Key wont' turn bmw 645ci, code is good and programmed

[labusas]

Hello, I have a dillemaI have a lost all keys. Car is 2004 bmw 645ci with cas3.
Read cas and retrieved a code. Droped last digit from code and found cuts.
Key is cut and transponder programmed OK.
Key turns in the door but ignition WILL NOT!
Why?
correctly programmed chip is detected by "remove key" icon on the display.


Is this because stearing lock is "locked" or some difference in door versus ignition cuts in the key?


I would appreciate your input since the car is still stranded.

[aassfour]

it doesnt mean if it opens the door it should open ignition , there is difference in door and ignition as far as i know , iginition uses 1 extra cut depth i think
correct me if i m wrong

[labusas]

Yes but the key was cut from code 0598 which was retrieved from CAS directly.

Can anyone confirm cuts. I used instacode 2008. It didn't list 645ci though.
I use miracle A5 and selected silca hu92

[aassfour]

i dont have instacode to confirm it , but the bmw iginition works with just a blade even without transponder , so the programming is not the issue here , definitely its the cuts , maybe the blade is faulty with wrong measurements , try another blade or maybe the ignition is jammed

[hauwkee]

try to unlock steering if lock
i m not sure about the extra cut in ignition
key code give u id get 8 cuts is good
not sure
what are u using to read cas module

[Fallen]

Good chance the ignition had been replaced to a random key.
I am not sure if a 2 in 1 pick will work on the ignition.
I have been able to over lift these though in the past to get them to turn.

Cuts should be 24323424

[nicocr]

have done same a few week ago (effi work great xD) and ignition have 8 cuts. if key dont cut perfectly dont work. when you done a little force in ingnition, turn?

[labusas]

Thanks all for ideas.
Fallen, what do you mean by over lifting? And Yes, those are the cuts I have.
I still think its something to do with car being locked via a remote. Now I made only a transponder - no remote, hence can't unlock steering which jams ignition. Maybe transponder ONLY key needs to be initialized by ignition ON first? So, if I had a remote key it wouldn't be a problem. Just an idea. I checked with a calliper and cuts are correct.

[topclef]

sorry , my mistake ,

should be ok

[labusas]

Thanks for the pic. It looks like the tip is cut wrong on mine. Yours is wider tapered to the tip past cut 1.
Maybe that's the ticket!

[topclef]

do you mean N?8 ? maybe , i use Viper , i never had problem .

[labusas]

I widened the tip and no go

[keygargoil]

It is probably the calibration I know a few people who struggle cutting hu92 keys on a5 the keys just about work the door and won't turn the ignition I use viper and never had any problems or it could be a different ignition lock 2 in 1 works on the ignition

[Fallen]

Overlift means lift all the wafers up with a blank and apply tension so they stay up.
Gently release the tension and you will hear the wafers click back into place.
Do it right and it will turn.

Make sure the key is going all the way in too.

[Fallen]

Overlift means lift all the wafers up with a blank and apply tension so they stay up.
Gently release the tension and you will hear the wafers click back into place.
Do it right and it will turn.

Make sure the key is going all the way in too.

[labusas]

Today I had another bmw, this time 535i 2006, so same hardware as the other one.
I cut the key from code again and won't turn in the ignition but flawless in the door.
So now I'm thinking for sure it's my Miracle A5!
I take the blank to another locksmith and he cuts from same code on a different machine. Even though some cuts look visually longer - this key also won't work in ignition also. WTH??
Could it be that my machine initially mis-cut a key which I used in the ignition and wafers get jammed so even correct key won't work after? It did slide in there without an effort though. And I tried to jiggle and force a little.
I would really like to zero in the problem area here...

[Fallen]

I don't think it is, the door locks have a tighter tolerance than the ignition due to the keys being used in the ign constantly. I have not done that car before, it uses a cas 2/ ews hybrid system correct?

3 button diamond key but different internals.

I wonder if it has an eis part to the ignition that stops it from turning like a range rover vogue?

[labusas]

I wonder if it has an eis part to the ignition that stops it from turning like a range rover vogue?

That's what I was thinking, Fallen. I never have issues with E46 , ive done E90 as well. But this 5 series with with CAS2 and a diamond key - an issue. What does this car want? Ir is it like rover?

[aassfour]

donno wt really is happening with u , but i can confirm that even without transponder code the 5 series iginition should work with the correct key

[nicocr]

where you take key code number? i think the best is take to pieces the lock in trunk, and see the combination manually (maybe somebody modified door look, less combination or some that) sorry for my english

[labusas]

Key code was retrieved from CAS2 module with bmw keyprogramer.
it's not the door cylinder modification because this happened on two consecutive cars with CAS2.
Maybe CAS2 code is not 100%
Never had issues with codes from CAS3

[hauwkee]

did u try to lishi the door if it s a serie protected there is 1 more cut like audi
can someone told us if right orwrong

[obdsystems]

With A5 I always cut with 1.7mm - not the 2.0 mm to have slightly wider cut. Seems to work better with lazer.

...then again maybe my drill needs replacing :)

[labusas]

I'd like to revisit this issuue with bmw 5 series 2006 and ignition cylinder not turning. Key cut from CAS code.
I cut as obdsystems suggested, down from 2.0 to 1.6mm one time at the time. Still not turning in ignition, and turns in the door and glove box.
There must be some hidden cut in the ignition or something specific for Miracle A5.
Please help with advise.

