How the ecu gets 70v to the injectors?

[ominimicu]

I am bulding this injector tester for common rail. I already designed the pulse generator, now i need to amplify 12v or so to 70v in order to feed the injector. i dont have a 70v power supply.

How does the ecu amplify 12v to get 70v or more in other cases???

[smirnoff_rules]

they r about TAT Power Supply variable o/p-24v 50v 60 70v (8 items) | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TAT-Power-Supply-variable-o-p-24v-50v-60-70v-8-items-/320885982569?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement _Equipment_ET&hash=item4ab64b8569) he might sell one

[ominimicu]

thanks mate, but i am looking for the cheap way :D i was thinking a boost converter, but it would supply me to few amps. How many amps does the injector need?

[smirnoff_rules]

thanks mate, but i am looking for the cheap way :D i was thinking a boost converter, but it would supply me to few amps. How many amps does the injector need?

dont know then ,, but his selling 8 of them for 100 notes ,, he isnt going to sell them . l bet u can get one for 20 notes

[smokey08]

Rip apart an old broken isuzu EDU ( from a 1.7DTI astra) and see what you can nick out of it.

[jmcartec]

At the ecu's we find step-up converters
So if you want a cheap one, try to find at ebay these
converters, but as you will not find 70v, just add two
devices: one 48v and other 24v (48+24=72)

Or you can make your own...:banghead:

[ominimicu]

i am trying to make my own step up converter (boost converter)

I ll try first to follow the injector plug way up in the ecu..see how it does it.

[PierreTheron]

i am trying to make my own step up converter (boost converter)

I ll try first to follow the injector plug way up in the ecu..see how it does it.


So why not start with an 80volt output transformer from the AC main supply .. Then just add your pulse generator ?????????/
:beheaded:

[florinyes]

So why not start with an 80volt output transformer from the AC main supply .. Then just add your pulse generator ?????????/
:beheaded:


Cause he's looking for even a cheaper way?? Or maybe the way the ecu does it??

[cqae]

the ecu captures the emf generated by the moving of the injector & stores it internally in capacitors

[ominimicu]

I cant find a cheap 80v power supply, or transofrmer. 70, 80 v it s not a common value. And i am also currious how the ecu does it

[Dunker]

If you don't know about switched mode power supplies I'd be buying one instead and modifying that to cope with the snap current that an injector draws so it won't affect the PSU.

[Meat-Head]

I agree with smokey.

OK, on AND off topic:-.

Right find a parking lot, even one with a big yellow taxi in it.

Find some boy racer with a large stero, rip his amp out.

Right, rip the lid off, you will see at the bottom is a funky chip, this drives
4 FETS - these fets then switch a transformer which gives out (i think) 30 volts.

OFF TOPIC:-

Most house hold steroes the amps are 30 volts.

ON AND OFF TOPIC:-

OK, sorry my copy of brain.exe has crashed tried to install brain-2.1.exe - just comes up "your to stupid for this programme".

Right ok, so look at the below photo (sorry use your own numbers)

we need 240 volts and we are in Emerica with 110 volts, but we only need enough power to run a router to get DK.

So what we do is this.

JUST PRETEND THE BLUE/BROWN IS OUTPUT YELLOW/BLUE INPUT

Grab one of these Chassis Mounting Transformers : Mains Transformers : Maplin Electronics (http://www.maplin.co.uk/chassis-mounting-transformers-454504) and wire like this

http://www.amveco.com/pics/step-up_autotransformer.gif


So stick the netural on one of the yellows, 110 on the blue 240 out of your other yellow.

Now grab your amplifer, use a volt meter go figure.

If i was you, would find a SID801 ECU OR a Fiat EDC15C7 - or EDC15C2 - *THINK* the inverter is seperate

[fluorescent]

The ecu not supply always constant 70v she make it like a pulse excitacion suplied by the transistors to the injector solenoid.
So take Autodata and find all sensors, try to simulate the sensors, take immo off see what happent.

[smayer]

the ecu captures the emf generated by the moving of the injector & stores it internally in capacitors

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

You find the Perpetual motion mate.

[jmcartec]

In fact when i read just think the same as you Smayer!

:adore:

[jnoroeste]

Hi M8?s,

I have been trying the same, all common rail ecus works by the same way, they use coils and condensers to store the energy, only the peak is up to 80volts and 20 amp after this, hold only needs 40 volts and 12 amps, while the capacitors are discharging, commonly ecus are working with two of these , one for cilinders 1-4 and other for cyl 2-3, this allow enough charging time to capacitors.

Regards.

[ominimicu]

can i get a picture inside the ecu..which are the capacitors and coils?

[Meat-Head]

can i get a picture inside the ecu..which are the capacitors and coils?


