Citroen C3 HDI Non Start No Communication ECU

[Autowave]

Hi All,

I have a Citroen C3 UK 57 2008 1.4 HDI non start problem. I have connected Lexia and it communicates with everything but not injection (ECU). Fault code stored in the BSI is no communication with ECU (which I imagine is the main fault). When I try to start there is nothing. Checked the transponder, all the fuses. and they are ok.

So my questions are:

Which wire is the communication from BSI to ECU?

Is the main BSI under the hood (966405580) or the one behind glove box (9659285480)?

Is this ECU a common failure? Is there any repair guides?

Thank you in advance.

[genius76]

engine code? and full foult codes

[racin-snake]

BSI in the glovebox

BM34 under bonnet

can you com with abs and eps ?

and checked the maxi fuses under the bm34

[Autowave]

8HZ (DV4TD)

[genius76]

FAULT CODES?

[Autowave]

I've checked the maxi fuses they are fine. When I do a global test I get dialogue with ABS and EPS but when I try to go in to them I have no comms......looks like we are getting somewhere!

[busaman]

abs and bm34 give trouble on these link the can wires on the abs if all comes back abs is the problem.

[Autowave]

Fault codes:

BSI

Illumination of 3rd brake lamp open circuit
+
No communication with engine management ecu

Instrument Panel

Remote fault
Permanent fault
Engine Speed Information


Switch module under steering wheel no comms


Multifunction Screen
Permanent Fault
Absence f +permanent on display


That's all the codes

[Autowave]

When you say link the can wires, what do you exactly mean mate?

[busaman]

there are two wires goin in two coming out unplug the abs and link the twisted pairs do you have a wiring diagram.

[rachmach]

chek power of ecu or try with another.

[Autowave]

Yes I've got the diagram. I thought that's what you meant. I'll try in the morning and report. Thanks mate

[Dunker]

First of all strip the covering from the wires that go to the plugs on the ECU. Find out which are the power feeds (and earths). Give the power feed wires a good pull and see if any break. The wires on these nails tend to break inside their plastic coverings just outside the ECU (usually within a few inches). Alternatively, open ECU and check power feeds at the pins on the PCB with what you should be expecting. Sounds like one 12v will be missing.

[mcab]

I had this once before! Problem was BSI. I to could communicate with BSI. And all seemed to be ok! With it.

[busaman]

ive tapped the bsi with a hammer handle before now and everything works for a while (stuck relay ) give it a try.

[Autowave]

Hi all.

An update...

Joined the CAN lines of the ABS In/Out. But apart from no communication with the ABS Module everything seems to be the same. I have also given the BSI a tap!

So before I order a new BSI I will go with what Dunker and rachmach suggest and make sure power is in the correct locations.

mcabd and busaman - were you refering to the BSI in glovebox or BM34 under the hood?

Thanks

[busaman]

bsi is in the glovebox

[busaman]

have you checked the wiring to ecu from the bm34 they also give problems the double engine control relay is in there.

[Autowave]

Yes I'm just working through the wiring diagram, making sure I have continuity on all wires. Looks like the BSI is the culprit though...

Will keep you posted, thanks

[busaman]

have you got the rp no and vin does it have esp il look up the propper wiring diagram for you.

[Autowave]

N/S sticker reads:
11194CA
10540
EZWC
1184540

VIN: VF7FC8HZC28955568

Thanks

[busaman]

here is the diagram for your car.

[busaman]

would help if i attached it

[kuti]

ABS is a part of serial CAN bus system. It's not just link a twisted pair. Ther are end line resistors and it has to go through ABS system. Check your resitance between CAN lines on abs plug is it 60 or 120 ohm ?

[busaman]

trust me you can link the CAN wires on the abs to eliminate it as a problem ive done it several times.

a fault in the abs can cause all the modules to loose comms, ive seen it on c3 c4 c5 models.

[Meat-Head]

a fault in the abs can cause all the modules to loose comms, ive seen it on c3 c4 c5 models.


OFF TOPIC:

vectra C, Zafira B, Saab (?

