bmw cas 3+ ista-p 45 via genuine AVDI [Sitemap]

robert81

18th March, 2015, 09:39 PM

Hi all

im after some advice please. those who have genuine avdi bmw CAS keys
just bought cas keys option for my avdi and today had bmw 3 2008 spare key to be made.
it had cas 3+ (oryginal 3+ not 3 upgraded to 3+)
after connecting avdi and starting the procedure i had mesage
""The firmware version of CAS is ISTA-P 45
change of flash data is required, the software version will be preserved.
do you wish to continue""....

well... the question is do i want to continue?
can anyone glow any light on safety? did you do that yourself in the past?

i eepromed CAS and i have backup of eeprom and flash.
unfortunately i dont have tango to make a key from eeprom.

thanks in advance

H.Wessel

18th March, 2015, 09:42 PM

Sure, no problem.
If you have backup if something go wrong you can rewrite backup and you will stay again like now.

ninja123

18th March, 2015, 10:24 PM

I have 2008 5 series E60 with no keys, istap 45, AVDI failed, also on line version failed :(

robert81

18th March, 2015, 10:48 PM

i cant use online version as the car is in the middle of nowhere - no internet signal.
i may try to connect to owners wi fi if he has one...

Fallen

19th March, 2015, 02:39 AM

Downgrading the CAS is always risky.
Sure you can remove the CAS, read it,refit CAS, attempt to downgrade, re-flash if fails, cheer if it works.

If you did this all day, you would go broke because it takes too long for a spare key.

If all keys lost, maybe a different story.

robert81

19th March, 2015, 08:34 AM

I agree with you Fallen that it takes to long to go that route.
What do you normally do when you get car like that?
By sound of your reply i understand that if avdi goes wrong, even having eep and flash backup i may get into trouble. Can avdi damage cas permanently?
Thank you all for all replies

westville locksmiths

19th March, 2015, 10:40 AM

Avdi works good with cas3 and 3+.
Normal 3 , just make a key in the ring it will work.
On cas3+ you need to programme a chip first. configuration 0EAA485... AND PAGE 0 TO 425F4....
pUT INTO EMPTY POCKET , then follow Avdi,
Works 100%

Fallen

19th March, 2015, 10:52 AM

Be honest with your customer, let them decide.
Downgrading the flash on a CAS in a very risky process.
I have a $1500 power supply, great laptops and I still won't risk it for a spare key.

If AVDI bricks a CAS, it takes 3 weeks to get a new one in my country.
How do you explain to a customer that they may have to wait 3 weeks before they can drive their car (if you can't fix it) and it was working perfect before you touched it?

I'm pretty sure the customer would rather pay the extra for the original BMW key and I would rather not have the headache of fixing a car because the hardware failed to do it's job.

It's all about risk vs reward and to me it's too risky at the moment.

simaservis1108

19th March, 2015, 11:35 AM

Xprog it first.Takes no more than 30 minutes to restore to former state.
Also if AVDI fails,you can always use some tool to finish it via EEprom.
TM100 requires working key or ECU dump for CAS3+ though.

54321

19th March, 2015, 12:15 PM

well... the question is do i want to continue?No. Its madness to do go through all that for a spare key, just leave it for Bmw. Lost keys are a different story but for a spare key, nope.

totalkey

19th March, 2015, 12:35 PM

In previous post That was a talking about avdi do automatically backup before flashing

techterr

22nd March, 2015, 04:30 AM

I have 2008 5 series E60 with no keys, istap 45, AVDI failed, also on line version failed :(
Hi Ninja, did you by chance send the log files to abritus support?? I sent files from a failed atempt at syncing a 2007 DME to an EWS, they sent back an email asking me to contact them and they would teamviewer in on the next one and help me... Not that I will ever do that again.. New EWS and a trip to the dealer... I'm still walking funny... I wonder if they can help in your situation..
Take care,
Tim

ninja123

22nd March, 2015, 09:16 AM

They say they will help on teamviwer, but I dont have time to keep going to same car, and owner getting pissed off, so taking it to dealers now.

But I tried everything, and this one will not work, but I have had success on lots of others, upto a 2010 model, and all very easy, just think there is a problem with ista 45 versions.

ninja

MarkPRP

22nd March, 2015, 01:18 PM

2011 cas3+ no no eh ninja

obdsystems

22nd March, 2015, 03:14 PM

AVDI CAS3+ failed to do spare on every BMW.
Prob fixed the bugs now in last say 8 months?

