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Furax
14th September, 2010, 10:30 AM
Stumbled across this ecu with a genuine superchips unit in. Ive read somewhere these are read protected. I haven't tried to read it yet in case its got some kind of kill switch on it or anything. Its a pretty complicated unit considering the chip that its replacing is just a plain old 28F512.

Has anybody dealt with one of these before, and has any advice on how i could read it safely .

exe123
14th September, 2010, 01:04 PM
this is a copy protection socket. you can try to read it with programmer but it will fail (it will read ok but data is crap). they are protected against linear readouts...

Furax
14th September, 2010, 01:13 PM
Is there any way to get my willem to peform a non linear read out? Or maybe even read a few bytes, power down then back up again... yeah it would take a while but that wouldnt be a problem

pasonjayne
14th September, 2010, 03:11 PM
Is there any way to get my willem to peform a non linear read out? Or maybe even read a few bytes, power down then back up again... yeah it would take a while but that wouldnt be a problem

I personally wouldn't want the data out of one of those chips. Have you seen some of the older superchips maps, probably just flooding car with loads of fuel.

Furax
14th September, 2010, 03:13 PM
I personally wouldn't want the data out of one of those chips. Have you seen some of the older superchips maps, probably just flooding car with loads of fuel.

No ive not seen an old map, thats the problem.. :D i would like to copy it off and load it into ecm see what the differences are vs standard.

I have been looking to see if theres any way of reading a chip non linearly but so far its turned up nothing

pasonjayne
14th September, 2010, 03:14 PM
No ive not seen an old map, thats the problem.. i would like to copy it off and load it into ecm see what the differences are vs standard.

I have been looking to see if theres any way of reading a chip non linearly but so far its turned up nothing

What ECU is it you are working on?

Furax
14th September, 2010, 03:16 PM
Pug Gti-6. Magnetti IAW 1ap.10

pasonjayne
14th September, 2010, 03:21 PM
Pug Gti-6. Magnetti IAW 1ap.10

Wouldnt be that much between standard and modified i think maybe 4-5 BHP.

Furax
14th September, 2010, 03:25 PM
yeah i know, its just more curious than anything else. My friend would like a copy on his car and 4-5bhp is better than nothing.. all that stands in my way is finding a way to read the eeprom in a none linear fashion :(

impactops
14th September, 2010, 03:45 PM
yeah i know, its just more curious than anything else. My friend would like a copy on his car and 4-5bhp is better than nothing.. all that stands in my way is finding a way to read the eeprom in a none linear fashion

Have you read the chip, made a copy of it & put the copy back into the superchip PCB then plugged the superchip PCB into the ECU eeprom socket to see if it works?

v8 dave
12th October, 2010, 10:58 AM
How did you get on with this, as I have something very similar myself.

I can copy the 'original' chip and put it in the copy protection board, but that itself will not work without the board. I'd like to be able to copy my chip to put in my second (virtually identical) car, but am galled at paying another ?550 for an off the shelf chip :(

richy_rich
15th October, 2010, 05:26 AM
I don't know if this helps

GrauTec (http://www.grautec.de/)

(click on KFZ und Kopierschut...etc.) then there's the option to view the site in English. Not 100% sure but this looks like your 'device' above.

There's not much on the site about how they work, but you can contact them for more information.

Looks like it would be a good idea to get a copy of their encoder software and try figure out how that works? They mention a 'client specific algorithm' but I imagine all their h/w would all be standard, no?

tango
15th October, 2010, 05:40 PM
if u post the files u have read from the copy protected chips i will decode them for u if u like.
i will need the info of the ecu, car and chip

roth18
17th October, 2010, 03:23 AM
I personally wouldn't want the data out of one of those chips. Have you seen some of the older superchips maps, probably just flooding car with loads of fuel.

Ditto, I had a Superchip "tune", it was terrible. Switched to Upsolute long time ago.

zilog357
18th October, 2010, 02:24 AM
They use several methods when encrypting those chips. The copy protection board has a PIC microcontroller manipulating the linear read check and the algorithm. Also has a GAL chip (custom logic gates) programmed for custom interfacing the connection between the chip and the ecu. Some also include some of the chip databus pins swapped for more protection.