[busaman]

OFF TOPIC:

vectra C, Zafira B, Saab (?

yes meaty can-bus can do strange things one module can show lots of errors on others. but pug /citroen with van-can can have one of the wires broken but still work with reduced perfomance but you wouldnt know it. until you ran a test on the can-bus.

[Autowave]

Thanks, I'll jump back on it today and report!

[Autowave]

I pushed this to the back of the garage, but back on it now. Wiring appears to be correct. So I've ordered a BSI. Hopefully that'll do the trick. Will report when it arrives. Thanks

[Autowave]

Just stripping the old unit out, its a 96 592 854 80 same as in Peugeot 207. Can these be code swapped?

[busaman]

no the immo code is stored there also if you plug it in the speedo jumps to the one with highest milage.

[Autowave]

So new unit only?

[racin-snake]

no you can swap the memory or virginise a second hand bsi and has the same hardware nos from the old bsi (if you have the tooling to do so)

reprogram bsi with lexia or something similar swapping the memory would be cheapest option if you have the equipment to do so

[Autowave]

Excellent thanks. Which eeprom holds the data? Or is it on a flash?

[perovuk]

Last month, I had the same problem with 206 1.4hdi,and you've tried all that,bsi ecu key from other car,but it did not help.at the end of the fault was very stupid.engine ecu he lost contact in plug(white and green wire) can bus

[Autowave]

Hi all,

I need to finish this car so I've got myself a known working BSI with the same part numbers. Can someone please help me as to how I can code swap them please?
Can it be done with upa?
I've attached images.

Thanks188297188298188299188300188301

[Meat-Head]

word on street says yes UPA 95160 - in the middle of the board.
Was having a late night discussion with Vic down the pub - were were discussing that for somereason not all the vechile data is stored in the EEPROM.

Best thing you can do is go stalk somebody from the milage IN-coreectopn dept. and ask for the pin soldering points.

so you can have a go but a bit dubious about sucking and blowing in-circuit.

[Autowave]

Cheers meat head, I'll have a gander around that section. Right after I smash a few more pints of Guinness down!

[maaxxyy]

mileage is stored in the atmel25128 on this bsi, immo i think is in the hc912. i have one which i'm still trying to sort out, but theres no data available for this bsi yet.
One thing i would be doing on this car is bridging the can lines at the abs pump, ones from ecu to abs and ones from bsi to abs and see if she starts!!!!!

[Shmortz]

few days ago I struggled with this problem, there was desoldered pins to GND in ECU, try to put GND at the ECU housing, will work if there is a problem ...

[Perryking]

I have same problem. What is the solution for this?

[Dunker]

Were the power feeds ok? In particular the EC relay control wire from ECU to fusebox. ECU switches this wire to GND to switch on the EC relay in the fusebox which then feeds the ECU with power.

[Perryking]

Can you explain more please? I don't find what wire or relay is.

Thanks

[Dunker]

As per your P.M. :

This isnt the diagram for your ECU but yours will be similar. The EC relay (engine control) is controlled by the ECU. Assuming your ECU has all its other power supplies that are OK (any perm live(s) and IGN live) then:

The ECU will pull wire 1229 via pin Af1 down to ground which turns the EC relay on. The EC relay then supplies power to wire 1203 which goes to Ah2 and Ag2. When these 2 have power the ECU is fully powered and will talk on the diagnostic. The EC relay will probably be built in to the engine fusebox and is not accessable. So you will need to have the right diagram for your ECU.

If no diagram available then look at manuals for things like FGTech or MPPS to give you an idea of what needs to be powered to get the ECU talking on the diagnostic.

Easiest way to test with the ECU plugs out of the ECU is to use a 21w bulb and use this to ground the pins you find that are live on the ECU plugs. A good live will light the bulb and if its a relay feed that needs earthing the low resistance in the bulb will earth the relay coil and you will hear it click. Once you have heard the relay click you are safe to earth the pin you are testing and then you can look for the new wires that have gone live with this relay energized. The bulb should light when testing these new live(s).

(You have scoped the CAN Bus lines to the ECU to make sure data is gettng to it?)

