Punto Sporting wont start Key light on dash

[mikesworkshop]

Hi,i have a 2000 Mk2 1.2 16v punto that wont start.the amber key light is permanently on on the dash.I have tried everything to get this going including fitting a complete ecu,bsi unit & key set out of another vehicle.I have a reflex diagnostic which will access the body controller but not the engine ecu.I have been pulling my hair out...whats left of it for the past 2 months now and not got anywhere.
Took vehicle to fiats last week who done a diagnostic...they say that there is a can comms error between bsi & engine ecu but they are not interseted in doing the job or will not price it as it would be in excess of a grand to put right.
Would appreciate any help with this problem....Any ideas ??????:afraid:

[solar]

If you change all ecu kit,car should start...ecu+bsi+transponder chip.
You sure your ecu kit was good one?
Do you replace ignition switch,or just add new key close to pick-up ring and use your old key to start car?If you leave old and new keys close to ignition your car not start.

[notoetannoto]

hi
has the unit the right power supply?

[dafdiagnos]

i've had this problem before & it was down to bad connection in engine bay fuse board- a common fiat fault, along with corroded fuses. another to check is wiring to ign barrel key reader & multiplug connections to fuseboard /'bsi' - all can communication links

[z786]

the immo seems ok but its definatly not communicating with ecu, your ecu is not powering up

[Meat-Head]

a) What light is on MIL or IMMO?
b) Does the MIL light come on?
c) Z786 OPW :roflmao:

[mikesworkshop]

Hi,replaced eveything & fitted new ignition barrel & key,,engine cranks but no start,amber key on dash on.regards Mike

[mikesworkshop]

Hi,all fuses are live,as is the ignition coil ,not sure which pin in ecu is power supply ?.regards

[mikesworkshop]

I will check fuse board when i get it back from Fiat who are refusing to carry out any more on it as the say part numbers are missing from the wiring looms ???.No way of telling which looms are required.They must think thathis is the problem...

[mikesworkshop]

Hi Z786,any idea which pins/wires power up ecu ?.Any wiring diagram available ?.regards

[mikesworkshop]

eml not on , immo light on permanent.

[z786]

Hi, does the MIL come on at all? eg while ignition is cycled?

as requested mate, wire side
multiplug B,
Pin 17 should have 12-14v with ignition switched ON,
Pin 18 should have 12-14v with ignition OFF,
Pin 19 should have 0-1v with ignition ON,
Pin 2 should have 11-14v with ignition ON,
Pin 33 should have 11-14v with ignition ON,
Pin 49 should have 11-14v with ignition ON,
Pin 51 should have 11-14v with ignition ON,

id personally locate the pins then plug multiplug back in and check the wires with tester as some currents are runnin in 2 ecu and some out, or check all the ones above at the multiplug and the ones which there is no response, locate right wire, the check while plugged in

i knw you gna hav one hell of a time doin this, but mite aswel get it over and done with

[mikesworkshop]

Hi,no eml light on at all.will get round to do this & will let you no how i get on.regards MIke

[z786]

if MIL light isnt on at all, i was right about the ecu not powering up
post results wen ur done mate

[Meat-Head]

Hi,no eml light on at all.will get round to do this & will let you no how i get on.regards MIke

try twat*ting the underbonnet fusebox with a hammer, feautre on these for going down.

is it feasable (niceword)

1) Engine ecu lost earth?
2) Bent pins on engine ecu?

[molla79]

did you try to start the car with the ermergency mode?... I mean you must have a fiat code card and with this "manually" you can solute for a moment the problem with the im*o a you have a problem less in your diagnosys

[mikesworkshop]

Hi,got car back from fiats this morn at cst of ?90 for diag.got copy of `smart examiner` print out.
D601-can line error.wiring fault.
Thanks for your help in this....before i start.this vehicle has a bosch ecu not a magnet marrelli.
Are the test readings yoou supplied for this system as i no the plugs are different ?...I will wait for your reply before i start !!!!.

[z786]

hi, the test readings should be the correct ones
here is a photo 2 get u goin mate

make sure you check multi plug B

hav fun

[mikesworkshop]

Hi,bin on this all morn,here are the results along with some unusaul ones.First test.
Pin 17 11.7v,Pin 18 12.37,Pin19 4.5v,Pin 2 11.6v,Pin 33 11.7v,Pin 49 11.7V,Pin 51 4.62v.
As you can see Pins 19 & 51 results incorrect.
I examined & cleaned up the earTh point on n/s inner wing which consisted of 13 wires,i renewed all ends & made a better earth after this the tests were as follows:
Pin 17 12.7v,Pin 18 12.4v,Pin 19 12.3v,Pin 2 11.8v,Pin 33 12.7v,Pin 49 12.7v & Pin 51 12.3v.
As you can see most voltages have increased by 1V & Pins 19 & 51 now have battery voltage !!!!.
Another fault is that there is a black cable boted to the engine ecu caseing as an earth but this is a live cable 12.7v,surely this cant be right ???.