- thinking of Multi Tool as a backup.

and also thinking of mobile 3G boaster to use that latest AVDI BMW

techterr

22nd March, 2015, 08:51 PM

I personally like the way the multitool works.. It was the first thing I used on a BMW CAS.. Haven't used the 7.5 yet, has anybody tried it on later models?? And Ninja, I am right there with you... When they said to go back and they would log in and help me, all I could think of was, great, a one hour drive to have them say, yep, there is a problem...
Take care,
Tim

indienick

23rd March, 2015, 06:06 PM

It is very risky, yes.

The big thing is that all new car require the firmware downgrade, example, I did 2015 BMW X1 last week,
and it works fine....still uses PCF7945 key! Same as 2006 BMW 3 series!

but one time I did 2012 BMW 1 series, and the keymaking failed, had to replace CAS......there is no way
for me to know if I will have a problem, so always I am very nervous. It is loooooong 15 minutes to flash it, lol.

In my personal opinion, the more old the vehicle, the better chances. BMW 3 series and 5 series,
it always works. But X series and 1 series, I have some problems before....maybe it is just me.

the only car I had to replace CAS was on 1 series though. Everything else I can get it running by OBD
and force power to CAS / START / STOP fuse. And if I had XProg at the time, I could restore it with Abritus help,
but like the other guys have mentioned, you cannot keep going to car over and over.

So.....

if you can fix it when it fails, I say do it anytime.

If you cannot, then I say you should run.

indienick

23rd March, 2015, 06:07 PM

Anybody can tell me - BMW multitool can program CAS3+ without modify the firmware?

indienick

23rd March, 2015, 07:48 PM

Also - this is why this forum is good man. Because if you ask this question about ISTA firmware change in the KAP 'official' AVDI forum, they will tell you "of course it is always safe",
"if the CAS is ruined it is because you did something wrong", or they will delete the post entirely, haha. One time I asked why the car was dead from ISTA update
(this is before I know how to fix it myself) and they wrote me message telling me never to write post like this, and to check with their tech support first always,
and then they delete my post.

AVDI is amazing tool, do not get me wrong, but like any amazing tool, it has issues, and when company try to hide them a lot, it is bad for the consumer really.

obdsystems

23rd March, 2015, 08:01 PM

indienick

23rd March, 2015, 08:17 PM

KAP banned me indienick + agree great tool but odd issue.

Yeah wise words -
Cover your backside as-much-as-possible. I think even with rosfar backup things can(and do) go wrong as 54321 found.
ideally carry a second hand CAS unit and have the dealer tool to sync up?

I might buy an engine ecu and see if can match CAS on bench... make sure i have as much kit as possible when the poo kits the fan...

banned? from the KAP forum????? i never had heard such a thing...... :burnout: you must have voiced your opinion, lol.
all it takes is one disagreement or wrong question and you are erased from their history completely.

second hand CAS cannot be programmed with dealer tool right? I think dealer tool only can code a new CAS
that is pre-coded from the manufacturer.

Autel BMW software can program new CAS very good if anyone has it. It is long procedure but works very well
but again, must be ordered from dealer and hard coded with VIN.

in fact, i would be very interested to hear how to use second hand CAS. I don't need it now but maybe in the future.
maybe I am mistaken about second hand CAS with BMW dealer tool? That is very interesting.....

obdsystems

23rd March, 2015, 08:48 PM

From what I've read main-dealer tool (clone from china) used to re-sync ISN number - but AVDI can do this also.

All from what I've read here - is you can code a 2nd hand unit CAS after modifying with XProg to match VIN and ISN. Assume exact CAS p/n unit not required.

I'm going to study this subject ! Cheers for your posts

PS. check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxGm7kd6uoM

autofan1965

23rd March, 2015, 10:28 PM

I am banned too and have special files with prtnscr about what i have ask and what i have say. Cool solution when someone make inconvienient question, kick him out and make black list. Its not difficult answer why they have no time to fix some bugs and make promises true.

Fallen

23rd March, 2015, 11:40 PM

This is why the Kap forum is unfortunantly a ghost town, there is no active discussion on it and very few threads end with a conclusion.
Mostly open threads or replies that end in "Read the manual".

rrador

25th March, 2015, 12:30 AM

KAP forum became really bad after that big changeover they had to the new support system.

