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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shady View Post
    but wasnt the experiment conducted in a sealed container? so any gasses escaping wouldnt leave the measured area?
    how did the soul leave the sealed container if that was the case, did 21 grams of matter passed through


    has scooby doo taught you nothing



    There is always an explanation somewhere

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    ok i was wrong.. it wasnt in a sealed container, i think i might have been remembering something from a dan brown book.

    but i found this

    In 1907, Dr. Duncan McDougall weighed six patients, while they were in the process of dying from tuberculosis. When death was imminent, the entire bed of the patient was quickly placed on a highly sensitive industrial sized scale. In each case, when the patient expired, he noticed an extremely small sudden change in the weight of the deceased which could not be accounted for by other means. The missing mass, which this weight loss represented, was used to support his hypothesis that the body had a soul which had mass. On the death of the visible body, the soul departed, and so did this mass. The weight of the soul, based on the average loss of mass in six patients, was measured by McDougall to be 21 grams. A paper summarising his findings appeared in the journal American Medicine in 1907. One critic quickly pointed out that the sphincter and pelvic floor muscles relax at death, and that the loss was perhaps due to ejected urine and/or faeces. McDougall rebutted that if this were the case, the weight would remain upon the bed and, therefore, upon the scale.

    Someone else suggested that the dying patients; final exhalation might have contributed to the drop in weight. To disprove this, McDougall climbed into the bed and exhaled as forcibly as possible1; while his assistant watched the scale. No change was observed.

    In 1988, Noetic Science carried out experiments on the largest number of patients and concluded that the human soul weighs 1/3,000th of an ounce. The experiments were carried out by East German researchers who weighed more than 200 terminally ill patients just before and immediately after their deaths. In each case the weight loss was exactly the same ; 1/3,000th of an ounce.
    Fave replies from various threads

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shady View Post
    ok i was wrong.. it wasnt in a sealed container, i think i might have been remembering something from a dan brown book.

    but i found this

    In 1907, Dr. Duncan McDougall weighed six patients, while they were in the process of dying from tuberculosis. When death was imminent, the entire bed of the patient was quickly placed on a highly sensitive industrial sized scale. In each case, when the patient expired, he noticed an extremely small sudden change in the weight of the deceased which could not be accounted for by other means. The missing mass, which this weight loss represented, was used to support his hypothesis that the body had a soul which had mass. On the death of the visible body, the soul departed, and so did this mass. The weight of the soul, based on the average loss of mass in six patients, was measured by McDougall to be 21 grams. A paper summarising his findings appeared in the journal American Medicine in 1907. One critic quickly pointed out that the sphincter and pelvic floor muscles relax at death, and that the loss was perhaps due to ejected urine and/or faeces. McDougall rebutted that if this were the case, the weight would remain upon the bed and, therefore, upon the scale.

    Someone else suggested that the dying patients; final exhalation might have contributed to the drop in weight. To disprove this, McDougall climbed into the bed and exhaled as forcibly as possible1; while his assistant watched the scale. No change was observed.

    In 1988, Noetic Science carried out experiments on the largest number of patients and concluded that the human soul weighs 1/3,000th of an ounce. The experiments were carried out by East German researchers who weighed more than 200 terminally ill patients just before and immediately after their deaths. In each case the weight loss was exactly the same ; 1/3,000th of an ounce.
    so according to noetic science a soul weighs 0.0085048569 grams which is very light indeed probably meaning that the weight loss could float

    I have some questions though

    what does immediately before dying mean?

    hang on dont die yet get on the scales?

    There must be a time lapse between death and weighing, how long is the time lapse?

    How much did the bodys weigh after every subsequent 30 seconds after death?

    How much did they weigh every 30 seconds before death?

    chances are they were decreasing even before death,

    Every breath, heartbeat and movement burns some form of calories, if a patient is not eating on his deathbed his body will consume himself all the time he is alive burning energy

    To get accurate data you need all results before and after death every split second if neccessary

    I doubt this study due to dicrepancies that could arise due to the actual time of death how is it measured? lack of data provided and the time of the actual weigh in itself


    Does the brain not function 3 or 4 minutes after heart stops?

  4. #34
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    Default Re: The Soul

    I may have fallen into a trap of people thinking I presented the above as fact. I had no intention of doing so as I don't believe it is cold hard fact. It was an example that agreed with my theory that our energy must go somewhere

    Sent from my telegraph using Morse code
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shady View Post
    I may have fallen into a trap of people thinking I presented the above as fact. I had no intention of doing so as I don't believe it is cold hard fact. It was an example that agreed with my theory that our energy must go somewhere

    Sent from my telegraph using Morse code
    We need more than examples sir


    We need all important data before and after death to establish if there is any pattern

    we need to know how immediately is immediately in the same second or same minute

    the fraction of a gram may explain feelings of cold sensation against body as it is very light

    Is brain function ,heart function lungs and any movement not already changing the bodys weight all of the time not just for dying people but for everybody, the body burns carbs for fuel when it has no carbs it breaks down fat for fuel and even muscle

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shady View Post
    I may have fallen into a trap of people thinking I presented the above as fact. I had no intention of doing so as I don't believe it is cold hard fact. It was an example that agreed with my theory that our energy must go somewhere

    Sent from my telegraph using Morse code
    the body's energy does go somewhere.
    it is either given off as heat, or recycled as food for other critters.

    Firemouth rules for life.
    If it aint broke, don't fix it!
    If its broke, fix it and use it again!
    If it proper broke, use it for something else!

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    I direct my energy into hatred.

