reduce electricity consumption

[captainjim]

anyone know anything about devices to reduce electricity consumption ,claim to achieve this by electricity optimisation,ie device moniters the incoming power to your home or business and regulates that input to meet demand.the bloke who tried to sell it to me was looking for ?250 said i could recoup cost in 6 mths,didnt buy.Another one reduced your incoming voltage to 220v thus saving power consumption as house appliances run at a lower voltage than our 240v

[Meat-Head]

.Another one reduced your incoming voltage to 220v thus saving power consumption as house appliances run at a lower voltage than our 240v

Nice idea, hasn't they heard of "Back EMF"
Nice to see 5 posts AND 5 downloads on your profile - considering you joined 2008!

Not sure on electric, but on telephones, great way to stop you getting bills again, but suspect will work for the electrcity.

Call your supplier and ask for them to disconnect your supply, No more bills:ridinghorse:.

[captainjim]

"Nice to see 5 posts AND 5 downloads on your profile - considering you joined 2008!"

some of us have other things to do rather than post and check on other peoples activities,is there a minimum number of posts required to be a member?:wavey:

[Meat-Head]

some of us have other things to do rather than post and check on other peoples activities,is there a minimum number of posts required to be a member?:wavey:


Whoa hang on, i've got LOT'S of things i should be doing, but spend it on DK, like sorting out these 'we are taking you to court' letters, find out if i'm insured or not.

Quite often, don't have any tea as on DK to long - then too late to eat.

Meaty.

[Mjolinor]

anyone know anything about devices to reduce electricity consumption ,claim to achieve this by electricity optimisation,ie device moniters the incoming power to your home or business and regulates that input to meet demand.the bloke who tried to sell it to me was looking for ?250 said i could recoup cost in 6 mths,didnt buy.Another one reduced your incoming voltage to 220v thus saving power consumption as house appliances run at a lower voltage than our 240v

It's bolox. If a device is designed for 240 and you feed it 220 then most modern devices will simply increase the current they take until they get to the power they need. You can't change what is supplied by the utility other than through a transformer or a switched mode power supply, both of which have less than 100% efficiency so they waste power.

UK supply is 230 not 240, it used to be 240 but was changed to bring it in-line with the rest of Europe. In practice they did nothing except change the tolerance as Europe's tolerance was wider than ours anyway.

Once the power is through the meter then it has been clocked. The only way to reduce that power is to bypass the meter one way or another and, in truth, is it really worth risking prison, death fire and all the other things that can happen just to save a few quid. :)

[mahler]

If a device is designed for 240 and you feed it 220 then most modern devices will simply increase the current they take until they get to the power they need. You can't change what is supplied by the utility otherSorry m8 not quite true, because current is directly proportional to voltage, and inversly proportional to resistance, so if you reduce the voltage the current goes down.

This means because there has been no change to the device resistance to compensate for the reduced voltage the lower current flowing will produce a lower Amps times Volts resulting in lower wattage.

This means the meter would go round more slowly, but the device supplied in this way would not do the job it was designed to in the same amount of time, for instance an electric kettle would take longer to boil water, the hoover wouldn't suck up aswell, and lots of other houshold items would become irritating.

Regards mahler.

[Meat-Head]

This means the meter would go round more slowly, but the device supplied in this way would not do the job it was designed to in the same amount of time, for instance an electric kettle would take longer to boil water, the hoover wouldn't suck up aswell, and lots of other houshold items would become irritating.

Regards mahler.

yeah, like i said back EMF - your cakemixer could end up with a burnt out motor.

There are electrical componets that can be damaged by too little or too much voltitude - e.g. gunn diode.

light o/p in lumins is properinal to currant drawn - ie your lights will be dimmer:sleep::sleep::sleep:

[Meat-Head]

Back EMF aint that what happens when a starter motor sticks in mesh and acts as a generator??

JoK

Not sure without looking, Daddy never told me much detail's.

If you have a 110V generator and put a 240V power tool on it, Daddy said it would burn out the generator - something to do with back emf.

