Website with picture of the evil Jon Venables

[flyingpig]

There is a website which shows pictures of Jon Venables how he is now, The site is dedicated to 'Children Have Rights In Society' and there is a video on youtube showing him and revealing his new name and where he has been living and working.

This person should not be given any freedom or right to hide. Please share this information and give him no place to hide.

[Shady]

cant get on the site.

[flyingpig]

I dont want to post a link and get DK into trouble - but the video is on youtube - search for
Jon Venables aka Paul Jon Williams Exposed


Also, it is on Facebook have a look at C.H.R.I.S on FB

[Shady]

ive asked.. ill post it if i get the ok m8

[j.efc]

that murderin scumbag should never of got out for what he did, good on you mate for sharing this

[reddevil157]

Bump.... ppl like this shouldn't get any peace, the more ppl see this the better

[Devilfish]

Please don't post any links on DK. I agree with what's been said and they shouldn't be allowed annonimity but an injuntion is an injunction and I'm not being prosecuted cause someones posted a link!

[Meat-Head]

but an injuntion is an injunction and I'm not being prosecuted cause someones posted a link!


Oh, so on that score is this accused person, he, and how did that info become public.

did this not happen, before, person of same name got accused of something he haddent did

[lagerland]

They will both get there just desserts sooner or later its just a matter of time........

[shearer9uk]

the scumbags.

[janobi]

While I agree the travesty these boys commited should of been punished more harshly, everyone seems to be forgetting that they were themselves children at the time of the incident.

While I agree they should of been punished more severly, I dont believe that the hate mob mentality is what is required to resolve this situation. Many innocent people have been affected because of people's beliefs or hunches.

There has been people who have commited much worse traversties than this, and who have suffered a lot less.

[SouthernComfort]

Two abused boys committed a heinous crime, they weren't born evil, the age of responsibility is there for a reason. Remember any one of the adults present that day could have prevented it.
Protecting him as an adult is wrong, he should be locked up for life or put to sleep.

[Bulld0g]

While I agree the travesty these boys commited should of been punished more harshly, everyone seems to be forgetting that they were themselves children at the time of the incident.

There has been people who have commited much worse traversties than this, and who have suffered a lot less.

How many 10 year olds going into senior school do you know who don't know it's wrong to kidnap and murder a baby ? They knew what they were doing.


Two abused boys committed a heinous crime, they weren't born evil, the age of responsibility is there for a reason. Remember any one of the adults present that day could have prevented it.
Protecting him as an adult is wrong, he should be locked up for life or put to sleep.
Thats why there are so many ~~~~in scumbags running around wih guns playing gangsters in this country, because people are always giving them the benefit of the doubt and it comes back to bite them on the arse time and time again.

I don't believe for one minute these two coonts were born innocent, they were born evil. Think back to when you were Ten years of age where you capable of killing a child ? These two never led a sheltered life they were probably more street wise than most teenagers are these days. The reason they got lenient sentences was because people argued they were children and didnt know right from wrong. It seems they still don't :dontknow:

[flyingpig]

Interesting article about the man who posted the links and pictures originally - Funnily enough the police are not investigating and have recieved no complaints. RESULT.

A CITY man has defended his decision to publish photos he claims expose the new identity of child killer Jon Venables. (http://www.thisisexeter.co.uk/news/City-man-defends-decision-publish-photos-Bulger-killer/article-3522436-detail/article.html)

[reddevil157]

Have to say... bollox to them not knowing what they were doin, what if it were your little boy....I know if it were mine, God forbid, I would av did everything possible to get the pair of cnuts topped in prison. And they get all the protection of the law when/if they get out, the law's an ass.

[SouthernComfort]

How many 10 year olds going into senior school do you know who don't know it's wrong to kidnap and murder a baby ? They knew what they were doing.


Thats why there are so many ~~~~in scumbags running around wih guns playing gangsters in this country, because people are always giving them the benefit of the doubt and it comes back to bite them on the arse time and time again.

I don't believe for one minute these two coonts were born innocent, they were born evil. Think back to when you were Ten years of age where you capable of killing a child ? These two never led a sheltered life they were probably more street wise than most teenagers are these days. The reason they got lenient sentences was because people argued they were children and didnt know right from wrong. It seems they still don't :dontknow:

I fully understand what it is like to come from somewhere, where guns on the streets are normality, so a few wannabe gangsters would be of little concern.
I also know children who were willing to kill for things they could never begin to comprehend, were they evil? Misguided maybe.
I know the abused go on to become abusers, perhaps those children weren't fortunate enough to have the upbringing most people had. Not making excuses for their actions but
it would sadden me to think a child could be born evil.

[janobi]

I guess judging someone from behind a keyboard is pretty easy. Remember we dont know the whole facts of any of this. And yet were all so quick to condemn these poor individuals. No-one is born evil, there is no such thing as good and evil, it is something we learn as we get older, and not something we are born with.

Its like fear, its taught, its not there from birth!

[j.efc]

these poor individuals, are you takin the piss

[SouthernComfort]

Murder in the UK - Serial Killers - Cannibals - Child Killers - Mass Murder (http://www.murderuk.com/child_killers_thompson_venables.html)

[janobi]

these poor individuals, are you takin the piss

We all make mistakes, we all do stuff wrong. Are you totally innocent, and have never done anything wrong in life? If so, then let ye be the first to cast the sword of damnation.

They were young kids when all this happened, and yes at that point they were poor individuals. What happens if this information is incorrect, and the person gets attacked and killed? Then it comes out, that the information was wrong, would the people then hand themselves in? No would they hell. And they would be no better than other killers of this world.

Join the hate mob mentality if you wish. I hear the EDL has openings too. We have a judicial system in the UK, you may not agree with the punishments that are given, but its still our system, its the rules we live by. Too often people are happy to bend/break those rules for what they think/believe is right.

This thread should be closed imo, it is neither informative, or helpful, and all it does it allow people to vent at a computer screen. If you want to make a difference in society, then become a doctor/policeman/teacher/social worker, and give something back to the adults of tomorrow. Instead of sitting at a PC, putting the world to rights.

"let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

One last point, the Guilford 4, the Birmingham 6 are just a few who have experienced the harsh reality of our judicial system. I wonder how many called for them to be hung, drawn and quatered at the time of those traversties. Yet they are now proven to be innocent......

[MrFug]

As a law student, I read about a lot of horrific crimes but nothing has ever disturbed and perplexed me like the Bulger case.

I agree with Janobi however. These types of threads aren't helpful at all. We have to keep in mind though that the judicial system has been developed over many years, by men and women much smarter than us, and it exists to ensure that the rules that govern us all are objective, fair and equitable. It doesn't always work like that and travesties do occur, but even people who rape, murder and commit all kinds of unthinkable acts are treated as fairly as possible - that's what makes us civilised.