[Meat-Head]

Or feed the THICK blue or pink (NOT THIN OR GREEN/yellow) wires on fuel pump and stand back

crank and hit under fusebox with big wooden stick

[Perryking]

Thanks, but I tried with another BSM. Original BSM is B4, I tried with B3 and no chance.

Also this car come to me with a fuse number 8 burned. New fuse, another BSM and nothing. No diagnostic, eco mode and no strat. I will search for BSM B4.

See diagram and fuse 8 in picture 2.

[Perryking]

So today I changed Ecu, BSM, BSI and nothing, still the same problem.

[Dunker]

Then it has to be a broken wire, fusebox or green death inside a wire. Outer sheathing usually looks ok but has green death inside. Pulling the wire will find it eventually. Sometimes a digital meter will show 12v on a wire with green death but when its loaded up the voltage will drop.

[Meat-Head]

Dunker, when you doing pub quiz you put "verdigris"
you get more points than "green and flakey"

[Dunker]

What happens when its black death though? Or black and flakey. Or is that June Sarpong?

[gtcricardo]

Hi same problem
Solution for me : Change ABS works fine!

[Dunker]

Could well be. Thats why you need to scope CAN lines @ ECU. He could always unplug ABS and jumper the CAN lines.

[gtcricardo]

If i help press the magic buttons!!!:tranquillity:

[Perryking]

I see with osciloscope data in CAN wires in Ecu, but I don´t know if that data is ok.

I´ll try to jump CAN wires in ABS.

[Dunker]

If CAN waveforms look ok then surely ecu isnt powered correctly. Unless its one of those that uses CAN for inter module comms and K-Line for diag. Must be worth removing ECU and connecting on bench to make sure.

[Perryking]

Yes, this ECU SID804 have K-line for diag and CAN for ABS and BSI.

In bench ECU works ok and have diag by Kline, but not in car.

[wildatsun]

Had similar problem 2005 Berlingo 1.6hdi, eventually traced to bad engine bay harness, there is a GREY wire in it which is the EC relay trigger wire that runs from the brown (middle) ECU plug to the black plug in the underbonnet fusebox. I noticed when I touched the back of this grey wire in the black plug with the probe of a test lamp (grounded other end) the relay clicked and i could hear the various stepper motors and things on the engine wake up.

I spent a while trying to find where the break could be in this grey wire and gave up, I just soldered on a bypass from the ECU grey wire to the fuse box grey wire. Started fine after that and diag comms with ECU.

[crusader007]

Hi Guys, I am having what appears to be this exact same problem aal be it with a different car but I belive that Peugeot and citroen share parts the same parts. I have a Peugeot 1007, that I purchased for my son to learn to drive in.

Its been a nightmare since we purchased it. When we bought it, we parked it up for around 5 months, then when we came to use the car it wouldn't start. It would crank over but not start. I has a new battery put on it and it still wouldn't start.

So I paid an auto electrician to come and have a look, he fused bridged 2 wires in the fuse box in the engine bay and the car started

But since the auto electrician bridged the 2 connections in the fuse box and got the car started we have found that the fuel gauge constantly reads at the bottom of the gauge but no fuel light on and we keep getting an esp error flash up on the dashboard. .

I think all issues are related, but not sure if they are or not!?

To try and fix all of the problems we have replaced the fuel pump and the sender, this didn't work still no fuel guage.

We replaced the entire fuse box as the auto electrician advised that the fuse box must be faulty and that's why he needed to bridge the 2 wires. This didn't fix the issue we still need to bridge the 2 wires.

I was advised that it must be the ecu and the BSI so I purchased an extire kit of the internet and replaced the ecu the BSI and the chip in the key etc, and it's still exactly the same.

I can't see what else there is to replace? Any ideas as it is now costing a fortune.

Issues are....

1. 2 wires in fuse box need bridging to start the car.
2. Fuel guage constantly reads empty but no fuel light.
3. Keep getting esp / asr error.

Does anyone have a wiring diagram / wire schematics for Peugeot 1007 fuse box?