[raptureready]

I would personaly try a lishi 2in1 in ignition to pick it and then decode and see what cuts u get, if it doesent pick with lishi then there is another reason why lock wont turn, lishi picks all hu 58 4 track ignitions and hu92 2 track ignitions, this way should get to the bottom of this problem
all the best

[labusas]

Thanks brother, but I don't use lishi yet...
Anyways, this is the 3rd bmw of this generation with same exact problem.
So either the code is wrong (but why door and glove work)
or
Miracle A5 is mis-0cutting this keyway for this model.
I can decode a HU92 3 series key and cut it and works OK. It also same diamond key.
or, most likely
there's an extra cut like Audi

[dmp]

Has anyone compared a current key to one cut by cas code on one of these for a duplicate key situation where you already have a working key? Could help figure out the issue. Could even try using the unprogrammed key first to see what it does

[labusas]

Yes, DMP, hopefully someone will compare and let us know...
Thats a great way to see what's happening

[rapidlocksmiths]

i would personally pick and decode ignition with lishi as easiest way to confirm if key cuts are correct or not , i know its your 3rd like this and its hard to believe , but it is still possible ignition has been changed or altered or as you say key cut is out in memory , a 2 minute pick and decode with lishi will confirm this.

i dont think you can blame your machine here , as another locksmith has cut you a key on a different machine already , so this i think rules out the machine being at fault .

using the wrong key and leaving a wafer out of position is unlikely to be the issue , especially in the ignition , caked grease in door locks can cause this but not an issue normally in ignitions , so you can rule this out as the issue i think , if you want to confirm this , lubricate lock and rake all wafers for a while , this will free any stuck wafers and allow you to rule this out as the issue.

so you can rule out an out of position wafer and your cutting machine as being the issue , which leaves you needing to pull the lock and strip it or pick and decode it with lishi , if you dont have lishi then im sure someone near you will have one to check this for you and maybe save you alot of time and head scratching .

have you tried impressioning techniques , turn key in lock and jiggle up and down , then inspect key cuts for marking , this will id wrong cuts , if proficient with impressioning then cut a key to a number 1 in all positions , insert in lock and jiggle , then inspect which positions mark on cuts , cut each position that marks to a number 2 cut , then repeat for 3s and 4s .

could steering lock be siezed or excessively stiff ?

but getting someone out to pick and decode with lishi could save you alot of time and head scratching

[labusas]

Thanks for insightful answer Rapidlocksmiths.
I agree Lishi would be an answer. But the answer we're looking is to find validity of the CODE from CAS on these.
We do bmw keys on the side at the shop, lishi would be great but learning it would be another time consuming job for a non locksmth. Could it be that the code is not correctly entered/decoded from CAS in these cars? it's only 2 year range that they made them like that. I can't believe no one else came across this.
No electric steering lock in these, but the customer key worked ok just a day ago before lost.
It was lubricated, yes.
I'll keep you posted if solution presents itself.

[rapidlocksmiths]

lishi would help confirm validity of code in cas , you could pick and decode door and ignition and compare to the code in cas , ive come up against alot of vehicles that have had an ignition change , or an ignition rekeyed after key theft or loss .
if the key works perfect in door but not in ignition , it does really point to only 3 problems ;

1) the ignition lock has been changed or altered to the original code
2) the door has had some wafers removed to suit a different ignition
3) the key blank is a bad blank and either over or under size

ive had No3 on many combo vans on hu100 which had cuts correct but blade was just under size , sometimes aftermarket blades can be just that tadge over or under size which can make all difference .

its going to remain a mystery to you until you decode the ignition as to where the fault lies.

as the code in cas works the doors etc fine id guess at the code being correct and that the ignition has been altered or changed at some point , customers with remotes rarely use keys in doors to know .

[labusas]

From Lishi manual:
"All positions in the bmw door lock can be read with the Lishi Tool. To decode the lock read in the opposite direction as it was picked"
The lock has 8 spaces and 4 depths. All 8 wafers are in this lock"

So if I understand correctly, door lock and ignition are same???
If correct then for sure customer is not correct and ignition was changed.

Can ignition be decoded correctly with lishi or is there some protection to prevent that?

[rapidlocksmiths]

lishi picks the ignition fine on HU92 , only the HU58 4 track can be problemsome and need a different procedure .

depending on which version of lishi 2in1 you use to pick and decode the hu92 , if the single lifter then you decode in the opposite direction to you picked , if the twin lifter version you decode in the same direction as you picked , either will give you an accurate decode, my personal preference is the single lifter on these .

[912secured]

If you have a scope you can look at depths and the lock is set up so you only see 2 depths so you go high and low on half cuts. Hers an artical on doing it on VW's BMW's work the same till 2010.

[cjawahir]

i think the chip have problem , thats why the key not turn ,the steering lock must sound when you insert the key .

i think the lock is like the range rover idea , because this system is just before slot type key .

cj

[labusas]

>>>i think the chip have problem , thats why the key not turn ,the steering lock must sound when you insert the key .
There is no electric steering in these 5 series with diamond key - as I was assured by members in this thread as well.
Is that something you could confirm Cjawahir?
They chip was programmed and the key symbol changed to a "key recognized" on the dash.

[cjawahir]

>>>i think the chip have problem , thats why the key not turn ,the steering lock must sound when you insert the key .
There is no electric steering in these 5 series with diamond key - as I was assured by members in this thread as well.
Is that something you could confirm Cjawahir?
They chip was programmed and the key symbol changed to a "key recognized" on the dash.

i am not sure , its simple if you have another vehicle , shield the key with foil and try to turn , if turn then have no steering lock and solenoid on ignition lock .

what could cause this problem is the lock module need sync just like newer one .

disconnect battery and reconnect try to turn the key few times , and if it start then have lock sync problem .

cj