P.S Since we're all feeling so righteous today, maybe those of us who are guilty should turn ourselves in for stealing subscription TV? :P

[cantona7]

big difference between killing and sexually assaulting a 2 year old boy and nicking a bit of free tv me thinks !!!!!!

i say kill the ~~~~ers and all the sick peados and dont call me civilised if that is all that matters

they should have no rights when they do things that sick and twisted

[Bulld0g]

Not making excuses for their actions

You could have fooled me.

[Bulld0g]

I guess judging someone from behind a keyboard is pretty easy. Remember we dont know the whole facts of any of this. And yet were all so quick to condemn these poor individuals. No-one is born evil, there is no such thing as good and evil, it is something we learn as we get older, and not something we are born with.

Its like fear, its taught, its not there from birth!

Are you for real ? Judging from behind a keyboard, poor individuals ? your either trolling for a reaction or seriuosly deluded if you even begin to believe that shite.

[barrowmanandrew]

I guess judging someone from behind a keyboard is pretty easy. Remember we dont know the whole facts of any of this. And yet were all so quick to condemn these poor individuals. No-one is born evil, there is no such thing as good and evil, it is something we learn as we get older, and not something we are born with.

Its like fear, its taught, its not there from birth!

must totally disagree,
there is no question here of guilt here.
there is cctv and aknowledgement of guilt.
no-one is disputing this FACT....

i doubt anyone could disagree,
the GUILTY party are GUILTY.

i am all for forgive and forget, but there is somethings that are UNFORGIVABLE....

any sane person that has kids must see that....

i don't give a shit how old they where when they murdered and mutilated the three year old child...

question.

anyone showing leniency to these child murdering animals..
would you feel the same if it was :

1. your child.
2: your grandchild.
3: your family.

lets not disrespect the poor murderd childs parents by excusing these animals...

give them no peace.... ~~~~in animals.....

[paul hick]

We all make mistakes, we all do stuff wrong. Are you totally innocent, and have never done anything wrong in life? If so, then let ye be the first to cast the sword of damnation.

They were young kids when all this happened, and yes at that point they were poor individuals. What happens if this information is incorrect, and the person gets attacked and killed? Then it comes out, that the information was wrong, would the people then hand themselves in? No would they hell. And they would be no better than other killers of this world.

Join the hate mob mentality if you wish. I hear the EDL has openings too. We have a judicial system in the UK, you may not agree with the punishments that are given, but its still our system, its the rules we live by. Too often people are happy to bend/break those rules for what they think/believe is right.

This thread should be closed imo, it is neither informative, or helpful, and all it does it allow people to vent at a computer screen. If you want to make a difference in society, then become a doctor/policeman/teacher/social worker, and give something back to the adults of tomorrow. Instead of sitting at a PC, putting the world to rights.

"let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

One last point, the Guilford 4, the Birmingham 6 are just a few who have experienced the harsh reality of our judicial system. I wonder how many called for them to be hung, drawn and quatered at the time of those traversties. Yet they are now proven to be innocent......
are you for real?lets get some kids to come round and kidnap,sexually assault then mutilate your child.lets hear you say "oh well,boys will be boys"
as much as your a respected poster on here all i think at the minute is your a prat(was going to put a lot worse but i aint getting banned from here because of some doogooder)

[ck-ok]

peronally i think people are born evil, there should be no hiding place for these two and they did alot more than just murder this poor defencless child they mutilated his body before killing him.
these two should of got life meaning life or better still death.

[setfiretorain]

I completely agree that what they done was a disgrace, myself I'm not old enough to remember but I've viewed many documentaries on the topic and have gathered a good knowledge of this awful event, and I believe if the authorities want to protect there identity, they should lock em up and let them live a life of misery!, or send them to a prison abroad, that would sort em out !

Regards.

[j.efc]

peronally i think people are born evil, there should be no hiding place for these two and they did alot more than just murder this poor defencless child they mutilated his body before killing him.
these two should of got life meaning life or better still death.
spot on mate

[MrFug]

If someone comitted comparable crimes on my child, I'd hunt them to the ends of the earth and kill them, regardless of age, sex, culpability etc.

But that doesn't make me right.

[cantona7]

If someone comitted comparable crimes on my child, I'd hunt them to the ends of the earth and kill them, regardless of age, sex, culpability etc.

But that doesn't make me right.

makes you right in my eye's mate

[barrowmanandrew]

If someone comitted comparable crimes on my child, I'd hunt them to the ends of the earth and kill them, regardless of age, sex, culpability etc.

But that doesn't make me right.

i disagree,
you would be well within your rights....

[cgscott]

Turn the tables had it happened to one of them what would they're mothers and fathers be saying. Exactly the same as the poor bulger family.

Personally anything like that happened to any child in my family i know for definite i would be going down for a life sentence.

Parenthood is a key thing. Something in these kids upbringing must have made them do this. As from that article they were only minutes from the police station and couldve handed the lad in but instead decided to take him up the railway beat him senseless and leave him to die on a train track.

Also states he did not die when they left him but later before the train hit him.

And to put the icing on the cake. One of the little bastards that done it is back in jail for child ~~~~ images.

Protected to the hilt. I say sling them in with the real criminals and see how long they last.

Unfortunately this is the way the prison system works here. Shame They never got shipped to an American jail. They would've been killed within a matter of days.

[pantomime horse]

couldn't agree more

put them in a room with 5 new mothers and wait half an hour

[SouthernComfort]

Well after reading the posts from all the innocents I must admit I've completely changed my mind. Should have killed the pair of them on the spot and not asked any questions, while you were at it, kill the parent who neglected her child not once but twice on the same day because he was agitated. Suppose we could kill the parents of the two boys because we know what they were up to, kill the relatives who beat and abused them. Probably should kill every adult who saw the boys on the day and did nothing. Once we set the precedent we could kill every child who murders directly or indirectly, then all the adults. Soon as your finished with that lot could start on all the accidental deaths. The possibilities are endless, funny thing when you point your finger there are always three pointing back.
What those two boys did on that day is one of the most horrific things I've ever encountered in my life but they were children, society failed them all.

[cgscott]

What those two boys did on that day is one of the most horrific things I've ever encountered in my life but they were children, society failed them all.

Not society. Parenthood and negligence.
We are not all responsible for what these children done.
Read the full article on what went on and try understand it.

These kids lied to parents about seeing or being anywhere near young bulger.

Obviously you dont have kids or they are grown up and deemed safe now.

PS. Innocent people don't get harm caused to them.

People who harm young kids should.

[maca]

scum kids scum family scum upbringing scum out come..rip james bulger.....

