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i_shot_the_sheriff
25th February, 2011, 07:35 AM
Dear DKians, :D

I'm an automotive engineer! Lately i've started "playing" with all this eprom and programming stuff!!
I've literally learnt all the stuff i know from DIGITAL KAOS and i have to thank you very very much for that!!!!!

The problem is i still can't find a complete guide or something for this whole thing!

I mean... i dunno even what this sooo famous "CHECKSUM" is. Or i have no idea of what is going on with the memory adresses when we read an eprom or a microcontroller!
Also... what about the editing of the bins i read???? How can i change the mileage by myself? Or how do people know in what memory adress does the immobilizer is stored :sheep:

I've searched the forum but i couldn't find a clear answer to many questions! Is there a tutorial or something that can make these questions clear to me? Or much better.. is there a tutorial or something for automotive applications?

I know it's a tiring thread... but i guess many noobs would like this thread if it's answered!! :D :D :D


With respect,
p0z3r

kop
25th February, 2011, 10:00 AM
I would be very intereated in this.

oldford
25th February, 2011, 12:34 PM
Have a look here for checksums: Checksum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checksum)

i_shot_the_sheriff
25th February, 2011, 12:49 PM
So by finding the Checksum of a binary i will be able to see if i have any mistakes after i edit it? It's like a diagnostic procedure or something?

oldford
25th February, 2011, 05:08 PM
After editing you have to correct the checksum. If it's not correct there will be a Diagnostic code set like P0601 and the car may not even start anymore.

i_shot_the_sheriff
25th February, 2011, 05:12 PM
Really???? I didn't even know that!!!!
So how do i do this? I reset the checksum as it was the first time? Is there a software or something that can do this?

1000tc
26th February, 2011, 03:35 PM
Ciao to all can try have this available one

ominimicu
26th February, 2011, 09:15 PM
you are an engineer nd you dont know a ting about programing?

Those are questions it took 2 years to fully understand.
Cheksum for utmobile industry is quite diferent: it is comprobation/verification sum, that none of the dat inside of the file has been altered or modified, or not original from the manufacturer.

An incorrect checksum will make the ECu non operative as it does not recognizez the file..th car wont start and in some cases it locks the ECU.

How do we know where the immo or km are?
it is called ASCI or ASCII.
you need to have some hexadecimal knowledge.

frontpager
27th February, 2011, 10:32 AM
To take this a step further is there any quick way to determine that a dataset runs km's or miles ?
At the moment I am just substituting an MPH dataset for a KM's one when I want to change the mileage display from one to the other. This works well when you have the required dataset but when you can't get one I am lost.
I have - by trial and error - changed data in blocks from one to the other to see what it does to the vehicle but this can be time consuming and I cant always work it out.
Two cases :
Ford Ka. Narrowed down the area within the dump that did effect the correct change and then narrowed it down to just changing an 84 to 8A and hey presto.
Toyota Avensis. Narrowed it down to 2 lines of data and substituted each byte one at a time but could not effect the required change. If I substitute the entire dump though the required change is perfect.
Now I know the answer here is to just replace entire dumps but when I cannot get the required dump then I'm stuck.

Pager.

i_shot_the_sheriff
28th February, 2011, 07:06 AM
ok! I will start on reading some basic thing for ASCI then! So.... you tell me that i must know ASCI..... then how can i determine what code i need to change?

ominimicu
28th February, 2011, 03:50 PM
there is software out there for hexadecimal editting, and most of them already include a hexadecimal to ASCII conversion. Just google some basic knowledge about it.

It will be of use when you dont have a software that tells you where is the address where km or immo etc are stored.

Ascii will interpret hexdecimal. for example you se FF 01 D3 blabla... in ASCII that would be the word "tunner" or ..a immo code, or km.

8k65m
28th February, 2011, 05:08 PM
My opinion, p0z3r asks about sharing the memories in dump different devices. Where what constants, tables and etc.
Only nobody does not want to reveal such information, or I have not yet found.

i_shot_the_sheriff
28th February, 2011, 05:48 PM
I dont ask for that things you talk about man! I just want some basic knowledge on programming!!
Thanks so much for the help!

redlinegarage
10th March, 2011, 03:43 PM
Hello everyone!

I think the main question of this topic is very important and many people really have that doubt.
As much as we know what is cheksum, doubt is not what it is or does.
The real question is how to do that does not give problem after the changes.
I think most know that it makes the calculation of file size and when it is more like the original, it creates an error.
Surely we have a friend here, who knows how to really solve this problem, which is not clearly explained even in the official Alientech manual.