Also if you get a 12volt relay and put across a battery you get a shock off it - back emf - diode across winding will stop this

[racin-snake]

more to the point if your gonna spend money on somic then why not look into some type of alternative power ?
ie a wind turbiine or solar panels
there are many variables to look at including just plain management of the stuff you use ect
simple additions or consumption drops can save a few quid that can be used to find and pay for alternative power sources for the home
look at what you use before looking at how to cut it

there are many ways to do this just research what you actually need first

[josh279]

Sorry m8 not quite true, because current is directly proportional to voltage, and inversly proportional to resistance, so if you reduce the voltage the current goes down..

A little knowledge is very dangerous Mahler.

I'm a sparky, voltage is inversely proportional to current and both are directly proportional to power, which is the important thing in this scenario. (what you said does hold true, but in a household wiring situation isn't the important part)

basically reduce your voltage, increase your current, burn out your cables in your house and burn your house to the ground. Which is the basics of what Meat said re the 110V transformer with a 240V powertool, you'd burn out the windings on the motor of the tool as it's drawing more current as there is a lower voltage.

European standard voltage is 230V with an allowed voltage drop of upto 3% in final circuits, i.e. house wiring.
In the UK our voltage is more often 240V to 250V, close enough to 230V for standard equipment to run.

Anyway back to the point, as power in watts is = voltage x current, you reduce your voltage to 220V, but the load current across your devices will increase proportionally as there power draw remains stable, therefore the power consumption shown at the metre doesn't alter no matter what the voltage is.

In order to reduce your voltage in the house you would have to insert a transformer between the meter and fuseboard, or have one after every circuit breaker. Either way you wuld have to be a qualified spark to fit one.

Sorry for the long winded answer, but what the bloke tried to sell you was exactly the same as one of those under the sink water purifiers, b*llocks.

The only way you will reduce your electricity consumption is turn things off, or swap them for lower wattage devices.

Josh

[Meat-Head]

basically reduce your voltage, increase your current, burn out your cables in your house and burn your house to the ground. Which is the basics of what Meat said re the 110V transformer with a 240V powertool, you'd burn out the windings on the motor of the tool as it's drawing more current as there is a lower voltage.


WHOA, HANG ON GUYS.

aN ELECTRICAL DEVICE, damm caps lock, will draw LESS currant on a lower voltage.

We forget the ac/dc thing.

Milk float, forklift, airport shuttle whatever (give or take) are 72 Volts
sake of argument - this will draw say 60 amps driving forward

600AH batterys sake of argument will last, say 10 hours.


Same milkfloat whatever, throw the electirc motor away and fit a 12volt motor. Sake of argument this will draw 600amps battery will last 1 hour.


Sake of argument kettle 2400 watts / 240 = 10 amps
Dumbass American kettle 2400 watts / 110 = 20 amps.

OFF TOPIC:

There is such thing as a 12volt microwave and kettle both draw approx 90 amps and take AGES to cook food. In therery this is a bad idea, but in reality best bet - cheap and nasty kettle from Tesco.com, use 2x inverters

ON TOPIC:


For those that can read and write and can do maths, work out the resistance of siad kettles above volts / currant = resistance, then rapply them figures to work out what a 240 kettle would draw on 110volts .

See who is spot on then.

Meat.

[dctyper]

It's bolox. If a device is designed for 240 and you feed it 220 then most modern devices will simply increase the current they take until they get to the power they need. You can't change what is supplied by the utility other than through a transformer or a switched mode power supply, both of which have less than 100% efficiency so they waste power.

UK supply is 230 not 240, it used to be 240 but was changed to bring it in-line with the rest of Europe. In practice they did nothing except change the tolerance as Europe's tolerance was wider than ours anyway.