[barrowmanandrew]

Well after reading the posts from all the innocents I must admit I've completely changed my mind. Should have killed the pair of them on the spot and not asked any questions, while you were at it, kill the parent who neglected her child not once but twice on the same day because he was agitated. Suppose we could kill the parents of the two boys because we know what they were up to, kill the relatives who beat and abused them. Probably should kill every adult who saw the boys on the day and did nothing. Once we set the precedent we could kill every child who murders directly or indirectly, then all the adults. Soon as your finished with that lot could start on all the accidental deaths. The possibilities are endless, funny thing when you point your finger there are always three pointing back.
What those two boys did on that day is one of the most horrific things I've ever encountered in my life but they were children, society failed them all.


utter bollocks..
what do you mean by " all the innocents?"

are you insinuating we shouldnt judge because we have done wrong in the past????

are you seriously comparing normal behaviour to this barbaric act???

i am no angel, but i understand that killing a three year old child is very very wrong.
and yes they were children themselves when they did it, but that is no excuse,
they didnt steal his sweets ffs
, THEY BEAT HIM TO DEATH THEN PLACED HIM ON A RAILWAYTRACK TO BE CUT IN HALF".

are you for real?
how has "society" failed them?

judging by your post you have no children of your own,

would you forgive these "children" for murdering a three year old relative of yours....????

[SouthernComfort]

utter bollocks..
what do you mean by " all the innocents?"

are you insinuating we shouldnt judge because we have done wrong in the past????

are you seriously comparing normal behaviour to this barbaric act???

i am no angel, but i understand that killing a three year old child is very very wrong.
and yes they were children themselves when they did it, but that is no excuse,
they didnt steal his sweets ffs
, THEY BEAT HIM TO DEATH THEN PLACED HIM ON A RAILWAYTRACK TO BE CUT IN HALF".

are you for real?
how has "society" failed them?

judging by your post you have no children of your own,

would you forgive these "children" for murdering a three year old relative of yours....????

What would you do then?

[Lainie]

id have kept the 2 of them in a cell in solitary for life and never let them out. they should never have got out never mind new identies. the fact that jon venables reoffended again esp child ~~~~ should have lost him the protected identity that has cost the taxpayers hundreds of thousands of pounds.

[reddevil157]

Dress it up how you want, but there's absolutely no excusing what these pair of bastards did to a baby ffs. I've 2 boy's, one's 3, the other is 6, and through my eye's, there is nothing that would stop me from getting at these, or anyone, if they did harm to any of my kids. I guess you've gotta have kids to understand where a lot of us are coming from.

[barrowmanandrew]

What would you do then?
__________________
"What we've got here is failure to communicoin



i'm not sure,
but i wouldn't forgive and absolve them of their crimes.

i believe most people deserve a second chance,
but now and again you come across situations that are just unforgivable.

its a very difficult situation, i do not think they should be released from prison, ever...

they certainly do not deserve the protection lavished upon them....

[maca]

This discussion should'nt even be taking place how anyone can try and defend such a evil pair of coonts is beyond me...

[Lainie]

Dress it up how you want, but there's absolutely no excusing what these pair of bastards did to a baby ffs. I've 2 boy's, one's 3, the other is 6, and through my eye's, there is nothing that would stop me from getting at these, or anyone, if they did harm to any of my kids. I guess you've gotta have kids to understand where a lot of us are coming from.

completely disagree red. i dont have kids and i hate those scumbags as much as you.

[SouthernComfort]

Dress it up how you want, but there's absolutely no excusing what these pair of bastards did to a baby ffs. I've 2 boy's, one's 3, the other is 6, and through my eye's, there is nothing that would stop me from getting at these, or anyone, if they did harm to any of my kids. I guess you've gotta have kids to understand where a lot of us are coming from.

Not dressing anything up, nor making excuses but I would try to understand so that it could never happen again. I find it ironic that killing children is the answer to killing children. There are many things most of us will never understand but we should make the effort.
My point mainly was how many opportunities there were to prevent this horrible act, can everyone here put their hand on their heart and say they would have acted differently.

[reddevil157]

Not dressing anything up, nor making excuses but I would try to understand so that it could never happen again. I find it ironic that killing children is the answer to killing children. There are many things most of us will never understand but we should make the effort.
My point mainly was how many opportunities there were to prevent this horrible act, can everyone here put their hand on their heart and say they would have acted differently.If it's not too personal m8, have you got kids ?

[barrowmanandrew]

Not dressing anything up, nor making excuses but I would try to understand so that it could never happen again. I find it ironic that killing children is the answer to killing children. There are many things most of us will never understand but we should make the effort.
My point mainly was how many opportunities there were to prevent this horrible act, can everyone here put their hand on their heart and say they would have acted differently.

i've read this a few times now, i'm sure i must be reading it wrong,
what do you mean by "can everyone here put their hand on their heart and say they would have acted differently"?

[SouthernComfort]

If it's not too personal m8, have you got kids ?
It is personal as are some of the comments here relating to the death of relatives, any of your relatives been murdered?


i've read this a few times now, i'm sure i must be reading it wrong,
what do you mean by "can everyone here put their hand on their heart and say they would have acted differently"?
How many people could have prevented it, the facts are well established, numerous people could have prevented it and did nothing.

[barrowmanandrew]

It is personal as are some of the comments here relating to the death of relatives, any of your relatives been murdered?

yes, i have had a 2 close relatives murdered....

[reddevil157]

No, none been murdered, thank God

[SouthernComfort]

yes, i have had a 2 close relatives murdered....

Did you murder those responsible?

[barrowmanandrew]

Did you murder those responsible?


what utter bullshit you post...

on your last post you said it was too personal a question to ask if you had kids, then you come out with nonsense like that...

no right minded person would make a post like that,

you are either an idiot or a troll......

[opsmonkey]

The problem with society today is that there are too many leftie hippy Liberal dicks who are more concerned with human rights rather than victims rights..

This country needs to go back to 70s style policing and capital punishment..

[SouthernComfort]

what utter bullshit you post...

on your last post you said it was too personal a question to ask if you had kids, then you come out with nonsense like that...

no right minded person would make a post like that,

you are either an idiot or a troll......

It was a rhetorical question as I know you didn't which makes your point baseless, some people are so quick to say "I would do this or that" but when it comes down to it very few are capable. Excuse me if I find most of the comments made ludicrous but i suppose until you are in that situation it would be hard to comment.
No point trying to convince me you could kill two ten year old kids.

[barrowmanandrew]

It was a rhetorical question as I know you didn't which makes your point full of sh*t, you have no idea what you are talking about so quick to say "I would do this or that" but when it comes down to it very few are capable. Excuse me if I find most of the comments made ludicrous but i suppose until you are in that situation it would be hard to comment.