    The soul must be real because I have the ability to suck the soul from any living creature in order to gain it's power. If I suck the soul from a wasp, I gain the powers of flight and malice.
    Syntax Error : Integer Out Of Range



    Hooray For Tits & Fannies

  8. #38
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    ive been doing a bit more reading and have found this:

    It's energy that can't be created or destroyed. Electricity is the flow of electrical charge from one location to another. It's driven by energy (in the same way that energy is behind a dropping ball), but it's not the same as energy and doesn't enjoy the same invulnerability.

    The electricity in our brains is produced by ion imbalances across the membranes of brain cells. These ions (charged calcium, sodium, and potassium atoms, among others) normally want to spread across and diffuse until there are equal amounts and equal electrical charges on both sides of the membrane. There are small proteins that span the membranes, though, which use the energy in ATP (which in turn, is built up using energy stored in the chemical bonds of the food we eat) to pump specific ions to opposite sides of the membrane.

    It's this imbalance in ions and charges on each side of the membrane that sets up a voltage. When it comes time for a brain cell to send a signal along, small channels open up, and the ions flow across the membrane, trying to even out on both sides. They overshoot a little bit, though, which ends up flipping the voltage across the membrane. This change in voltage causes the channels a little further down the membrane to open up, which flips the voltage there, and so on and so forth down the length of the neuron, like a row of dominoes. When the impulse reaches the end of the cell, it triggers the release of neurotransmitters, which flow across to the next neuron in the line and either trigger or prevent it from firing. It's an electrical system, but it doesn't run on electrical current like an appliance or a computer.

    When a person dies, though, their cells live on briefly. Without blood flow to bring nutrients, the cells quickly run out of stored energy. In the case of the brain, the pumps stop, and the voltage across the membranes of the cells evens out. Without anything to pump the ions "uphill" the cells can't set up a voltage to drive another impulse.

    In other words, when you die, some of the energy in your body is lost to the environment as heat (we lose the same amount of energy when we're alive, we just replenish it with energy from food). The rest remains stored in the chemical bonds of the molecules that make up your body until they either break down (the energy is lost to the environment), or are actively broken down and harnessed by other organisms (i.e. used for food).


    so basically confirming what firemouth said above.
    Its a shame tho, i quite liked my idea and i believe it made some sense (well it did to me anyway).

    I never believed in the idea of a sentient soul, i just theorised on what happens to the energy that leaves our bodies.. and by extension what causes people to see ghosts.


    In conclusion, yes i was talking rubbish.
    Fave replies from various threads

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  9. #39
    DK Veteran firemouth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shady View Post
    In conclusion, yes i was talking rubbish.
    you see i dont see it that way, at all.

    If we don't ask questions, however silly they may seem when you get to the true answer, we would get nowhere.

    you can, at least, now claim to have a working knowledge of the first and second laws of thermodynamics.

    kinda off topic:
    i have an allergy to bee stings. indeed I'm told two or more could kill me.
    the up side is, I'm totally immune to wasp stings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Last edited by firemouth; 26th February, 2013 at 10:19 AM.

    Firemouth rules for life.
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    If its broke, fix it and use it again!
    If it proper broke, use it for something else!

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by firemouth View Post
    i have an allergy to bee stings. indeed I'm told two or more could kill me.
    the up side is, I'm totally immune to wasp stings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    immune how? they dont hurt you? they dont swell? they wont kill you?

    I remember an argument i had with maca over which was the hardest, bee or wasp, and i recollect that i found that wasp venom was stronger than bee venom, is it a specific compound in the bee venom that will kill you?
    Fave replies from various threads

    1: What the fff is all that about??? All that crap below your reply I mean, get a life mate
    2: no info on google abt the pace sv5 rang asda they have no idea what i was talking about,
    3: Your total contribution to this forum, bordering on trolling, seems to have been a collection of snipes, one liners & asterisked expletives






  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shady View Post


    In conclusion, yes i was talking rubbish.
    damn fool

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by thered View Post
    damn fool
    have never professed to be anything but


    In hindsight i should have taken a certain god fearing members stance and blindly insisted that i was right..
    Fave replies from various threads

    1: What the fff is all that about??? All that crap below your reply I mean, get a life mate
    2: no info on google abt the pace sv5 rang asda they have no idea what i was talking about,
    3: Your total contribution to this forum, bordering on trolling, seems to have been a collection of snipes, one liners & asterisked expletives






  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shady View Post
    have never professed to be anything but


    In hindsight i should have taken a certain god fearing members stance and blindly insisted that i was right..
    You should be commended on your ability to draw your own conclusions.


    Ultimately everything is just what people believe we are all deceived from early age Jesus, santa, easter bunny, pixies, elves,tooth fairys

    All made up by Walt disney ,Mattel and clinton cards

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shady View Post
    immune how? they dont hurt you? they dont swell? they wont kill you?
    no real reaction at all, except a tiny red swelling around the sting area. there is an initial stab of pain then nothing except a bit of itching.

    they never found why or what i was allergic too in bee stings.
    as tests could potentially prove fatal.
    they wont get any argument form me, either.
    though i was very young,when i suffered the first toxic shock, i have no wish to flirt with death, again, just to find out why

    at its most basic wasp stings are alkali, and bee stings are acid based.
    I'd agree the wasp sting is a far more complex formula and therefore the more aggressive of the two.
    it is after all used to hunt its food, where the bee sting is purely a defensive weapon of last resort.

    Firemouth rules for life.
    If it aint broke, don't fix it!
    If its broke, fix it and use it again!
    If it proper broke, use it for something else!

 

 
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