For ppl asking about multitool - I use it and it does not work on cas3+. It also needs to downgrade flash which I never tried. Multitool has option to make key from file so I just remove cas and read with rosfar.

obdsystems

25th March, 2015, 09:07 AM

robert81

25th March, 2015, 09:10 AM

can anyone confirm that tango also manage to generate keys via eeprom method on cas 3+?

rm23

25th March, 2015, 10:07 AM

tango can make keys on cas3+ but need eeprom from ecu or one working key.

simaservis1108

25th March, 2015, 02:25 PM

TM100 can do CAS3+ via eeprom.
Need working key,or ECU dump.

indienick

25th March, 2015, 04:07 PM

So you don't have to downgrade if doing via eeprom ?

Legally this sounds better

how do you mean? legally

Maybe I am not exactly sure what the ISTA firmware change is all about....

54321

25th March, 2015, 08:09 PM

how do you mean? legally

Maybe I am not exactly sure what the ISTA firmware change is all about....If you downgrade the firmware inside the cas you put it back to its vulnerable state with regards to vehicle theft, the reason bmw started upgrading the software inside the cas units was because of how easily and frequently they were being stolen with the use of a certain tool.

indienick

25th March, 2015, 09:32 PM

If you downgrade the firmware inside the cas you put it back to its vulnerable state with regards to vehicle theft, the reason bmw started upgrading the software inside the cas units was because of how easily and frequently they were being stolen with the use of a certain tool.

thank you. now that you mention, i had heard this before in the past. thanks a lot to clarify.

so if they go to dealer and have update firmware again, will my keys still work?

obdsystems

25th March, 2015, 09:58 PM

yes your key would still work cos its written to the eeprom.

But, but, but what is really interesting is if the customer then ordered yet another key but from dealer - it may not work cos that slot was taken.
Don't know how true that comment of mine is -but know customer was complaining cos his stollen-recovered BMW wasn't running with new genuine fob!!

Legally, as these BMWs get older, downgrade becomes less of a problem i should imagine (ie risk :) )

I want to do a rosfar 1st so may go down the Tango/TM100 route rather than AVDI.

- Apprieate any hints/tips on swapping 2nd-hand CAS units

robert81

25th March, 2015, 11:19 PM

i always create key on last position.
obviously dealer will create keys form position 0 onwards.
highly unlikely owner will reach position 9 from dealer.
easiest and i think obvious way to avoid same position key.

at the same time im not sure about crypto codes etc.
what interesting i have managed to do on bmw mentioned in first post
at the end i gave up but i had some 50% success.
i created a key via avdi dump tool.
there were 2 keys in memory, i knew which position was taken by present key.
to create key with avdi dump tool i had to choose one of the positions already taken. couldn't choose new position
so created that key, strange enough, avdi didnt ask me to put working key in the loop so i knew it wont work 100%.
wrote eeprom back and new key was working ok on remote but wasn't working on starting the car.
ill be gettin tango at the end as i already have all eeprom toys for cas.

54321

26th March, 2015, 10:25 AM

- Apprieate any hints/tips on swapping 2nd-hand CAS unitsI swapped a cas a few weeks back, original was fried.

Assuming the worst and you've lost all data from the cas with no back up then this is the process:

You need to get the eeprom dump from the ecu, then get the eeprom dump of the secondhand cas, once you have both of those you will need to post them up in the ecu section as you'll need someone to match the ecu and cas together, once you've got your matched dump you write that back into the cas. Then fit cas, use avdi to do a sync, then make a new key. Job done

But to be honest if i get another situation like that i'll just go straight to BMW and order a new cas, its around ?280, comes the next day and is part programmed. Saves time in the long run unless you've got a handful of seconhand cas units in the van ready to go.

obdsystems

27th March, 2015, 10:27 PM

I swapped a cas a few weeks back, original was fried.

Assuming the worst and you've lost all data from the cas with no back up then this is the process:

You need to get the eeprom dump from the ecu, then get the eeprom dump of the secondhand cas, once you have both of those you will need to post them up in the ecu section as you'll need someone to match the ecu and cas together, once you've got your matched dump you write that back into the cas. Then fit cas, use avdi to do a sync, then make a new key. Job done

But to be honest if i get another situation like that i'll just go straight to BMW and order a new cas, its around ?280, comes the next day and is part programmed. Saves time in the long run unless you've got a handful of seconhand cas units in the van ready to go.