1. it looked like a direct question to me.... maybe make that clearer in your next post.

2. in which post did i say "i would do this, and i would do that"?
i don''t remeber saying anything like that.

3. "you have no idea what your talking about"

you don't know the first thing about me or my background,
so for you to pass comment like that on me , its fair to say you dont know what your talking about.....

4. which comments do you find ludicrous?
can u be more specific?

[SouthernComfort]

1. it looked like a direct question to me.... maybe make that clearer in your next post.

2. in which post did i say "i would do this, and i would do that"?
i don''t remeber saying anything like that.

3. "you have no idea what your talking about"

you don't know the first thing about me or my background,
so for you to pass comment like that on me , its fair to say you dont know what your talking about.....

4. which comments do you find ludicrous?
can u be more specific?
"
You would be well within your rights to murder two ten year olds"
Think you may be wrong unless things have changed since i last checked.
Anything relating to murder as a response to murder, it doesnt work.

[satsmo]

The topic at hand though debatable is left open as a thread to do so.

Please remember to respect each other and as such I am asking people to calm down and return to the topic at hand without "personal" remarks.

[SouthernComfort]

The topic at hand though debatable is left open as a thread to do so.

Please remember to respect each other and as such I am asking people to calm down and return to the topic at hand without "personal" remarks.
Apologies satsmo, never intended for it to get personal, will retract some of what i said but the issue is quite sensitive.
Apologies also BM but some things irritate me.

[barrowmanandrew]

" to murder two ten year olds"
Think you may be wrong unless things have changed since i last checked.
Anything relating to murder as a response to murder, it doesnt work.

it was a reply to a previous post,
the poster commented on how he would react to anyone who attacked his family in a similar manner.
as i father of a young family i can understand his views,
i never mentioned murdering 10 year olds, but i take your point...
of course i would never dream of such a thing, but as you said its an emotive issue, which gets me worked up too.

i apologise for being personal in previous posts.

[SouthernComfort]

I appreciate everyones points, as a parent you must do everything in your power to protect your children. I also have first hand experience of the devastation such things cause.
So many young lives are wasted, my comments about society sort of directly relate to the circumstances of the case. So many people saw a young child in distress and just ignored or were too busy to intervene. It's sad to think any one of them could have prevented it.
I know it may seem I am defending their actions but I'm not, far from it, what they did was inexcusable but they were kids.
After the trial I read all the evidence that was available and the whole case was sick. Before that day they were victims, they were abused by those closest to them, the actions of those around them helped create the monsters they became.
I struggle to think of any ten year old being capable of such an act but I was never the victim of abuse.
You only have to look at some of the more recent cases to see some of the animals that are parents, how that affects those children we will never know.
Protecting them is wrong, especially as adults but whats the alternative, capital punishment was abolished in 1969 in GB, if people want to change that they need to act.
I could happily put Mr Williams to sleep but I know I wouldn't resolve anything and yes I would probably react like everyone else in this thread but I've also seen where that leads.

[janobi]

Well, I have read through 2 pages of abuse since my last post, and am suprised that I have been called a troll by a mod! Not once have I posted a personal opinion, I have tried to be objective on this whole situation, which seems a lot of people are not being.

At no point did I say I agreed with what the 2 killers did, nor how they have been treated afterwards. However, this mob mentality is not what governs us, the people of the UK.

People have mentioned corporal punishment and death penalties, yet this has been proven not to work. Just look at the US Judicial system, they have much higher crime rates than anywhere, and the death sentence is prevelant there.

Yes these 2 boys killed a child, and that is something that should never be forgotten. However, they were children themselves, I personally would question the upbringing they had, the family they grew up in, the environment they were living in. All of this could give reasons as to why these individuals commited this travesty. And yes it was a travesty!!

We society have to take some responsibility for how our children are or act. How many here allow children to watch older films that there age, or play games that have a higher rating than there actual age? Could this lead to violent behaviour in later life? Who knows?

Aldus Huxley's A brave new World talks of a savage being taken from his land, and made to perform for the civilised people, and when he escapes, they hunt him down. Who are the savages in the book? The savage himself, or the civilised people?

Whats my point? By casting damnation, and calling for someone to be killed because they have wronged you or commited a crime against you, does that not make you a savage, just like the savage who commited the original crime?

Crime is crime, and laws are laws. We have to abide by them, one and all. Yet many here think its ok to break laws as it suits them, then accuse others because they have commited a crime that they feel is heinous. Seems a bit hypocritical to me :)

As I said earlier, Let he who hath no sin, cast the first stone!

[Shady]

I've just asked my 2 kids whether killing someone is good or naughty, they are 4 and 7 years old, they both gave the same answer 'naughty'.
So don't anyone try and tell me that them two little bastards didnt know what they were doing was wrong.

[irishbluestaffy]

listen m8 i don't think u live in the real world crime is crime but there is petty crime and so on,as for upbringing police officers have children who grow up to b drug addicts royals taking drugs so i think yr wrong there children can come from very bad eares and do so well in life,so i would say yes its in them to b this way as for growing up to b a police officer there all bent and corrupt and they have caused many deaths they r a law onto themselves,doctors drug addicts giving wrong medicine touching up there Patience,teachers pedoes and so on,so wake up m8 and smell the coffee

[SouthernComfort]

I've just asked my 2 kids whether killing someone is good or naughty, they are 4 and 7 years old, they both gave the same answer 'naughty'.
So don't anyone try and tell me that them two little bastards didnt know what they were doing was wrong.
Fair enough, could you also ask two children of similar age, who were raped or beaten by their parents, family or friends.
Apologies if my point is blunt but who taught them what was right and wrong?
Many of the effects of child abuse are well documented, put yourself in that situation, the people closest to you hurt you, those you look up to cause you constant pain and suffering, what do you learn from that?
Feel I need to reiterate the point that I'm not making excuses for their actions just trying to understand what made them capable.
If i were to agree with what you were saying then that means anyone heres children are capable of the same , that it could somehow be an inherent quality.

[Shady]

no mate..you're right, lets blame the parents, lets blame society, lets blame (i believe it was 'childs play') movie. lets blame mortal kombat, ANYTHING not to blame them little pair of evil coonts. My point is.. They KNEW what they was doing was wrong.. they did the ~~~~er ANYWAY. too right.. string em up.. torture the little bastards.. quick death would be too good for them

[SouthernComfort]

So we take them to the streets and you torture them to death.
OK I'm with you now, how silly of me. Now you've made it clear I fully understand, do the same rules apply to everything or specific cases?

