Need more keys for Ducato

[duncker]

Hi,
Fiat Ducato 2,8 JTD (2003).
Immobox Delphi (TYPE: WFS 125F2 01336569080 with Eeprom 93LC56B)
There is a Megamos ID48 Transponder chip in car key.
Situation:
I lost my only pair of car keys couple months ago and get a new one from the dealer (and had t pay a fortune!).
Few weeks ago I found old keys but it don't work bcause the of the recoding.
I would like to have spare key but don't want pay again to the dealer...so I wonder can I make my old key working again?
I guess it's just a matter of program the Eeprom again?
What's the best way to handle this kind of job? Should I have MVP or T300 programmer or is there cheaper and easier way?
If I read the eeprom-file is there a way to reprogram it so that the old key will work again?
These ID48 crypto chips can tricky ones? Transponder is locked, I guess? So what kind of tools do I need?
I also have couple of blank keys with ID48 chips (unlocked, never used) so I'm planning to have more spare keys as well IF IT WILL BE
POSSIBLE?
I know this a newbie question but I hope someone can lead the way.
Thanks.

[RTVM]

Hi,
Fiat Ducato 2,8 JTD (2003).
im*obox Delphi (TYPE: WFS 125F2 01336569080 with Eeprom 93LC56B)
There is a Megamos ID48 Transponder chip in car key.
Situation:
I lost my only pair of car keys couple months ago and get a new one from the dealer (and had t pay a fortune!).
Few weeks ago I found old keys but it don't work bcause the of the recoding.
I would like to have spare key but don't want pay again to the dealer...so I wonder can I make my old key working again?
I guess it's just a matter of program the Eeprom again?
What's the best way to handle this kind of job? Should I have MVP or T300 programmer or is there cheaper and easier way?
If I read the eeprom-file is there a way to reprogram it so that the old key will work again?
These ID48 crypto chips can tricky ones? Transponder is locked, I guess? So what kind of tools do I need?
I also have couple of blank keys with ID48 chips (unlocked, never used) so I'm planning to have more spare keys as well IF IT WILL BE
POSSIBLE?
I know this a newbie question but I hope someone can lead the way.
Thanks.


Hi,

i think T300 or MVP can programm it without problems. You will need correct login code and a new unused ID48 transponder. Follow the T300 instructions in PDf and all will bee good. Before of any operation you should save data content of 93c56/66 eeprom!!

[Babanovski]

I do this job with lexia, ducato using same immo box, you need lexia or t300 5 digit pin code and cripto 48 transponder.

[duncker]

Hi,

Thanks to Babanovski and RTVM. One more thing; You said there is a need for the 5 digit PIN-code. Is this PIN-code as there in the key code card of the vehicle?

I have there both electric and mechanical codes.

Thanks again.

[squirrelbandy]

1d48 chips need to be pre programmed type , plain id48 will not work as need to be prepared from immo data.
try reprogramming the old keys and new 1 , if this fails the immo box needs reading and the id 48 chips inside the keys can be made virgin with TMPRO ect and then pre programmed with dump read from immo. pin code is displayed when immo file is put in programmer.
HTH

[duncker]

Thanks for the valuable information.

Do those online programmers (eg. MVP/T300) also "reprogram" transponder chip during the process? Eg. if we are talking about ID48 crypto transponder chip which had to be "preprogrammed" before it could be used. Is this "preprogramming" taking place when the process is going on?

I'll try to clarify what I mean:

When the online programmer is working does it also writing necessary data to transponder chip (presuming that the chip is unlocked and virgin)? If the transponder chip IS NOT BLANK (it is then locked and have to be unlocked with the equiment like AD900 or TMPro before you can re-use it?).

So by using MVP/T300 the whole process is automated so that you don't have to know anything else except the right PIN-code (5 digit). MVP/T300 can read the immobox data and match it with the blank chip?

OR:

First of all you need to read Immobox eeprom (to find out the right PIN-code) and after that you can make reprogramming?
Transponder chip needs to be precoded. So you will need to this by other equipment (no MVP/T300)??? And this can be done with TMPro (AD900/AD90 etc)?

As a conclusion you will need both MVP/T300 and ALSO TMPRO OR ETC EQUIPMENT??? But this will be needed only if the transponder chip IS NOT A VIRGIN ONE?

