand new Virgin Dash. (Clock type). Are you saying that if I get the Xprog. Then open the new dash read the coding and send it to you, you will be able to give me a dump. That will allow my star to communicate with the newer type dash and able to adapt it so it works after replacing the half moon shape?

Do you know why it wont adapt as they usually do. I had to replace the original dash as the leds ect etc packed in. It was a virgin half moon shape dash. It was straight forward to adapt it.

I think this would be interesting to Jonathan as well as we have discussed it. Thanks.

[MarkPRP]

CyberJ.. Hey

What took you so long to find us?

:)

Mark :)

[cyberflex]

Mark Hi,

Yep, took ages, but so glad i'm here, feel like I will get somewhere now.

You know your stuff, what is your input on the cluster upgrade?

Cheers buddy.

EDIT: BEING THICK!!!! Did not realise it was you. Cheers for the conversation yesterday.

[cyberflex]

This seems to cover everything, need to do a fair bit to get it perfect in a pre-facelift W203.

DIY 2009 CLC ICM ( Cluster ) into older CL203 or w203 - MBWorld.org Forums (http://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w203/354333-diy-2009-clc-icm-cluster-into-older-cl203-w203.html)

May just try the cluster....

[cyberflex]

Just did a search for hkirov, it turns out he is on here...

http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/f174/update-cluster-w203-154334/?highlight=cluster

http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/f174/mercedes-dash-calculation-152454/?highlight=cluster

RESULT!!

Also communicated with Sebastian in Germany, he made the youtube video above, things are looking better for all those struggling with this mod... :))

[Bastor]

Hi there,

iam Sebastian from the German Mercedes Board. The Vid above shows my switched AI/Cluster from the W203 Facelift ... all the things that not working are planned and can be easily handled if you know what it causes.

The most People switch the AI/Cluster from a W209 pre-Facelift because the AI/Cluster from it communicate with the Old Headunits etc. - even the Fuel guage... only the coding and Kilometers have to be set.

The "Problem" with the W203 facelift AI/Cluster is, that u have to change the Headunit and all other controls in the Middle to make it work properly. Around 10/2001 (year) the Fuel Sensors are changed ... u have to switch to MAPPS Sensors, but mostly the old rear SAM can be stay .. there need only a additional Wire and the new sensors.

etc. etc.

You have read the big thread in the german Board... nothing to add.


I read this thread later that day and try to answer ... the problem with CODING and change the Kilometers is some special problem... the most people, even in germany, doenst have a Star Diag with developer Mode ... and the ones which have one cant handle with it ;)


(Excuse my bad gramma and english .. long time ago i have to write some longer textpages in english ;) )


Greets from Germany
Sebastian

[cyberflex]

Sebastian HI!!!!

Thank you so much for getting involved!

You have done a lot of very impressive stuff to your W203, you should start a thread on here to show people what you have achieved, it really is incredible in my honest opinion, many people talk(normally rubbish) about doing various upgrades,you have done the opposite and actually COMPLETED them, I have seen it with my own eyes!

The greatest thing you have done is educate people with your experiences, something that is seldom on forums in my opinion, too many people like to keep information to themselves, which is why I am glad to be part of Kaos where it seems most people help each other.

I'm glad you are with us on this thread and look forward to your input when you have time.

Great news, having Sebastian on the thread is a MASSIVE lift for me! Good news!

[hkirov]

Hi guys , sorry that I haven't been active for a long time but i totally got disappointed of some forum members in some other forums and i decided to stop sharing any info on my work but thinks may change :)

[hkirov]

Also cyberj could you send me the pass for the photo album you send me so i could take a look.

And i will try to help you with what i can

[cyberflex]

hkirov, I just want to thank you publicly for being around, I totally know where you are coming from when you speak of other forums, which is why I am here now, I never posted elsewhere very much, but in an attempt to gain help with adding a facelift cluster into a pre-facelift car I read many hours on certain forums.

People really do not want to help much when it comes to face lifting/retrofitting in the W203, I do understand it is some peoples living, but then what is the point of forums??

Anyway I am very glad you are around, you are another person who has gone well beyond many peoples opinions on the limitations of retrofitting and in the process proved many people wrong!

Respect. :)

[Officer305]

Hi Chaps, Spent a bit of time with a guy who recalibrates dashed for a living. He says the reason it doesn't work is that the chips in the Dash heads are different. (I think we all new that) The newer and later EZS/EIS may have different versions of software running? May also be different Chips in them? As we know newer type dashes and EZS can be programmed for mileage without taking the dash out where as with the older dash, unless you have Enigma then it comes out to be done.

Now my questions are: Is the guy on the right track? If so. Is it possible to reprogram the old EZS with the newer software or would newer EZS (with the newer software/firmware) be adapted to work in the older vehicle? The first option being the preferred one? The fuel sensor isn't a problem as in my early attempts I put the mapps sensors in the tanks and rewired the rear sam. Only one extra wire for a Diesel anyway.

What chip is in the 209? If its the older type as in the 203 or just compatible with the older EZS? Software or other wise?



Thanks.

[smayer]

Hi Chaps, Spent a bit of time with a guy who recalibrates dashed for a living. He says the reason it doesn't work is that the chips in the Dash heads are different. (I think we all new that) The newer and later EZS/EIS may have different versions of software running? May also be different Chips in them? As we know newer type dashes and EZS can be programmed for mileage without taking the dash out where as with the older dash, unless you have Enigma then it comes out to be done.