[Lainie]

i agree they were fully aware of what they were doing and should rot in hell. please remember we are not just protecting those 2 but their families as well. as they are adults they could marry a relative of yours - now who in their right mind would be happy at (or find it acceptable) that if they knew who they really were!

[Bulld0g]

Well, I have read through 2 pages of abuse since my last post, and am suprised that I have been called a troll by a mod! Not once have I posted a personal opinion,

I posted my response as a member not as a mod, it was my personal opinion and moderation never came into it so i don't know why you felt the need to mention that.
"I guess judging someone from behind a keyboard is pretty easy. Remember we dont know the whole facts of any of this. And yet were all so quick to condemn these poor individuals. No-one is born evil, there is no such thing as good and evil, it is something we learn as we get older, and not something we are born with."
Who's opinion was that by the way if it wasn't yours ?

[Shady]

So we take them to the streets and you torture them to death.
OK I'm with you now, how silly of me. Now you've made it clear I fully understand, do the same rules apply to everything or specific cases?

well obviously not, now you're just being facetious.

the law has punishments that correspond to the severity of any crime.. mine and others feelings are that any crime against children should be punished even more than the law allows currently.

[SouthernComfort]

well obviously not, now you're just being facetious.

the law has punishments that correspond to the severity of any crime.. mine and others feelings are that any crime against children should be punished even more than the law allows currently.

Do something about it then, your opinion is just that, as is mine, it's easy to say what you would do with no experience, hopefully no one here will ever have to make such a decision but things like this do happen, its how we deal with them that matters.

[flyingpig]

Just my two pence worth.

Those 2 killers have served 7 years in jail (sorry cushy institution because it wasn't jail) for one of the most sickest and vile murders our generation has seen. Jail is about punishment and also trying to stop people re-offending by changing their behaviour. The individuals concerned in my opinion (and many others as well) have not been punished enough for their crime regardless of how old they were when they committed it.

They have also had better lives than most people who are law abiding citizens - how can that be just? They also should not be allowed to hide in society with new identities - they committed the crime now live with the consequences.

Always try to think of it and how you would feel if it was your kid they had carried out those vile things on. BTW Have people forgotten what those 2 did?

[lagerland]

Its all getting a bit silly now aint it dont 4get what an opinion is ....
a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.........

[SouthernComfort]

Some of the most intelligent people in the world, relating to the subject, have debated this very same issue, the outcome we have seen. If anyone has a better proposal, what is stopping you from putting it forward. Draw up a petition for harsher punishments and I will be more than happy to sign, you may struggle to get the torture aspects through (U.N.C.A.T) but nothing stopping you from trying.

[tshirtman]

There is another option,
Stick them on a section 37/41 of the mental health act, that would put them on a much tighter licence, also they could in theory be kept locked up for the rest of there lives,
If you read what they actually did to Jamie Bulger, they cannot have full mental capacity, as in the case of Mary Bell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Bell)

[janobi]

I posted my response as a member not as a mod, it was my personal opinion and moderation never came into it so i don't know why you felt the need to mention that.
"I guess judging someone from behind a keyboard is pretty easy. Remember we dont know the whole facts of any of this. And yet were all so quick to condemn these poor individuals. No-one is born evil, there is no such thing as good and evil, it is something we learn as we get older, and not something we are born with."
Who's opinion was that by the way if it wasn't yours ?

When a mod, all posts are posted as a mod. And no where in that whole sentence have I said this is my opinion. Where did I say "I think?"

Would you not agree:

A. We dont know the whole facts of everything that has gone on with this case?
B. Morals are taught, and not something were born with?

As stated earlier, I have been objective throughout this whole conversation, rather than just saying to hang them!

[cantona7]

wether morals are taught / learnt through life or what ever....

if the little bassads did it to my family i'd eventually find em and kill and then smile every day in prison as it would be worth it

and as to the earlier post i "would" be executioner to peados and kiddy fiddlers and would be able to sleep soundly every night to

[Shady]

A. We dont know the whole facts of everything that has gone on with this case?

we don't need to know the FULL facts.. we know they took that kid, they tortured that kid and that they through their actions were responsible for the death of that kid.
I am afriad you will NEVER get parents to agree with your points, because a parents empathy whenever a kid is hurt turns to vengeance...

[nara]

The Keyboard Cowboys are having a ball on this thread! :eek:

[janobi]

we don't need to know the FULL facts.. we know they took that kid, they tortured that kid and that they through their actions were responsible for the death of that kid.
I am afriad you will NEVER get parents to agree with your points, because a parents empathy whenever a kid is hurt turns to vengeance...

So an eye for an eye? If our world was still governed like this, then we would of all been dead long ago.

And judging without all the facts is an informed judgement. I aint going to post again, as the general consensus of this thread is the mob mentality, and vigilante society. Kill everyone that has ever wronged you!!

How quickly we would descend into chaos!

[Bulld0g]

When a mod, all posts are posted as a mod. And no where in that whole sentence have I said this is my opinion. Where did I say "I think?"

Would you not agree:

A. We dont know the whole facts of everything that has gone on with this case?
B. Morals are taught, and not something were born with?

As stated earlier, I have been objective throughout this whole conversation, rather than just saying to hang them!

First of all on this forum, all posts are not posted by a mod as a mod that's what makes our forum the best. onto your post now,unless you get the report of the case and read every detail you wont know what's in the report, however the case was reported daily in the media and i think we all know what happened, so we had all the facts just not all the gory details.
One thing we do know is the right people were arrested, tried and found guilty. There is no doubt those Two were guilty.

If they didn't know it was wrong what they done, why did they try to dispose of the body and deny it was them who killed him ? Surely if they didn't know it was wrong they wouldn't deny doing it. Unless of course they were lying and they knew all along it was wrong. What do you think, were they lying or did they know full well it was wrong.

And finally who's opinion was it that they were quick to condemn those poor souls, wasn't it yours ?

[xant14]

So an eye for an eye? If our world was still governed like this, then we would of all been dead long ago.

And judging without all the facts is an informed judgement. I aint going to post again, as the general consensus of this thread is the mob mentality, and vigilante society. Kill everyone that has ever wronged you!!

How quickly we would descend into chaos!

I would welcome 'an eye for an eye' law... get rid of the bad genes that are present in this country.
Thats one thing the Muslims wanted to bring here, a shira (gotta have spelt this wrong) law, and every ~~~~er up in arms about it. Bring it! chop ~~~~ers hands off that rob, kill the vermin that kill others.

[janobi]

First of all on this forum, all posts are not posted by a mod as a mod that's what makes our forum the best. onto your post now,unless you get the report of the case and read every detail you wont know what's in the report, however the case was reported daily in the media and i think we all know what happened, so we had all the facts just not all the gory details.
One thing we do know is the right people were arrested, tried and found guilty. There is no doubt those Two were guilty.

