series 60 programming only!

**Lickety Split** · 17th November, 2011, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by Poptest

Hello DK.... Please advise me on best way to derate Series 60 from 450hp to 350hp.

Many thanks......

I see by the title,you are looking to reduce fuel usage?
I am a strong believer this is the WRONG way to go...here's why,think about this for a minute...who will burn more fuel,the one who climbs the hill one gear down at half throttle and does it in 30 seconds...or the one who climbs the same hill 2 or 3 gears down at full throttle and takes 45 seconds?

I have been around trucks all my life and have been driving for 30 years,and i strongly believe the ONLY way you are getting good mileage is to get the biggest motor you can,turn it as high as it will go,and get the driver to KEEP HIS FOOT OUT OF IT!!! Just because i can make 600 HP doesnt mean i HAVE too...but when i need it,i have the power to BACK ME UP.

I have a 98 Western Star with a series60 DDEC IV. this truck weighs 25,000# all by itself and still gets 6.5 to 7 mpg pulling a flat running all 48 states.

If you have any questions,feel free to post here or send me a PM

**Poptest** · 17th November, 2011, 02:38 AM

Thanks for your prompt reply. You are right about this.

Here's the situation. My customer has Cummins trucks rated at 330 - 350hp, and he's happy with his fuel use. He now buys a used Freightliner with Series60 450hp engine. Engine runs fine but fuel consumption is way off compared to his 330hp Cummins engines.

His trucks carry a fixed load which is not so heavy. This is why I'm considering a power derate on this engine. I'm not really sure if this will improve consumption though.

Thanks much....

**Lickety Split** · 17th November, 2011, 03:12 AM

Originally Posted by Poptest

Thanks for your prompt reply. You are right about this.

Here's the situation. My customer has Cummins trucks rated at 330 - 350hp, and he's happy with his fuel use. He now buys a used Freightliner with Series60 450hp engine. Engine runs fine but fuel consumption is way off compared to his 330hp Cummins engines.

His trucks carry a fixed load which is not so heavy. This is why I'm considering a power derate on this engine. I'm not really sure if this will improve consumption though.

Thanks much....

No problem...a lot depends on whether they are geared the same too...do they have the same gearbox and rearend ratios? tire size can have an effect too. but if he's happy with the other ones then he's the one paying the bill,go for it...but i stand by my original post...Build em big and drive em easy

BTW,if you look in the ratings on the ecm,it may already have other ratings there...i.e DDEC IV allows up to 4 ratings that can be changed with a simple hookup on a reader or laptop.
for example,mine has 475,500,550 and 600hp setups,i can load any one just by hooking up to the laptop for a few minutes. I have even heard that it can be done with 2 switches on the dash...i.e. depending on how the switches are set when you start the engine,determines what setup is running.
Hope all this helps

Hmmm...you might want to check this truck REALLY good...the charge air cooler is a BIG problem,any more than 3psi drop in15 seconds and i'd be replacing it...how's the gearbox and rears? i had one once that burned up the power divider before i figured out why it was overheating. how bout brakes? i just went thru some problems with trailer brakes dragging ever so little,and put my mpg in the crapper.

I'm not trying to sound like a "Know it all" but ya gotta look at the WHOLE picture,especially with a "new" truck that you really don't know. not saying you dont know about trucks,but what other problems might be lurking in the background,having an effect on the mpg. and the driver too...is the extra hp going to his head? I'm just sayin...Stand back and look at the big picture before you waste alot of time chasing problems that aren't there.

**ddmech** · 17th November, 2011, 03:13 AM

I agree with lickety split completely.Leave the engines turned up.Use your progressive shift to limit your rpms to 1800 and speed to 70 or less .With detroits low rpms,tight charged air coolers,correct valve adjustments are all critical for mileage.Also any speed over 65 or 70 with cut your mileage tremendously.Sorry driver but the days of triple digits are about over.

**Lickety Split** · 17th November, 2011, 04:02 AM

Yep,mine will do 100mph in a big hurry if i ask er too,but you will never see me doing more than 65 no matter the limit

**Poptest** · 17th November, 2011, 06:51 AM

No problem...a lot depends on whether they are geared the same too...do they have the same gearbox and rear end ratios? tire size can have an effect too. but if he's happy with the other ones then he's the one paying the bill, go for it...but i stand by my original post...Build em big and drive em easy. I haven't checked anything as the truck is not yet in.