Once the power is through the meter then it has been clocked. The only way to reduce that power is to bypass the meter one way or another and, in truth, is it really worth risking prison, death fire and all the other things that can happen just to save a few quid. :)



europe is 220 volts uk is 230 volts

dc

[skywash]

i've saved sh1tloads on my phone bills i cut the ~~~~ing wifes ears off.......lol

[mahler]

Hi guys as you know I'm new to this forum, and it seems a nice place to be, but I think it was probably a mistake for me to become involved in this thread, because "I havn't got a little knowledge" but rather a high level of theoretical and practicle knowledge of electronics and the less complicated subject of Electrical work is easy peasy to me.

I am a 57 year old advanced electronics equipment designer, and I would be pleased to advise you on facts, but it seem a waste of time with the fixed ideas held by some members in this thread.

Please carry on enjoying yourselves, and I'l keep out of it.

Regards mahler.

[Meat-Head]

Dont get your maths here with ohms law m8, your lower voltage american kettle is drawing twice as much current as your uk 1.

Sake of argument kettle 2400 watts / 240 = 10 amps
Dumbass American kettle 2400 watts / 110 = 20 amps.

I'm compuzzelled lol

Yeah, that's correct, lower voltage (in general) higher currant
BUT if you put the 240 volt kettle on 110v

a) will takes ages to boil - if at all
b) draws less currant.

Have a schooch round some usa sites see if you can 'find' a 110volt kettle to play with.

Sadly no idea what happened to it, but did 'gain' a 110 extension 'cord'
whilst on holiday in USA lol




Hi guys as you know I'm new to this forum, and it seems a nice place to be, but I think it was probably a mistake for me to become involved in this thread, because "I havn't got a little knowledge" but rather a high level of theoretical and practicle knowledge of electronics and the less complicated subject of Electrical work is easy peasy to me.




Welcome to DK the worlds best website, what's your answers

[Mjolinor]

Sorry m8 not quite true, because current is directly proportional to voltage, and inversly proportional to resistance, so if you reduce the voltage the current goes down.

This means because there has been no change to the device resistance to compensate for the reduced voltage the lower current flowing will produce a lower Amps times Volts resulting in lower wattage.

This means the meter would go round more slowly, but the device supplied in this way would not do the job it was designed to in the same amount of time, for instance an electric kettle would take longer to boil water, the hoover wouldn't suck up aswell, and lots of other houshold items would become irritating.

Regards mahler.

This is only true in linear, passive devices. Modern electronic is not linear or passive, how else do you expect that a power supply will run from both 110 and 230 with no changes, because the current goes up when the voltage goes down so that whatever is being powered is supplied with it's required amount of power.

[Mjolinor]

Only true for motors
Higher supply voltage, greater back EMF, less current. Lower supply voltage, smaller back EMF, higher current.

Resistive devices (kettles, heaters, filament lamps)
Lower voltage, lower current (same as it would be if DC devices were used). Less power used, probably doesn't work properly anymore. This is assuming it does increase the resistance of the element sufficiently otherwise you will get massive current and probably a fried supply or device

Electronics in general (including compact florescent / energy saver lamps)
Lower supply voltage, active compensation circuit, increased current.

[captainjim]

thanks for the replys boys,definately a no no on this one :congrats:

[dctyper]

Hi guys as you know I'm new to this forum, and it seems a nice place to be, but I think it was probably a mistake for me to become involved in this thread, because "I havn't got a little knowledge" but rather a high level of theoretical and practicle knowledge of electronics and the less complicated subject of Electrical work is easy peasy to me.

I am a 57 year old advanced electronics equipment designer, and I would be pleased to advise you on facts, but it seem a waste of time with the fixed ideas held by some members in this thread.

Please carry on enjoying yourselves, and I'l keep out of it.

Regards mahler.

welcome to the forum, this is one of many threads lol

doesnt take much to get us lot started lol

dc

[Canker_Canison]

Realistically there are only 2 ways of lowering your bills without going 'green'....

1) Use less electric. Buy a monitor or get one free from your supplier. This will show you when you use the most electric, then work on cutting it down.

2) Plan your usage. Try not to use a lot of electrical devices all at once. Running a washer\dryer, Electric oven, mircowave, kettle, hoover, etc all at the same time will use more electricity than if you used them one at a time.