If they didn't know it was wrong what they done, why did they try to dispose of the body and deny it was them who killed him ? Surely if they didn't know it was wrong they wouldn't deny doing it. Unless of course they were lying and they knew all along it was wrong. What do you think, were they lying or did they know full well it was wrong.

And finally who's opinion was it that they were quick to condemn those poor souls, wasn't it yours ?

We know what was reported. The media do not always write the truth. They write what sells papers, there is a big difference.

I totally agree that the right people were arrested, and convicted, and imprisoned accordingly.

You catch a kid red handed doing something wrong, and they will still deny it to the hilt. Thats kids for you!

I would re-read the post that I made, that you are referring too. As its not an opinion that is stated, its an observation, of how quick everyone was to condemn those involved.

However I have noticed, that you have failed to respond to any single point I have made, yet have chosen to try and highlight my failings? And I would say its a little egotistical of you to say this is the best forum around ;)

[Shady]

And I would say its a little egotistical of you to say this is the best forum around ;)

but TRUE nevertheless lol

[SouthernComfort]

What do you do if it's your child who commits the offence?
Evil is an inherent quality, your circumstances have no effect on your behaviour or rationale, fair enough.
Your child lobs a brick off a bridge and seriously injures or kills someone, will you volunteer them for hanging or torture to death, obviously they fully understand the consequences of their actions, right?


that's what makes our forum the best.
Shocked, something we agree on

[Shady]

hardly a like for like simile is it? throwing a brick compared to what that scum did?

[SouthernComfort]

What's different, end result is the same, does that parent grieve less? Is that child any less culpable?
If you threw a brick first and your kid 'copied daddy', would you feel equal responsibility?

[Bulld0g]

Shocked, something we agree on

We probably agree on a lot of things m8, just not this topic ;)

[Shady]

if a child maliciously throws a half ender intending to kill someone, then of course they are as culpable.. however, you cannot compare what them 2 did with that.. they ~~~~ing TORTURED HIM!!!!!!! THEY TOOK HIM FROM HIS MOM AND HAD HIM SCARED SHITLESS FOR ~~~~ KNOWS HOW LONG.
THEY THEN PROCEEDED TO TORTURE HIM, AND LEFT HIM FOR DEAD ON A RAILWAY LINE KNOWING WHAT WOULD HAPPEN NEXT!
Whether you agree or not.. they DESERVE a similiar fate

[Bulld0g]

We know what was reported. The media do not always write the truth. They write what sells papers, there is a big difference.

I totally agree that the right people were arrested, and convicted, and imprisoned accordingly.

You catch a kid red handed doing something wrong, and they will still deny it to the hilt. Thats kids for you!

I would re-read the post that I made, that you are referring too. As its not an opinion that is stated, its an observation, of how quick everyone was to condemn those involved.

However I have noticed, that you have failed to respond to any single point I have made, yet have chosen to try and highlight my failings? And I would say its a little egotistical of you to say this is the best forum around ;)

Ah so it's an observation now ? you observed they were poor souls, the real poor souls are the baby's parents, having to live their lives knowing the full facts of what happened to their baby. The two monsters are not poor souls at all, infact one has shown he's into paedophilia and thats after all the mollycoddling the coont got from day one.

Being from the same place as the Bulgers are you hear more from friends of their family that you know so you don't need the press to tell you what they want in order to sell papers. You have one big failing as far as i can see and that is you really believe THEY are poor souls.

As far as it being egotistical of me to say DK is the best forum around, it is lol I have and still am a member of most of the forums and whilst i still go on them frequently, there is none come even close to this :D

[MrFug]

get rid of the bad genes that are present in this country.

You realise that's exactly what Hitler thought he was doing?

[Shady]

knew godwins law would raise its head somewhere in this thread lol

[MrFug]

knew godwins law would raise its head somewhere in this thread lol

Indeed :) - It was hardly an arbitrary comparison though, he sounded like the fuhrer himself.

[Shady]

in cases like this.. thats not exactly a bad thing...

[Kalipo]

knew godwins law would raise its head somewhere in this thread lol

For those not in the know;


Godwin's Law - "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely recognised codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.

[SouthernComfort]

if a child maliciously throws a half ender intending to kill someone, then of course they are as culpable.. however, you cannot compare what them 2 did with that.. they ~~~~ing TORTURED HIM!!!!!!! THEY TOOK HIM FROM HIS MOM AND HAD HIM SCARED SHITLESS FOR ~~~~ KNOWS HOW LONG.
THEY THEN PROCEEDED TO TORTURE HIM, AND LEFT HIM FOR DEAD ON A RAILWAY LINE KNOWING WHAT WOULD HAPPEN NEXT!
Whether you agree or not.. they DESERVE a similiar fate

All I can do is compare, cases like this are so rare no one really knows how to handle them. As a child with no boundaries what would you have been capable of?
If thats all you knew, how would you act?
Although rare in this country, there are cases in other parts of the world where children have carried out much more despicable acts.
Look at the children in the Congo, Somalia, Sierra Leone, Zimbabwe......., are they all evil?

[Shady]

again.. making wide ranging similes that have no comparison.. those countries are ~~~~ing war zones! where a lot of the time its kill or be killed.. these coonts grew up in liverpool! hardly the ~~~~ing same is it?

[SouthernComfort]

again.. making wide ranging similes that have no comparison.. those countries are ~~~~ing war zones! where a lot of the time its kill or be killed.. these coonts grew up in liverpool! hardly the ~~~~ing same is it?
The point is valid, as for your second point, matter of opinion.

[Bulld0g]

All I can do is compare, cases like this are so rare no one really knows how to handle them. As a child with no boundaries what would you have been capable of?
If thats all you knew, how would you act?
Although rare in this country, there are cases in other parts of the world where children have carried out much more despicable acts.
Look at the children in the Congo, Somalia, Sierra Leone, Zimbabwe......., are they all evil?

Your talking about what may be the norm in those parts of the world, a way of life everyone is brought up in.
are you suggesting those Two were brought up in isolation by evil parents and none of it is their fault.
You see kids brought up in a similar enviroment everyday and they don't kidnap and murder a baby. This has got nothing to do with enviroment and upbringing they are just plain evil. Was Brady and Hindley misguided, was society to blame for them. Is society to blame for every murderer, rapist and paedophile. It's something we see more and more these days, offenders being excused and society being blamed.