Cheers i did read you had an issue previously with rosfar.
Wonder if power related?

CAS from BMW does sound easiest solution (assuming BMW wouldn't need log book etc).

Think we need a bmw flash editor (can't recall name) which changes VIN and ISN (AVDI sync). and finally reset maybe (with dealer tool).
Speculation at mo

Will do everything to get outta trouble. Need to do these cars tho

Siham

29th March, 2015, 05:57 AM

TM100 can do CAS3+ via eeprom.
Need working key,or ECU dump.

Hi Simaservis
You tried by yourself?

Thanks!

rrador

29th March, 2015, 05:57 PM

So you don't have to downgrade if doing via eeprom ?

Legally this sounds better

No need to downgrade just make key from file and it starts. But like the other tools needs a working key or dump from ecu. Also 3rd option is if no working key, 64 start attempts.
I tried and it works, got lucky that it worked after about 10-15 attempts so didn't have to sit there long time trying.

Siham

29th March, 2015, 09:49 PM

rrador

30th March, 2015, 12:50 AM

I'am litle lost guys ,with multitools it's possible to do cas3+ all keys lost?
Also need a ecu dump?or just make key from file and try to attempt 64 times? even with latest ista-p version?
do you remove cas or you do this by obd?or with rosfar xprog whatever?
If yes it sounds really good because we do not have to remove anything!
Thank you!

Yes with multitool ou can do latest ista p version all keys lost.
You have 2 options cas dump + ecu dump or only cas dump + 64 start attempts. So you still need to remove cas but not ecu. Cas is easy to remove, in out read tops half hour.
But start attempts could take a while...basically you program key software will tell yo try to start and ask if car started, if no you put key back in programmer and click no and keep doing that until car starts.

robert81

30th March, 2015, 09:33 AM

is genuine tango capable to do it the same way as multitool?
no keys, cas only and 64 attempts?

obdsystems

30th March, 2015, 06:38 PM

is genuine tango capable to do it the same way as multitool?
no keys, cas only and 64 attempts?

Just a guess but Tango doesn't have OBD connector.

PS. Mini after 2007 - i see CAS is upper dash. Differcult to remove i think ??

54321

30th March, 2015, 07:55 PM

Yes mini cas is a pig to remove, its under the upper dash, make sure you're charging good money to do one of those.

sparkz02

30th March, 2015, 08:06 PM

gurmk

30th March, 2015, 10:35 PM

I've only ever used multi tool for spare keys and that seems to work fine, the lost keys I've tried recently haven't worked might be me doing something wrong. The last one was a BMW 09 plate, not sure of CAS version I do know it haden't been upgraded, because I can read/change mileage. Loaded all the key data - saved data, went on to pre-key, it said this version is encrypted you have 16 attempts, (not sure 16 attempts of what, or what is suppose to happen after these 16 tries).

Tried for around 45mins fiddled and fiddled tried different keys but nothing had to walk away.

After 16 attempts it says contact main dealer for support.

I done a 2010 320d CAS 3+ today all keys lost with MultiTool 7.5. Read the eeprom via OBD, precoded the Remote Key on position 8 (Would not let me use Position 9).
It said that the Eeprom should be written back to CAS but I didn't. The car started on the 12th attempt.
The only problem I got was that the remote would not work. Do the Remote have to be programmed separately? (Remote from China, supplier says he sell a lot of these and no come back)

obdsystems

30th March, 2015, 11:13 PM

spark - this was def CAS3+ cos if had been CAS3 you would have had job done easy :)

gurmk - who knows. I'll let some1 elase answer but really thought u'd need dump mate

sparkz02

30th March, 2015, 11:40 PM

gurmk, So I'm guessing it said put key on the ring, then it says put key in the ignition, after every time I did that it said contact the dealer. To be honest can't be sure how many times I tried to do it wasnt counting. obdsystems I'm sure it was a CAS3+ but it didnt have the latest anti theft update thats what I meant

indienick

31st March, 2015, 01:43 PM

After 16 attempts it says contact main dealer for support.