What we ask is that this friend, explain to us, as after we made ***8203;***8203;the changes in the maps, solving the problems with the cheksum incorrect.

Thanks to anyone who can help and I hope that this topic is a source of knowledge that many seek and have not yet succeeded.

Many, many thanks!

ominimicu
10th March, 2011, 07:40 PM
keeping this short and to the point.
The Cheksum is an algorithm..a sum comprobation method established in our case ( automotive industry memories) by the ecu maker.

EG: 123, chksum =6
181 cheksum= 10

and so on..things get more complicated with additions, multiplying etc.. is pretty hard to determine what kind of formula the maker used to check the total sum of bits in the memory.

That is why there are special softwre for each ECU, car maker. memory etc.
they know the "formula" and automatically adjust it to get a correct sum of bits even if the modifications inside the file are bad and could damage the engine.

i_shot_the_sheriff
11th March, 2011, 06:02 AM
So, where do we get these software? I don't bet that car sellers sell this :P!!

ominimicu
11th March, 2011, 11:42 AM
no, winols, ecm, other software are capable.
or if you know hexadecimal and stuff..you can interpret it..and calculate it.

Diagnosticated
11th March, 2011, 12:50 PM
Does anyone know what checksum system is used for EDC15 and EDC16 ecu in VAG cars. I know most tuning tools can correct it on the fly, so the system information is obviously known to the tool makers.

nunomarcela
14th March, 2011, 03:33 PM
1000tc (http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/members/184760-1000tc/) does this file works on all types of ecu??

nunomarcela
14th March, 2011, 03:47 PM
thank you very much! you are the best!

tihiuvek
14th March, 2011, 04:54 PM
First at all:
1. playing with eeprom, flash ... can be dangerous (Airbag unit can activate explosive elements) so...
2. contest of one memory device can be different and depend of type of MCU in circuit
3. in order to know what are you doing it is obligatory knowledge of present MCU
4. proper Logic Analyzer of same kind of software to do that ( knowing of assembler and disassembler - needed)

slappala
17th March, 2011, 11:06 PM
Yes, best option would be to have real programmer hardware that will take care of the checksum calculations. Other option is to have a program that will do this after the map etc. modifications.

As I understand the processor will calculate the checksums with the right algorithms at start up and compare the results then with the memory hex file content in the right addresses. If these results don't match it will result in problems.

I guess the new ECU familyes can even cross check if the checksum is factory specific or not..

correct me if I?m wrong

aozcelik
31st March, 2011, 06:53 PM
Hi Everyone,

EEPROM Data contains every data required to manage the engine. There will be more than 100 maps or lookup table, more than 100 constant etc...
Everyone knows that there are 3 or 4 electronic diesel controller manufacturer. But more than 20 engine manufacturer uses these system. The difference between each engine manufacturer EEPROM data are these checksum, that is the clue of the encrypted EEPROM data. Make sure that the Electronic Diesel Controller manufacturers does not give any manual or any information regarding to the system algortim except the engine manufacturer or developer.
Note:If anyone have that kind of information, please send it to me.

Regards
ALi

eliotroyano
1st April, 2011, 03:24 AM
1000tc (http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/members/184760-1000tc/) does this file works on all types of ecu??


Hi 1000tc can you share that answer with us?

ecufix
5th April, 2011, 07:25 PM
Learning to program , to change kms or immo status is a long way around . Rather learn how to use some of the software available to accomplish the same goal. As stated this is the place to learn .Decide what you want to know then search and then ask .
Good luck regards

Twist
9th April, 2011, 02:26 AM
Ciao to all can try have this available one

Thanks man! :D

i_shot_the_sheriff
15th April, 2011, 07:24 AM
Learning to program , to change kms or immo status is a long way around . Rather learn how to use some of the software available to accomplish the same goal. As stated this is the place to learn .Decide what you want to know then search and then ask .
Good luck regards
Yeah but all these software are just .... hmmm simple!
Difficult is the interesting thing man!! ;)

Strykerforce
20th May, 2011, 03:49 PM
I guess in the REAL world we should be more practical and realistic. Do ONLY what is SAFE. If we are not GOOD at it Don't Do it....Coz every time we make modification in the ECU System Maps without the proper Software/applications and the ability to do it then that will leads to another problem. People who work on this are trained and do this for living and for life. lol... Just do it as a project at home and to your own car. peace m8's...

i_shot_the_sheriff
4th June, 2011, 08:19 PM
I guess in the REAL world we should be more practical and realistic. Do ONLY what is SAFE. If we are not GOOD at it Don't Do it....Coz every time we make modification in the ECU System Maps without the proper Software/applications and the ability to do it then that will leads to another problem. People who work on this are trained and do this for living and for life. lol... Just do it as a project at home and to your own car. peace m8's...