[SouthernComfort]

Inadvertently yes, everyone plays their role, not once did I say what they did wasn't wrong. My point is they were children and were not at the same level of understanding as you or I.
If they were evil I can't believe they were born that way, they were made into monsters.
It seems the majority of people here would have been quite happy to torture them to death, surely even you can see the irony of that statement.
I understand location may be a huge factor here just trying to think rationally, I agree the sentences were lenient but what else can you do?, murder them, where do you stop?.
Every parent who looses a child, everyone who looses a family member, a favourite pet, your prized car?
The reason I use those other examples is that it's all we really have to compare to, it clearly shows what people without boundaries are capable of thats all.

[Bulld0g]

Inadvertently yes, everyone plays their role, not once did I say what they did wasn't wrong. My point is they were children and were not at the same level of understanding as you or I.
If they were evil I can't believe they were born that way, they were made into monsters.
It seems the majority of people here would have been quite happy to torture them to death, surely even you can see the irony of that statement.
I understand location may be a huge factor here just trying to think rationally, I agree the sentences were lenient but what else can you do?, murder them, where do you stop?.
Every parent who looses a child, everyone who looses a family member, a favourite pet, your prized car?
The reason I use those other examples is that it's all we really have to compare to, it clearly shows what people without boundaries are capable of thats all.

What do you mean surely even i can see that, coont lol The sentences were less than lenient. Even when they were being interviewed they were given games consoles to play on between interviews and were handled with kid gloves throughout.
The very fact they were treated like innocent children from day one and given everything a lot of normal kids would never have after they were sentenced pissed people off. Add that to the fact that one of them has reoffended in the most despicable way and you can see why people hate them and the weak judicial system that's in place.
I don't expect children to have a level of understanding akin to an adult but do you really believe they didn't know what they were doing was wrong ?

[SouthernComfort]

What do you mean surely even i can see that, coont lol The sentences were less than lenient. Even when they were being interviewed they were given games consoles to play on between interviews and were handled with kid gloves throughout.
The very fact they were treated like innocent children from day one and given everything a lot of normal kids would never have after they were sentenced pissed people off. Add that to the fact that one of them has reoffended in the most despicable way and you can see why people hate them and the weak judicial system that's in place.
I don't expect children to have a level of understanding akin to an adult but do you really believe they didn't know what they were doing was wrong ?
Again comes back to boundaries, how many things did you do as a child you knew were wrong?
How many times did you lie?
How many things did you try to cover up?
Our jails are full of people living 'cushy' lives who were fully aware of their actions. Many of them, most here would struggle to do anything about.
Like i have said, easy to say what you would do unless in that situation.

[Bulld0g]

Again comes back to boundaries, how many things did you do as a child you knew were wrong?
How many times did you lie?
How many things did you try to cover up?
Our jails are full of people living 'cushy' lives who were fully aware of their actions. Many of them, most here would struggle to do anything about.
Like i have said, easy to say what you would do unless in that situation.

Ok m8 i'll agree to disagree, obviously your a sympathiser for the guilty and i have none for those Two evil bastards.

[MrFug]

I think it's ridiculous to say that children are 'born evil'. It's a simple-minded, absurd idea advanced by people who simply can't comprehend the actions of others, and fail to appreciate the confluence of factors that cause such actions - the 'born evil' notion is simply a lazy, half-witted fallback.

Yes, people are born genetically predisposed to certain tendancies, but this doesn't mean that their future is mapped out and they'll inevitably succumb to some inherent destructive behaviour.

Ultimatley, what defines us is how we interpret and respond to the external influences during our upbringing. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but lets be honest, it's evident in society and clearly observable in the communities we live in: bad parents create bad kids. Yet parenting is just one factor, albeit a prominent one, in shaping our personalities.

Would Jon Venables have killed a child had he been raised in a leafy suburb of England by professionals who lavished love and affection on him?

I see this so patently in Northern Ireland. The vast majority of young men who join the IRA are from hardened republican areas, and likewise, loyalist recruits are raised in staunchly loyalist areas. Had the same individuals been raised in politcally neutral, middle-class esates I have no doubt their lives would have followed a very different path.

Nobody knows why those two boys choose to murder Jamie Bulger. However, we can be sure of one thing, whatever compelled them to commit this horrible act, they weren't born with it.

[Bulld0g]

I think it's ridiculous to say that children are 'born evil'. It's a simple-minded, absurd idea advanced by people who simply can't comprehend the actions of others, and fail to appreciate the confluence of factors that cause such actions - the 'born evil' notion is simply a lazy, half-witted fallback.

Yes, people are born genetically predisposed to certain tendancies, but this doesn't mean that their future is mapped out and they'll inevitably succumb to some inherent destructive behaviour.

Ultimatley, what defines us is how we interpret and respond to the external influences during our upbringing. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but lets be honest, it's evident in society and clearly observable in the communities we live in: bad parents create bad kids. Yet parenting is just one factor, albeit a prominent one, in shaping our personalities.

Would Jon Venables have killed a child had he been raised in a leafy suburb of England by professionals who lavished love and affection on him?

I see this so patently in Northern Ireland. The vast majority of young men who join the IRA are from hardened republican areas, and likewise, loyalist recruits are raised in staunchly loyalist areas. Had the same individuals been raised in politcally neutral, middle-class esates I have no doubt their lives would have followed a very different path.

Nobody knows why those two boys choose to murder Jamie Bulger. However, we can be sure of one thing, whatever compelled them to commit this horrible act, they weren't born with it.

I'd like to read your paper on these findings, i'm assuming your an expert. Seeing as you have determined people with certain views are half wits and people who live in leafy suburbs are incapable of murder as opposed to those brought up on council estates. At least i've got a good excuse now if i decide to murder someone, i'm a halfwit who was born in a non leafy suburb so it's societies fault.

[SouthernComfort]

I think it's ridiculous to say that children are 'born evil'. It's a simple-minded, absurd idea advanced by people who simply can't comprehend the actions of others, and fail to appreciate the confluence of factors that cause such actions - the 'born evil' notion is simply a lazy, half-witted fallback.

Yes, people are born genetically predisposed to certain tendancies, but this doesn't mean that their future is mapped out and they'll inevitably succumb to some inherent destructive behaviour.

Ultimatley, what defines us is how we interpret and respond to the external influences during our upbringing. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, but lets be honest, it's evident in society and clearly observable in the communities we live in: bad parents create bad kids. Yet parenting is just one factor, albeit a prominent one, in shaping our personalities.

Would Jon Venables have killed a child had he been raised in a leafy suburb of England by professionals who lavished love and affection on him?

I see this so patently in Northern Ireland. The vast majority of young men who join the IRA are from hardened republican areas, and likewise, loyalist recruits are raised in staunchly loyalist areas. Had the same individuals been raised in politcally neutral, middle-class esates I have no doubt their lives would have followed a very different path.