OFF TOPIC:- BUT 100% RELEVENT

LAUGHING AT YOU MATE

Basic Amplifier Repair (http://www.bcae1.com/repairbasicsforbcae1/repairbasics.htm)

http://www.bcae1.com/repairbasicsforbcae1/images/IMG_4849b.jpg

[rideon]

I am bulding this injector tester for common rail. I already designed the pulse generator, now i need to amplify 12v or so to 70v in order to feed the injector. i dont have a 70v power supply.

How does the ecu amplify 12v to get 70v or more in other cases???
:idea:
Cheapest way.....EVER!
Download from scrapyard :
1.old car battery
2.engine control module with plug and some harness attached to it
3 crankshaft sensor
then
download from DK i##o off file to match your ecu
Put all the wires together and stick a drilling machine with a magnet attached in front of the rpm sensor...
:idea:

[smokey08]

:idea:
Cheapest way.....EVER!
Download from scrapyard :
1.old car battery
2.engine control module with plug and some harness attached to it
3 crankshaft sensor
then
download from DK i##o off file to match your ecu
Put all the wires together and stick a drilling machine with a magnet attached in front of the rpm sensor...
:idea:

Not a bad idea, but I see a few problems. You would have to trick the ecu into thinking there is enough rail pressure and it also needs a camshaft sensor signal or injectors wont open.

[Meat-Head]

Not a bad idea, but I see a few problems. You would have to trick the ecu into thinking there is enough rail pressure and it also needs a camshaft sensor signal or injectors wont open.


OK, on that score, go to your local charity shop, go and shop lift

a frog in a blender - you will find an alluminum wheel, belt and output shaft.

attatch your cam sensor to that and your lumpy stick sensor to the top - not a 2:1 horacshio, but you might find P0340 but they will be synconised.

[ominimicu]

ok so a good engieneer from idiada showed me how it is amplified. not so easy but still. from 12v+ a fast transistor lets the current pass through an inductor and on to a capacitor, and by the use of a diode..it never lets the capacitor discharge, but keep it reaching more power...when it has reached enough it lets it discharge.

This happens so fast....like 00000.1 sec cannot be home made. a MCu controlls the whole process. so best to get 70v power supply

[digitaltech]

just build a simple dc-dc boost run capacitor
Simplest Ever DC-DC Boost 12v to 73v (http://www.instructables.com/id/Simplest-Ever-DC-DC-Boost-12v-to-73v/)

watch for W draw

[rideon]

Not a bad idea, but I see a few problems. You would have to trick the ecu into thinking there is enough rail pressure and it also needs a camshaft sensor signal or injectors wont open.
You're right.....forgot to mention the camshaft sensor sicked in front of the drilling machine....and the other 3-5 potentiometers
.... for rail pressure/water temp/fuel temp/boost sensor and so on...:idea:
Just use your imagination....or better yet use MH imagination!:bounce: i really like this one!!:

OK, on that score, go to your local charity shop, go and shop lift

a frog in a blender - you will find an alluminum wheel, belt and output shaft.

attatch your cam sensor to that and your lumpy stick sensor to the top - not a 2:1 horacshio, but you might find P0340 but they will be synconised.
Creative problem solving !!!
He didn't mentioned anything about '555 timer circuits'-nothing 'creative' there!!!!:roflmao:

[Meat-Head]

Creative problem solving !!!
He didn't mentioned anything about '555 timer circuits'-nothing 'creative' there!!!!:roflmao:


MY BAD, i was posting a tweet.

http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/members/81877-meat-head/albums/just-testing-see-if-works/3403-33v-converter.jpg

OK, ON TOPIC:-

Smokey mate, you got a FULL working copy of Brain-2.1.EXE

So, you find a parking lot and rob a bicycle, 26" moutain bike

Somehow using an angle grinder, an electric scooter (chain driven) childs toy, a few magnets.

Remove the valve, place a magnet, where the inner core is, place TWO magnets 180 Deg apart.

Inner is crank sensor, outer is lumpty stick sensor

sorry it's gone wicked thread a while back, somebody made a 'engine' for a ONLY testing BMW ecu's and modifiyng them - had a VVT wheel with a disc on it, low poster over in ecu section couple of years old but was bumped, can't find it.

ON TOPIC:-


Damm it, just notice the orhinal posters thanks botton has broke.

will let him get that fixed fisr before carrying on.

[fluorescent]

I like to see who will make the circuits with that 555, lol,this is not petrol injector to open it with 12v, there is a high voltage there to open that solenoide.

[Meat-Head]

Tell you what guys, when we see a few more presses of the 'thanks' botton, thought of a REAL cunning plan, one that not even Baldrick could invent.

PERFECT for this job 100% ish.

ominimicu (http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/members/133668-ominimicu/)
DK Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 711
Thanks: 9
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Uploads: 1
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[rideon]

I like to see who will make the circuits with that 555, lol,this is not petrol injector to open it with 12v, there is a high voltage there to open that solenoide.
:listen:
Thought i made myself clear, the 555 part was the 'not so creative solution'to emulate crankshaft sensor....of course you can use some CDB counter and simulate camshaft too...