Was this correct? Sorry...this is little bit confusing to me...

[squirrelbandy]

no the t300 ect do not do the preprogramming. this needs to be done on the bench with tmpro ect , once done you finish off the process with a key programmer.

[nazz2]

when programming fiat keys,all keys have to be present,any key which is not present,it will permenantely be deleted,so you cant use your old keys.

[duncker]

Hi,

thanks again.

Nazz2; you said that every single has to be present when programming. OK, that's cristal clear.

But if you have an old key (which is blocked off) and you can UNLOCKED the chip, it is then re-usable? Am I right?

So if you try to get an old key working again, first you have to unlocked the chip, then pre-program it and finally it has to be recoded once again to immobox eeprom?

To do this you need both online programmer and key programmer (so that you can first unlock the chip and pre programm it)?

So it won't be simple operation and it's getting also expensive cause you have to buy those programmers...

I guess there is no other way?

[nazz2]

hi
yes,even old keys have to be present when programming new,precoded keys on these.
im afraid you cant unlock 46crypto at the moment,that is excluding chrysler,hondas.using zed bull.
Gm,peugeot and fiat,at the moment cant be unlocked,so the answer is no!
And lastly,zed bull iis the only cloner(as far as im aware),which are getting closer,to unlocking most of the crypto transponders.

[duncker]

Hi,

Thanks a lot nazz2. Very valuable information indeed.

According to your knowledge, I suppose we can make a conclusion that there is nothing to do with those ID48 crypto transponder chips?

Is it really so?

So I can forget my old key and say goodbye?

Have you got any idea how to get a spare key? Or is the only way to make contact with dealer/factory and this would be so expensive way and I'd like avoid that as much as I can!

As far as I know you can have "spare parts" easily (ex. I personally found blank Fiat keys with ID48 transponder, only 8 $ piece.) The only problem is how to programm ??? How to use these blank keys succesfully?
Finally it looks like that the whole thing is just a matter of programming and getting the right info of precoding?

OR AM I MISSING SOMETHING?

I'm really pissed off with policy of the dealers and also Fiat.

I'm pretty sure there is a way...how to make contact with these who can make it happen?

As a matter of fact I got an e-mail from a guy who deals lot of this kind of stuff and he said that if he can get a eeprom dump file (immobilizer) he can make the old key back working? If this is true there must be a way to program those new and blank keys as well?
Without blocking immobilizer totally. So no need for immo off?

Kind regards,

[nazz2]

HI
Im afraid that is the case,you cant use the old keys,with the current technology,unlocking %75 of the 48 key its possible,with ZBull.but if when new,it gets unlocked first by,Zbull!!.
I would hang on to your keys,since the technology is moving fast,also your friend is right,that means you can put the immo data on the chip,but not the used one!!

so if you take the immo off,read the dump,pot in here,i can tell give you the logic,that when copied to a 48 transponder, that will start your car,but you have to see a good locksmith to do the rest, ie ,he supplies you a 48 chip,and put my logic on it,keep your key,since you have the mechanical key.

[duncker]

Hi Nazz2,

Thanks again.

I'm still confused.
Few things still missing:

1. brand new and virgin transponder chip (ID48 crypto megamos):

is it straight ready for programming or IS IT LOCKED? So after taking it from the dealer's package, should it first get unlocked????

If so, unlocking is possible (eg. with Zed Bull) but uncertain (only 75% is available for unlocking)?

I thought that brand new and virgin chips are UNLOCKED and ready for preprogramming?

2. after reading the immo's eeprom, the file (logic) can be transferred to the chip so it can start the engine?

is this "logic" some kind of "edited version" of the eeprom OR just part of the eeprom-file? Do you have edit eeprom-file somehow before you can get this "logic"?

3. transponder programming:

I have understood that this is possible with programmers such as TMPro/AD900? Do you need special skills to do that or simply "on the fly" operation?

NAZZ2:

I really appreciate for your kind help. If I will send you the dump-file you can check it and look for the eeproms logic? What about if I have eeprom programmer of my own? Then tell me what step to take next? Also if I have programmer like TMpro or AD900 it's possible for me to do chip programming myself? So no need for special locksmith help?

As told before I have one working key and also couple of brand new with unused megamos chips inside. And like you said to me this old key of mine I can forget. It's gone and not possible to use again.