BTW,if you look in the ratings on the ecm,it may already have other ratings there...i.e DDEC IV allows up to 4 ratings that can be changed with a simple hookup on a reader or laptop. What software is best to check and modify ratings?
for example,mine has 475,500,550 and 600hp setups,i can load any one just by hooking up to the laptop for a few minutes. I have even heard that it can be done with 2 switches on the dash...i.e. depending on how the switches are set when you start the engine, determines what setup is running. I didn't know this. thanks for the tip.

Hmmm...you might want to check this truck REALLY good...the charge air cooler is a BIG problem,any more than 3psi drop in15 seconds and i'd be replacing it...how's the gearbox and rears? i had one once that burned up the power divider before i figured out why it was overheating. how bout brakes? i just went thru some problems with trailer brakes dragging ever so little,and put my mpg in the crapper.

I'm not trying to sound like a "Know it all" but ya gotta look at the WHOLE picture,especially with a "new" truck that you really don't know. not saying you dont know about trucks,but what other problems might be lurking in the background,having an effect on the mpg. and the driver too...is the extra hp going to his head? I'm just sayin...Stand back and look at the big picture before you waste alot of time chasing problems that aren't there. Of
course I will check everything which may influence consumption.......just want to be prepared on steps to do when truck comes in.

Thanks again!!

**jm30013** · 17th November, 2011, 07:37 PM

advance the camshaft timing helps tremendously!

**Lickety Split** · 17th November, 2011, 10:00 PM

Ok Poptest, i would start with the charge air cooler first,then run the overhead. as far as software,i use dddl,ddrs and ddct...all are available here on DK,just search the garage forums for info,if you need help,just ask here or pm me.

Yes,advancing cam timing MAY help,but you GOTTA be really careful there as these are interference engines,which means if you go too far,you WILL punch a valve thru the top of a piston...I DO NOT ADVISE DOING IT...for more info on this,ask ddmech...i do not work on engines every day,just my own when it needs it,i am a driver but do everything i can myself...no offense to the guys who work in the shops,but ya gotta save where ya can.

**Poptest** · 18th November, 2011, 08:09 AM

Thanks Lickety and ddmech. Your tips will guide me when I see that truck.

**ddmech** · 19th November, 2011, 02:04 AM

Hope it helps Poptest.The most benificial but also the most dangerous is advance cam timing.It is not something for beginners in the engine buissiness because if not done correctly it is very easy to blow and engine.If done correctly I have saw as much as 2 mpg increase in mileage.Have had better results and more consistant
results than anything I have tried.

**Dieselhawk** · 23rd November, 2011, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by amishmafia00

you can not change anything from that screen , you need to retrieve calibration from the ecm make changes, then transmit back to the ecm. for passwords try 0000

I'm pretty sure you need DDRS to turn the Jakes off anyway. I don't think ins/outs can be changed with DDDL.

**Lickety Split** · 23rd November, 2011, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Dieselhawk

I'm pretty sure you need DDRS to turn the Jakes off anyway. I don't think ins/outs can be changed with DDDL.

You are correct Dieselhawk...I/O cannot be changed with dddl,must be done with ddrs or ddct.

**junkyardkid** · 6th December, 2011, 06:02 AM

any sugestions on optimal cam timing for power, fuel mileage? I have 04 ddec 4 egr (cut egr nuts)

std cam timing ( i think 13 deg)

**mathura** · 29th December, 2011, 10:48 PM

Detroit series 60- Engine will not start.
The truck worked and park yesterday and this morning it refused to start, I used the DDDL software and scan the system. Active code 42- too few SRS. I checked the sensor and wires which proves ok, I also checked the TRS sensors and wires according to the troubleshooting and found nothing wrong.

I checked to see if timing gears were rotating and this is also ok.ECM is receiving power. Neep Help Please.
What else should I look for.

Thanks

**hercamp** · 29th December, 2011, 10:58 PM

with dddl connected...crank engine ....and read rpms signals ...if rpms ar high to 150 engime most start ....with all fuel lines full ....look in response time table too during cranck .....most read iguals vaules...normally with fuel lines connected and not air in system .....1.08 up ....and voltage that read ecm ...if is slower to 11.v will not open injectors...and most look in electrical starter..