[z786]

is the car starting now??
any mil light at all?
that wire your talkin about r u sure its not goin 2 the starter motor??

[Meat-Head]

far to busy to read properbly (got 2 windows to crack, 2xfull lenght scratches to do - key & screwdriver, and need to puncture a couple of tyres)

i'm reading between the lines, but Z's earlier info would suggest to be currant and presant with ecu plugged in.

looking at Z's data with ecu unplugged the ones which he says are earth, if you find are live, flash to earth via a 3amp fuse (just incase) as suspect these are the o/p to eng main relay.

[mikesworkshop]

Hi,it was bolted on ecu caseing,the whole mount & throttle body are live,but is bolted to the plastic inlet manifold which is obviously why it hasnt caused more damage.i have disconnected it,this is a bloody nightmare....more hear than meets the eye !!

[Meat-Head]

Hi,it was bolted on ecu caseing,the whole mount & throttle body are live,but is bolted to the plastic inlet manifold which is obviously why it hasnt caused more damage.i have disconnected it,this is a bloody nightmare....more hear than meets the eye !!

CONFUSED

Ok SO the ecu case is 'live', that would suggest that the engine has dropped it's earth, does the engine crank?

OK let's pretend you are correct in what you say, Fiat and every member on
DK are wrong, then why..

1) You haven't mentioned a fizzleing, crackling noise, as this would
surly be a 'hard' earth
2) Why hasn't the 20 amp ass cocking yellow fuse that poweres
the ignition cracked, you mention talking to airbag (think)
so it must be live!

Think you best, get your favorite headlight bulb in your hand (H7,H3,H4
whatever floats your boat), and connect one side to the battery NEGITIVE, and the otherside to this 'LIVE' wire that should be earth
and see what happens.

If you are correct you will have the same problem as Manfred Mann
blinded by the light, if you are wrong then light will either be dim
or won't light up.

Enjoy, i'm off to look at some ~~~~.

[mikesworkshop]

If i dont get to the bottom of this soon Meat-Head i`ll be lookin at ~~~~.....
Car was a non-runner when i took over ,who nos whats happened with wiring....The wire is live,think it should be connected somewhere else but im not to familiar with punto wiring .

[mikesworkshop]

Forgot to mention,engine cranks fine.

[Meat-Head]

Where are you, in round figures?
Just might be less hassle if you could download a member off here, but
ask for a VAUGE price before they get carried away.

Not going to mention names, but somebody on here helped somebody else
and STUNG them like a wounded bull. Yes they fixed it, but it was one of them "happy with a kick in the teeth" jobs!

(I'm in Meat-City, between London and Scotland)

[mikesworkshop]

car owes me about 400 and prob not worth much more,seriously thinkin bout torchin it !.

[Meat-Head]

car owes me about 400 and prob not worth much more,seriously thinkin bout torchin it !.

Look only trying to help, ROUGHLY where are you, just that
M-H-M is having a day out (Friday 28 May 'important' person on here)
If nearby and IF everything goes to plan that's FOUR forum members
that can possibility help you, even if it's just to load into a skip.

DID YOU TRY EARTHING THE LIVE VIA A 55WATT BULB?

[Tismot]

Hi, if you look at the results from the dealers diagnostic check,(which should be right) it says >>>...they say that there is a can comms error between bsi & engine ecu <<<
So in theory that is where you need to start looking, if there was no power to the engine ECU then the dealer tool would not have been able to get comms with it to get the fault code in the first place.
Just my thoughts. HTH

Regards Mark.

[Meat-Head]

Ah looky here http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/f114/punto-ii-2001-1-2-8v-engine-fault-115822/index2.html#post582484

[mikesworkshop]

AT LAST EUREKA,as i said,i got this vehicle as a non runner without any history....spent yesterday morn further testing,still couldnt work out why cable to ecu caseing was perm live.took out battery & disconncted wiring and stripped back loom wiring insulation exposing all wires.Traced cable from caseing back under inlet manifold only to find other end connected to main starter terminal !!!!!.connected to engine block,re-connected loom & battery and started straight away...just one prob,idle speed is a bit erratic/surges......think possible damage to throttle body.
THANKS to all who helped with solving this problem..
I need a new project now ....

[dafdiagnos]

:top:throttle body faults are common on these. glad you got it sorted mate

[Meat-Head]

Ah it's knowing what the last person did, ALWAYS ask the punter for the story, a man made fault is ALWAYS the hardest to find.

Had the same on a Daewoo Come and Won't go home, somebody had done a head-gasket or something, one sunday afternoon, Think it took me approx 46 seconds to spot the fault (negs on back of alterator pos!)
i just laughted walked off and next day got ?25, bargin wasn't doing anything at the time lol.