A little legal help required

[username]

Got a letter from the rozzers for speeding on a road called Lordswood Rd in Birmingham, the Misses was driving the car registered to me and was doing 46 in a 30, however there are no high visibility static cameras and there was no coppers with speed guns the only other possibilities are either mobiles place in cars or unmarked vehicles driving in close proximity, My argument is that there are no signs anywhere on that rosd warning of speed cameras nor are there any signs indicating that the speed limit is 30 mph

Source

http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/speedmanagement/pdfdftcirc0107.pdf

Signing
40. A speed limit is made lawful by the presence of street lights and/or a Traffic Regulation
Order and the provision of prescribed speed limit signs appropriately located that
comply with the TSRGD.
41. The Department has published an aide-memoire (DfT, 2006a) that provides guidance
on speed limit and safety camera signing and is designed to ensure correct and
consistent signing across the country. It does not replace or update the legal
requirements of TSRGD but should be considered as best practice. In summary:
? Camera signs should continue to be co-located with speed limit signs where
permitted and practicable.
? For fixed speed enforcement, co-located camera and speed limit reminder signs
should continue to be placed to allow the signs and speed camera to be visible to
the driver in the same view. A camera sign may also be placed not more than 1
km from the first camera housing in the direction being enforced (including or
excluding side roads at the discretion of the road safety partnership).
? For mobile enforcement, co-located camera and speed limit reminder signs
should continue to be placed in advance of the point of entry to the site or route
(including or excluding side roads at the discretion of the road safety partnership)
in the direction being enforced. Camera signs should also continue to be placed
thereafter at intervals of around 1 km throughout the length being enforced.
42. Reference should be made to TAL 01/95 Speed limit signs ? a guide to good practice
(DoT, 1995) when reviewing speed limit signing. On dual carriageway roads and
motorways, wherever possible an additional camera warning sign should be placed on
the central reserve.
43. In all cases, camera and speed limit signs must not be obscured but be positioned to be
clearly visible at all times.
44. On every occasion before commencing enforcement at a camera site, the enforcement
officer should be satisfied that relevant speed limit and safety camera signing is present and correct.

and goes on further to say

Visibility
45. Depending upon the enforcement method used, speed camera housings (including
tripod-mounted cameras) or the camera operator or the mobile enforcement vehicle
should be clearly visible from the driver?s viewpoint at the following minimum visibility
distances:
? 60 metres where the speed limit is 40 mph or less;
? 100 metres at all other speed limits.
7
46. On every occasion before commencing enforcement at a camera site, the enforcement
officer should check that the visibility guidance is met.

I know it's a pretty stupid thing to do but this appears to be about gaining revenue by deception through a complete lack of warning in compliance with their legal requirements, anyone had any experiences that could offer some advice, it's going to have to be dealt with by tomorrow and if there is a case I will let it go to court

Most grateful

username

[Shady]

common sense tells you that street lighting/houses means 30 if ur unsure...id swallow the fine if i were u matey

[Shady]

to add to this
I was caught speeding in a 30 mph limit. There were no signs and it was not clearly residential. Can I dispute the allegation?

There is no obligation for a 30 mph speed limit to be sign posted, except when you enter it from a section of road where the speed limit is not 30 mph. 30 mph is the national speed limit. The Courts will take the view that you should be driving on the basis that the limit is 30 mph. Accordingly, unless you can show that there was good reason to believe that the limit was not 30 mph (ie you had been in a higher speed limit area and there were no signs) there would not normally be grounds to dispute the allegation, simply because there were no "30 mph" signs.


and there you go.... sorry mate

[RedSpider]

yeah, your missus needs to learn some common sense on the road. Pay the fine and tell her to slow down.
I hope she doesn't a need a sign to tell her not to murder people too?

[username]

yeah, your missus needs to learn some common sense on the road. Pay the fine and tell her to slow down.
I hope she doesn't a need a sign to tell her not to murder people too?

Ironically she always was slow a few years back it did my head in, and yes I think she probably does for the last thing

[username]

to add to this
I was caught speeding in a 30 mph limit. There were no signs and it was not clearly residential. Can I dispute the allegation?

There is no obligation for a 30 mph speed limit to be sign posted, except when you enter it from a section of road where the speed limit is not 30 mph. 30 mph is the national speed limit. The Courts will take the view that you should be driving on the basis that the limit is 30 mph. Accordingly, unless you can show that there was good reason to believe that the limit was not 30 mph (ie you had been in a higher speed limit area and there were no signs) there would not normally be grounds to dispute the allegation, simply because there were no "30 mph" signs.


and there you go.... sorry mate

Thanks for that Shaddy, but the speed isn't my quarm, I think it's the lack of signs indicating that speed cameras which are for safety measures not profit were in use in this location, 5 mile or so from this location there is a road heading towards Bromsgrove that clearly show signs warning about speed cameras despite not having statics, but on occasions they have them peeping out the back of unmarked cars parked off road, crafty as it is but forewarned is forearmed to speak

[little paul]

i had simular, if the camera was not in sight, go take a pic of it, pay your fine, this will be at the lower end of the bill, then appeal it i only say that because if you last out the 14/28 days of paying it you will have to in the end pay the whole amount, paying the low end of the bill is alot better than the full amount, i appealed it and won, i am still waiting for them to pay back wot i paid them 3 mths its been, this may be helpful if not try citizens advice, they'll put you right, good luck, paul.

[thered]

if there is no signs up telling you the speed assume its 30mph

any other speed will be sign posted


also a camera police officer can put signs up on that day and take them down on the same day that warn of speed camera

as it was your wife who got zapped and not you you have no idea how she got caught you are just guessing

pay the fine or pay more in court are the options you have im afraid

[super jumbe]

My friend once was in the same position the only deferent was he was never driving the car since the car clutch was broken, he wrote to the police for the photo evidence of the car he was driving, they got the number plate numbers same but the car colour and make was deferent, the police had no legs to stand on, they let him off.
You could ask the police for the photo evidence, because you got nothing to lose.

[johnboy1974]

if the police can provide you with sufficient evidence that the vehicle was speding then do the honest and decent thing and pay up.Stop looking for a get out.

[DogdySnigwirter]

Was it a hand held speed camera ? The guy in the clip fought and won his case ...

[donkeyboy]

ask to see the calibration records of the camera then they have to provide it and if they cant you stand a good chance of getting off or the wife the does

[Shady]

why? his mrs was caught fair and square doing 46 in 30 zone..signage or not...the law says its 30 UNLESS signposted otherwise.. they broke the law and have got to pay for it...

[super jumbe]

How did Mr or his Mrs new any 1 of them were driving on that road was speeding 46mph and to be honest as far as I know there has to be a 30mph sign and a yellow camera sign in order to take the speeding test in comply with the TSRGD.

[Shady]

no there doesnt super jumbe... its 30 UNLESS otherwise posted.