It would be cool if there is step by step instructions for this kind of job somewhere? Wishful thinking I guess.

I read through manual of MVP (also T-300) and it looks like so simple job to programming new keys to car. But as a newbie maybe I have few things missing? Hard part is get all the necessary information of the combination VIN/PIN with key card codes crypto issues?

According to TMPro website there is lots of information about the immoboxes and my targeting box is giving the PIN code when reading the eeprom.

Surely I can live with only one pair of keys but
like I said I'm so pissed off with dealers "money making pullshit- policy" and that's why I'm looking for answers to "make it yourself".

Wishfull thinking again...?

[nazz2]

HI
well, when you buy new transponders,say 48,they are all unlocked first,in your case ,48 ,i think it is not ok to use,if the chips and remote are all in one(if you have a sort of late ducato that is),so if the key and remote are all in one,then these can not be reused,since the transponder is a solder type,ie it is a 10\14 leg,soldered on the remote board,and they get programmed only once.

2,sorry my mistake ,if the transponder is say 48,and is of glass type,and it is not soldered on board,these can be used again.

3.when you use a eeprom programmer like upa,omega,with eeprom adapters,you have to chose the right eeprom chip from the prgrammer menue and read it and save it ,it is called ,DUMP.

4Then you have to use a device called zbull,ad900 pro,these devices will copy the data(DUMP) to the transponder chip ,these devices come with a software,which is connected to the pc , the device software,from the DUMP,,wil calculate another data(LOGIC) ,which will get copied to an apropriate transponder! required to start the car.so basically serries of codes.

5.if i were you,i swallow my pride and buy from them,since there is a huge costs,to buy these devices,and eeprom programmers.

6.unfortunatelly these can not be done as you put it,in the fly,it is not difficult to do,but expensive!if you look at the tmpro site,you can then find out where your im*o is located,and which eeprom to take out.also when the data(logic)gets copied to the transponder,in most cases,you dont need to programm the key to the car,it is ready to start the car,see tmpro, for guidance.

nazz2

[squirrelbandy]

this van keys are not 46 cryptos they are id48 and like i said old 1s can be reused with right tool then precoded , i have done this many times , end of.:deal::roflmao:

[duncker]

Many thanks to Squirrelbandy and nazz2.

Few things more:

Squirrelbandy;

* i have two blank keys (for this type of Fiat car, atleast they claimed that there really are blank and virgin chips inside).

So I have also two pieces of brand new chips.
(and ofcourse the working key as well as this old and not working key).

* I have also the dump-file.

So, now I will need Ad900 (and software which is included)?

like you said, you have done this many times?

At this phase, let's forget that old and not working key.

Using dump-file with AD900 + software I can make those BLANK KEYS working ?
But ALL THE KEYS (including this present 1 piece working key) HAD TO BE PROGRAMMED AT THE SAME TIME?

correct?

[duncker]

Many thanks to Squirrelbandy and nazz2.

Few things more:

Squirrelbandy;

* i have two blank keys (for this type of Fiat car, atleast they claimed that there really are blank and virgin chips inside).

So I have also two pieces of brand new chips.
(and ofcourse the working key as well as this old and not working key).

* I have also the dump-file.

So, now I will need Ad900 (and software which is included)?

like you said, you have done this many times?

At this phase, let's forget that old and not working key.

Using dump-file with AD900 + software I can make those BLANK KEYS working ?
But ALL THE KEYS (including this present 1 piece working key) HAD TO BE PROGRAMMED AT THE SAME TIME?

correct?

[nazz2]

I cant judge on ad900 pro,since i use z bull, do you own a ad900 original?the answer to your questions are yes.

please copy your immo dump here,then i can give you the key logic,(WHICH YOU CAN COPY TO YOUR KEYS)also need to know the type of immo,make and modle,eeprom no.

depending on the modle/year,it is possible to give you a pin code,from your dump,so you can programm your keys to your car.if you have a programmer

again if you havent got a programmer,i can modify your dum,so it will start your car,but it might be more complicated for you,please provide more info,as to what equipment ,copy or original that you have

dont want to make things more complicated,but copy your dump here,then we see how it goes,step by step,dont forget to provide more details of the year,immo,etc.

[squirrelbandy]

yes you can modify the dump to show the keys but they still need to be precoded to start vehicle , you are making this thread too long winded , ive explained the easy way to do it .