If I had the time, I would build some circuit with a pic microcontroller to randomly read portions of the chip and summing it up at the end... but hey, too much work for just one chip and the worst, a SuperChips brand.

Anyway, the "linear read" protection theory is still to be tested, though it seems to be the only logical thing to think of when trying to figure out how the protection board distinguish between a programmer and an ecu, but it may also be reading speed, as programmers are slow reading compared with the ecm when booting from these chips.

nicamarcos
18th October, 2010, 11:14 PM
Stumbled across this ecu with a genuine superchips unit in. Ive read somewhere these are read protected. I haven't tried to read it yet in case its got some kind of kill switch on it or anything. Its a pretty complicated unit considering the chip that its replacing is just a plain old 28F512.

Has anybody dealt with one of these before, and has any advice on how i could read it safely .

Send me your eprom bin file and i will send you inscrambled file, it will not need anymore Superchips anti-copy socket ;)

tango
19th October, 2010, 01:22 PM
Send me your eprom bin file and i will send you inscrambled file, it will not need anymore Superchips anti-copy socket ;)

i have also allready offered to do this

nicamarcos
19th October, 2010, 03:38 PM
i have also allready offered to do this
Yeah, but i don`t need any info about ecu and car, only chip file ;)

tango
19th October, 2010, 06:08 PM
i dont really it just helps :)

Furax
2nd November, 2010, 06:45 PM
Thanks for the offers guys, totally forgot about this. BIN pwd sent

tango
3rd November, 2010, 08:02 PM
here u go :)

Furax
3rd November, 2010, 08:06 PM
Hi tango, that dump is 128kb. The standard ecu is a 28F512 so should be only 64kb.

that 128kb file is off the superchips board, thats a 28F010.

Thanks
Ryan

tango
3rd November, 2010, 08:31 PM
sorry about that
try this 1

Chaser
4th November, 2010, 12:41 PM
Hey Tango or Nicamarcos is it possible for you to do the later GIAC encrypted boards as used in the VW Mk4 GTI's PLCC44 etc full ecu HW and SW

I've read it and know full well that the file is encrypted but I just wanted to see what it looks like. It would save me a lot of time as we have upgraded the turbo and put on a FMIC so need to either start again or just modify this one. Can post up full mods that go with the file too if required.
I'll get a pic of the board up too
Mark

Furax
22nd June, 2011, 07:34 PM
Upski!

Never did manage to get this one sorted, anybody else feeling like having a crack at it? I may even put a bounty on it if its allowed :D

Kuba_KMS
22nd June, 2011, 08:01 PM
Wouldnt be that much between standard and modified i think maybe 4-5 BHP.

If it's original Superchip it will be real crap... waste of time to read or look at it.
+5 % fuel
+ 2 or 3 deg of ignition advance.

Tune your ecu starting from stock file, results will be much better.

BR

Kuba

Furax
22nd June, 2011, 10:15 PM
If it's original Superchip it will be real crap... waste of time to read or look at it.
+5 % fuel
+ 2 or 3 deg of ignition advance.

Tune your ecu starting from stock file, results will be much better.

BR

Kuba

Yep i know, but sometimes you have to show people before they will believe it. Ive been fortunate enough to find these eeproms in ecus so its cost me nothing. Just want to decode the maps

del635
23rd June, 2011, 05:39 PM
I personally wouldn't want the data out of one of those chips. Have you seen some of the older superchips maps, probably just flooding car with loads of fuel.
x2, even in a petrol car they give a percentage increase in all fuel/spark maps! This is not tuning.

fergumon
26th December, 2015, 12:47 PM
Hello tango, can you send me the pass for the rar file? thanks

tango
26th December, 2015, 01:58 PM
Hello tango, can you send me the pass for the rar file? thanks

???? this thread is from 2010 and the file wasnt for you so why would i even give you the pass for someone elses tuned file ??
im sure thats not allowed anyway.