I done a 2010 320d CAS 3+ today all keys lost with MultiTool 7.5. Read the eeprom via OBD, precoded the Remote Key on position 8 (Would not let me use Position 9).
It said that the Eeprom should be written back to CAS but I didn't. The car started on the 12th attempt.
The only problem I got was that the remote would not work. Do the Remote have to be programmed separately? (Remote from China, supplier says he sell a lot of these and no come back)

the remote and transponder programs together. you got the right frequency remote? I do not know a lot about the Chinese keys but I heard they work ok, just not for long time....like work a few months or weeks
and stop.

the car was proximity or not? did the remote test ok on tester?

gurmk

31st March, 2015, 02:48 PM

the remote and transponder programs together. you got the right frequency remote? I do not know a lot about the Chinese keys but I heard they work ok, just not for long time....like work a few months or weeks
and stop.

the car was proximity or not? did the remote test ok on tester?

The remote frequency is 868Mhz (Same as the CAS3+) and tested OK on remote tester and its normal remote not proximity.
I bought the remotes in June last year and its the first time I used one of these.
I'll get one from 3D and see if that works.
Can any one tell me what software I need to find out which ista-p the car has?

ninja123

31st March, 2015, 06:49 PM

post cas version here and wee will see.

Ive done 2010 3 series cas 3+ all keys lost, with avdi, no problem.

It all depends on the version, ISTAP 45 is a no go, tried 3 cars last week, all failed, 2008 1 series, 2011 3 series, 2008 5 series, all ISTAP 45 and all not working.

I see avdi says can make a working key from just cas dump, without writing back!! Not sure if it works though!

I have never tried to make a spare key for this version, just in case it goes wrong :)

Fallen

31st March, 2015, 11:06 PM

All keys lost to cas3+ works well with AVDI.
I'm talking about having to remove the CAS and read by external programmer.

You start the process, it asks you for the CAS dump, then you put the key in the slot and see if the car starts, try it twice.
If it doesn't work, remove the key, click no, put key back in and try and try to start twice.

Repeat this until the car starts.

Nothing gets written back to the CAS by you, AVDI does everything.

As far as I know, there is nothing better on the market.

Chinese multi tool copied AVDI.

Nothing can do ALL CAS3+ by obd every time.
Some inroads have been made by Abritus into reading the ISN from engine ecu so the CAS doesn't have to be removed this is only in a small percentage of the cars.
Even AVDI does not specify which cars they are.
They released a PDF to try and explain it but it was so confusing nobody understood it (plenty of people pretended to though).

labusas

4th April, 2015, 08:15 PM

>>>As far as I know, there is nothing better on the market.

Tmpro2 does it via ECU+CAS dump

tunertool

22nd August, 2015, 09:14 AM

labusas: what if the car is a gasoline model without eeprom... I guess then TMPro2 doesnt work?
Also does it accept Tricore ECU EEPROM or only the older EDC16 EEPROM?

simaservis1108

22nd August, 2015, 09:17 AM

Gasoline Siemens MSD/MSV TriCore Internal EEP 16kB.

labusas

26th August, 2015, 03:40 PM

Hi, does anyone know tool to read these ECU tricore in newer bmw's? Is OBD possible or is it boot mode only?

simaservis1108

26th August, 2015, 05:19 PM

Impossible via boot-mode.
Some tools via OBD can extract Long ISN.

labusas

27th August, 2015, 02:04 AM

So mileage is not possible to change in the ECU at this time?

rivalryan

19th September, 2015, 08:24 PM

If you have problems with ISTAP 45 on lost keys, while connected with AVDi make a note of the ISN then remove CAS and read with programmer then load into Tango and decrypt CAS3+ with ISN number, then program key to free slot, no need to write anything back, job done.

tunertool

19th September, 2015, 09:09 PM

I tried that and it didnt work... I got key symbol on dash and sucked key but no ignition...

JFR-Tuning

21st September, 2015, 07:49 AM

I have damaged the Cas 3 + by Bmw 3 year 2010, bevor i Do a lot of time this Job with AVDI . But this Time it damaged . I have no Connection to the car by OBD . The Job was to change the ISTA P. KAP is no Support . They answer everytime stupid. Only the cost are higher than AVDI . The best answer You geht there arme from owner

have Andy m8 a Solution for My Problem? I can Reader the erprom i think with R260 programmier