Yeah i agree! But sometime we must acquire that knowledge and become proffessionals! ;) We can't be proffessionals if we just tinker our own cars!
My opinion on that is... that we should proceed carefully and steady! We can't avoid mistakes!
Eventually we will "burn" 1 or 2 ecus! :stoned:
experience is the target!

pinkfloyd5eg
9th June, 2011, 05:12 AM
Yeah i agree! But sometime we must acquire that knowledge and become proffessionals! ;) We can't be proffessionals if we just tinker our own cars!
My opinion on that is... that we should proceed carefully and steady! We can't avoid mistakes!
Eventually we will "burn" 1 or 2 ecus! :stoned:
experience is the target!

I think the problem here is that ,there is no certain refrence to read and learn from about this car programming procedures cause most of them are manufacturers secrets and are not shared, I think the best way to learn here is to start using simple tools and software for simple programming applications, each time you will face many questions and problems (also you will gain much skills) , then you will have to search for answers and explanations for those problems, using free programmers such as UPA with customized pascal scripts would force anyone to learn to be able to add more functions and algorithms to his programmer, also using of software with orinted database such as ICo*immo cleaner which you build its database by hand ,would force you also to look at many dump files and compare bytes then you can get many IMMO blocks location saved in your mind while building that database, of course OBD tools are always needed ,but they are just as plug and play ,so you don't learn too much when using them.. summary of that long post, you have to start practically even with simple tasks for simple car made/models to upgrade your info day after day, there is no way to know it all in one time ,
that only was my personal opinion, may be right or wrong!!

thanks...

carclima
9th June, 2011, 01:25 PM
Learning to program , to change kms or immo status is a long way around . Rather learn how to use some of the software available to accomplish the same goal. As stated this is the place to learn .Decide what you want to know then search and then ask .
Good luck regards


Thats corect answer !!! at least I chose thiws way...none of us have all time in world to learn all stuff...and why ? there is so many algorithm,so many diferent formula...so I simply chose to learn how to use tool(hw/sw) for some specific yob..and thats all Iam interested...
If some of you chosse to work only dash for ex.vw maybe he can learn all about eproms/proc programing,checksum in this dashes...but we work on so many diferent car so I am prety satisfied IF I know what chip I searh and have somee calc.sw fo myne case....fo all other understanding why this byte is there sory...I dont have time

regards to all members on best world forum !

tonymc9
18th June, 2011, 04:35 AM
I've just joined and am frankly at once fascinated and at the same time frightened by the potential remapping introduces. I would like to know much more about this subject given my background in the computer industry, 25 years with big blue, and my particular penchant for Audi diesel engines. It seems to me that these could perform significantly better in the hands of a remapping expert. I will keep scouring the web and here to increase my spartan knowledge. Any suggestions would be most greatfully accepted and thank you guys for an excellent forum

pinkfloyd5eg
18th June, 2011, 07:33 PM
I've just joined and am frankly at once fascinated and at the same time frightened by the potential remapping introduces. I would like to know much more about this subject given my background in the computer industry, 25 years with big blue, and my particular penchant for Audi diesel engines. It seems to me that these could perform significantly better in the hands of a remapping expert. I will keep scouring the web and here to increase my spartan knowledge. Any suggestions would be most greatfully accepted and thank you guys for an excellent forum

just keep watching the new posts on the ECU + chip tuning forum ,you will need also to read a lot of discussions on the dashboard and immo forum , I believe you will at least find where to start from and what are you really MISSING ...

Good Luck.

hauntedbg
28th July, 2011, 08:14 PM
yes i think so too

trico
12th September, 2011, 10:43 AM
i think trying to decrypt the checksum or mileage algorithms is a real hard job, i spent 5 hours trying to locate key data on a 160bytes 05e6 eeprom with no success, ok i m not that smart but i used 2 bin and each one with corresponding key , i remember asking an ukranian guy and he said : if u don't know how to do it yourself then try more try harder..
right nw i need more money so i spend time in more lucrative subject and pay guys like bogi and ICC team and other genious for their excellent products