Now my questions are: Is the guy on the right track? If so. Is it possible to reprogram the old EZS with the newer software or would newer EZS (with the newer software/firmware) be adapted to work in the older vehicle? The first option being the preferred one? The fuel sensor isn't a problem as in my early attempts I put the mapps sensors in the tanks and rewired the rear sam. Only one extra wire for a Diesel anyway.

What chip is in the 209? If its the older type as in the 203 or just compatible with the older EZS? Software or other wise?



Thanks.

Are many versions of EZS, w211_hc12,w211_st12, w204, etc. You must respect the software version. Can not upgrade software. If you know the number of EZS A 203.......... , It's easy to find the chip inside.

[tapio89]

Hello!

I updated my -01 W203 mercedes -08 W209 IC and everyting is working right. Like plug&play :)

Before that i tryed to install facelift gauge, but it cant be coded with star. Car must have central gateway module to get correct connection with star.

Btw. If you cant pair gauge to car (it do not show kilometers) dont drive it. It update EZS about 1 000 000 miles.

I drived, and now my IC shows 999999km and EZS 1 599 900.
Now i have problem to get correct km to IC+EZS.

[cyberflex]

Tapio Hi,

Thanks for coming in on this. Really appreciate it :)

Some questions...

Did you use a new or second hand W209 cluster?

Did all the menus in your old cluster appear immediately or did they need coding with star?

Infact the biggest question is did DAS recognise the W209 cluster or did you have to use developer mode to access it?
I guess if it was a used one then the above is not as important because some coding would have existed in the W209 cluster already..

I really believe to get the mileage correct you need to use a pre-facelift W209 cluster (The one that would have come on a CLK with the older style center console/AC/Upper control panel. A cluster that was used with D2B audio, YES, I understand that the D2B or MOST does not come into play BUT I believe the CAN protocols are different in the D2B based/prefacelift CLK W209 clusters and this is the ONLY type that can be made to fully work.

In order to make the facelift W203 or facelift W209 clusters work in a prefacelift W203 a central gateway needs to be introduced as there is a heavy reliance on the gateway, the mileage will never be corrected according to everything I have read and been told.

In order to make a facelift W203 cluster or a facelift W209 cluster work completely it is my belief that a central Gateway from a Vito has to be introduced as well as having the correct steering column, I have been in touch with a guy called Miro and another guy called Steve, both are awesome retrofit specialists and BOTH say the same thing and to be honest I believe them.

SO guys....

I am going to look on EPC and find myself the part number for a prefacelift D2B based W209 CLK cluster and work from there, this is the easiest option or make a trip to the Netherlands and get a facelift Cluster as well as all the other stuff to make a facelift cluster work 'Perfectly' installed.

I am considering both options, it is very difficult for me to go down the facelift W203 route as nobody has really made the knowledge of adding a Vito central gateway to a prefacelift W203 common knowledge.

Very sad, really wanted to pursue this, all is not lost let's see, I will keep everyone informed.

I believe Sebastian in Germany is the only independant person working on putting a facelift W203 cluster in prefacelift W203 at this time, he is trying with developer mode, I really want him to succeed and am always following his posts on DB forum using google translate.

[3mexVK]

Hi guys!

It's amazing to see people talking like this :D

Just to confirm, CAN communication protocols ARE, and I repeat, ARE different in preMOPF and MOPF versions of IC's. So, it's unlikely to see that kind of integration because of protocol/circuit functionality.

(MOPF = modellpflege = Facelift)

To clear something, the cluster value is refreshed every 500km, as I recall, in a way that the DAS-X system checks all relevant values, meaning the ones in IC and EZS, and compares them. After that, the higher value is stored in IC.

Naturally, that applies to compatible IC, so there is no way that old CAN can work with new CAN.

3 years ago, I have tried to fit a IC to a MOPF CLK, and ran into problems. The solution was a MOPF IC instead the preMOPF that was given to me. I remember that I saw the coding for a CAN version while I was trying to do that.

So, in my opinion, the older CAN IC from W209 should work on W203 with or without ZGW.

Best of luck!

greetz!

I forgot to mention, the MOPF IC that was used, but was refurbished and came virginized, so I did the initial coding and set the odometer value. Everything worked like a charm.

[tapio89]

Hello!

I buyed reseted second-hand cauge. At ebay. :)

I have new gen audio20-radio (which includes internal bluetooth&mp3 player) so that is why i use 2008 IC.
It shows audio&phone correctly.

You can configure all same menus than orig. IC. By star.

And i repeat, all functions all working right, and you can test&config star. (you have select w209-model)
When you go in the unit adaptions, it ask which model year car is. That will fit newer 209 IC to older 203.
(rear SAM you can change what is fueltank-sensor type, MOPF or no)

Now i have changed used EZS+ESL to my car. CDI-ECU is cars own and that is reseted and fitted new VIN. This is my way get EZS miles changed. :)
New is problem is to get 209 IC reseted/ changed mileage lower than 1000km to fit new VIN to gauge.
Tacho Pro wont talk to this new type IC, so will go prommer shop.


Regards Tapio

[cyberflex]

WOW!!!

Tapio, thanks, it looks like you are almost there, just need to get the IC virginalized and I think then you need to drive until the IC shows 999999 or similar, then you will be able to adopt the mileage from EZS with Star.

Not sure about this, as google translate is not great, but it is what I think it says..

Good luck and report back with a success story for us buddy!!!:proud:

[yriy66]

maybe it will help you BMWTOOLS.INFO • ???????? ???? - Mercedes Kombi Protocol Converter (http://bmwtools.info/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2073)

[HannuS]

Hi

What is the German forum name? I'm looking and studying same things as you guys here. I'm old Dreambox hobbyist so German language had come familiar.