[Meat-Head]

:listen:
of course you can use some CDB counter and simulate camshaft too...

A what counter?

If you think about it, you need some thought on the matter, when the orginal poster has figured out which is the tahnks buttom ,i'll explain what and why.

[ominimicu]

i already did the pulse generator using a 555 IC. and i got 70v using a power supply. i was just looking for a more compact version of the 70v supply.

The point here was not how to get 70v. It was just how the ECU does it, using small components not a bulk power supply.

i dont understant why am i being laughed at and criticized. About a thank btton, because i didnt thanked ?

Thank you for taking your time to reply.
Sorry for my bad english.

[Meat-Head]

i.

i dont understant why am i being laughed at and criticized. About a thank btton, because i didnt thanked ?

Thank you for taking your time to reply.


Yeah, here we all are, solving YOUR problem, and not getting thanks for it.

If you think about it,, can't be bothered to look, but Smokey08 has the BEST idea, if you think about what your doing, how and why.

think you best go find a parking lot somewhere. :captain:

[Meat-Head]

sorry late for wiork, this was thread i was jibber jabbering on about http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/f175/how-disassemble-mss52-dme-dump-help-needed-please-105464/index3.html#post760390

[rideon]

i already did the pulse generator using a 555 IC. and i got 70v using a power supply. i was just looking for a more compact version of the 70v supply.

The point here was not how to get 70v. It was just how the ECU does it, using small components not a bulk power supply.
Just trying to say that is much easier to simulate an engine run for a particulate ECU and test injectors
If you chose to build your own setup forget 555 timers and go for some professional signal generator....

:beer:

[Meat-Head]

Just trying to say that is much easier to simulate an engine run for a particulate ECU and test injectors



Course it is, think about it.

When the orginal poster figures out the thanks botton in ALL posts in here, i'll suggest something.

[rideon]

:ahhhhh::ahhhhh:my mistake........ forgot your issue with THE button:ahhhhh::ahhhhh:

[Meat-Head]

:ahhhhh::ahhhhh:my mistake........ forgot your issue with THE button:ahhhhh::ahhhhh:

Wasn't moaning about you, you help folks out with their shit, get no thanks and no help with your own shit!

[jnoroeste]

Hi M8?s,
I cant believe there are no more people interested in!

How do you test your common rail and PD inyectors?
magnetic & piezoelectrics? Measuring the returned fuel isn?t enough.

We need some circuit able to deal with this injectors for test & cleaning purposes.

An ecu estimulator will help for sure, and you should use diferent ecus for that, but I think all here are looking for an universal solution.

And is not only set crank signal, cams signal is prioritary for secuencial firing orders.

Only need the commonrail & pd injectors drivers circuit to do it.
Any one have the ecu internal schematic? Both electromagnetic & piezoelectric are wellcome.

I am sure , we could make it works.

Join the challenge!

[Mjolinor]

I made one using this as my starting point:

Injectors (http://www.crypton.co.za/Tto%20know/Actuators/injectors.html)

I then used a scope to save the pulses from an Astra diesel to check them and reproduced them using a PIC micro, some mosfets and some LC for the resonance to get the higher voltages.

Not rocket science, pretty basic stuff really. Not used it to test spray pattern on diesel injectors as I haven't got a high pressure pump I just used it to check that they did open and close.

They are not expensive to buy anyway, Darwin Diesels sell them as do Alibaba and a whole lot of other Chinese sites.

[jnoroeste]

Hi M8,

We know there are a lot for sale ,specially in south america.

But many of us wants to build our own, and add modules as we need.

I own Picoscope and could record all kind of signals, inductive, hall, 36-1, 60-2 , etc. but.. how to save this in a pic ?

Could you share any picture about the coil circuit?

Thanks.

[Meat-Head]

SO WHAT THE STORY MORNING GLORY

DAMM CAPS LOCK

[rideon]

SO WHAT THE STORY MORNING GLORY

DAMM CAPS LOCK
:roflmao:

M8,you're the MAN!!:thrasher:
although I'm not sure how many users heard of Oasis

:roflmao:

[xdamdamx]

Here is a link which may interest you (http://abumirza-myrobot.blogspot.com/2011/03/diesel-common-rail-system-pressure.html)

You don't actually need a supply voltage more than 12VDC.
Actually, just to lift the needle of injector, without fuel pressure hoses attached, 12VDC is enough to lift it.

[beloforte]

already there is a similar debate here!
>>http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/f152/injector-cr-simulator-219966/<<

[cjawahir]

the crank sensor and cam sensor must be in sync with each other , before you get proper pulse .

understanding how the electronic component work you can put it together to get the work done .

building power supply understanding electron flow , switching circuit .

basic electronic study is most important , as electron flow in a circuit it main goal is to return to its supply making a complete circuit .

cj