Nobody knows why those two boys choose to murder Jamie Bulger. However, we can be sure of one thing, whatever compelled them to commit this horrible act, they weren't born with it.

The response of an educated law student, thank you, I'll say it again, any one of the adults that day could have prevented it.
How those people acted on that day played a role, how the people before acted played a role, how we react plays a role.
The N.I. example is a good one, a place full of killers, hopefully not all of them are evil.

[Bulld0g]

The response of an educated law student, thank you, I'll say it again, any one of the adults that day could have prevented it.
How those people acted on that day played a role, how the people before acted played a role, how we react plays a role.
The N.I. example is a good one, a place full of killers, hopefully not all of them are evil.

They could have prevented it themselves by stopping it, I don't think for one moment it was obvious to anyone the child was being kidnapped. The witnesses have stated they thought he was one of the lads baby brother. I think you should review your last post and think about it, is Northern Ireland a place full of killers ? I know irish people who have never hurt anyone.

[SouthernComfort]

They could have prevented it themselves by stopping it, I don't think for one moment it was obvious to anyone the child was being kidnapped. The witnesses have stated they thought he was one of the lads baby brother. I think you should review your last post and think about it, is Northern Ireland a place full of killers ? I know irish people who have never hurt anyone.

Surely you know the facts of the case?
As for my second point I stand by it, I didn't say everyone but there are plenty.

[fireblade1]

should have shot the ~~~~ers bigtime!!

fireblade.

[MrFug]

I wasn't calling you a half-wit. I apologise if I came across that way. I was trying get the point across that the notion that anyone is 'born evil' is grossly misguided.

I'm from Northern Ireland. I'm also from a council estate. I've know people who were murdered, and I've known people who committed murder. When I made the comments about council estates and leafy suburbs, I admit I was generalising but there is irrefutable evidence that poverty breeds crime. I've seen it first hand on so many occasions. I'm not saying we're all morally blind because we come from poor backgrounds but there is significant statistical evidence to support the proposition that children from poor backgrounds are more likely to pursue a life of crime, or make no worthwhile contributions to society.

[Bulld0g]

I never took it personal m8 lol Whilst criminals may more likely pursue a life of crime if they come from a poor background it doesn't mean they do.

[MrFug]

I never took it personal m8 lol Whilst criminals may more likely pursue a life of crime if they come from a poor background it doesn't mean they do.

Agreed. I think this is just a sensitive subject. Everyone has strong views. I actually agree that justice wasn't done in the Bulger case. It smacks of injustice when a baby is horribly murdered, and the murderers are free to live their adult lives sheltered at the expense of the state. However we can't go around lynching people. If we did, the country would soon descend into anarchy!

When these boys were convicted, there was overwhelming public revulsion and a general feeling of hatred, and rightly so, towards them. If the public had got their way, the boys would have been publicly executed. Imagine the pictures of that scene today. Two ten year-old children hanging from the gallows whilst a baying mob, faces contorted in hate, cheering as the children drop through the trap-doors and their necks break.

Should we be proud of those hypothetical pictures? Or should we feel ashamed?

[SouthernComfort]

We lead by example. I think many people forget this.

[Bulld0g]

The whole debate is centred around the fact those Two got off lightly, people say they would kill them but i doubt many would given the chance, even though now they're both adults.
However if you were a relative of a child who was murdered like the baby was then maybe you would kill them given the chance, who knows.
As Southerncomfort said, you don't know how you would react in a given situation until it affects you. Saying what you would like to do and doing it is Two different things.

[SouthernComfort]

The whole debate is centred around the fact those Two got off lightly, people say they would kill them but i doubt many would given the chance, even though now they're both adults.
However if you were a relative of a child who was murdered like the baby was then maybe you would kill them given the chance, who knows.
As Southerncomfort said, you don't know how you would react in a given situation until it affects you. Saying what you would like to do and doing it is Two different things.
If I could thank you twice I would, best post this whole thread.

[Lainie]

whether they were born evil or became evil is irrelivant in my opinion. what they did WAS evil and thats a fact plain and simple. they got off extremely lightly an now enjoy life without a care in the world or an ounce of remorse. poor jamies family esp his mum will never get over what they did and if they have a life sentence then so should the perpetrators.

[MrFug]

whether they were born evil or became evil is irrelivant in my opioion. what they did WAS evil and thats a fact plain and simple. they got off extremely lightly an now enjoy life without a care in thew world or an ounce of remorse. poor jamies family esp his mum will never get over what they did and if they have a life sentence then so should the perpetrators.

I agree with you Lainie, but I think people use the word 'evil' to describe actions that they don't understand. I mean, what actually is evil? It's a difficult concept to define. It's not quantifiable or substantial. It's a very human construction that only exists in our subjective interpretation of human behaviour.

I think there is a reason behind every human action. Some cases are easy to explain - A man sleeps with my wife and I kill him in a jealous rage - A padeophile abuses someone close to me and I kill him for vengeance. At the other end of the scale we have the Bulger case: Heinous crimes that we simply can't explain no matter how hard we try, so we call them 'evil', like some mystical, supernatual force compels them. Yet even the most profoundly immoral, depraved acts are the products of some other explainable influences or circumstances. The boys who murdered poor Jamie were badly raised, there's no doubt about that. They were subjected to varying degrees of abuse and were deprived of affection. Could this go someway to explaining the lack of empathy they exhibited? Also, they were impressionable children - undeveloped, irrational, not capable of reason the way you and I are. They may have watched violent movies (I'm not 100% sure if they did), and were seduced by the gratutious violence displayed. Maybe the thought of killing excited them? Were they affected by psychological problems? Sociopathic tendancies? Did one boy exert a commanding influence over the other? Did all these factors lead to the devastating consequences for the Bulger family?

I think to be honest I'm just thinking out loud in this post. Trying to make sense of it all myself. No one is right or wrong on this thread. I guess the point I'm trying to make, in a long-winded fashion, is that everything we do is in a series of sequential actions and reactions.

Sorry for blabbering. :)

[SouthernComfort]

Sounds reasonable and concise.

[xant14]

I agree with you Lainie, but I think people use the word 'evil' to describe actions that they don't understand. I mean, what actually is evil? It's a difficult concept to define. It's not quantifiable or substantial. It's a very human construction that only exists in our subjective interpretation of human behaviour.

. :)

What exactly is evil?
My little one kicked me in the face from the swing in the back garden, immediately apologetic and remorseful.
Them two twats, dropped an iron bar on his head then rammed stolen batteries in his mouth.

One is evil, one isn't.

[janobi]

Ah so it's an observation now ? you observed they were poor souls, the real poor souls are the baby's parents, having to live their lives knowing the full facts of what happened to their baby. The two monsters are not poor souls at all, infact one has shown he's into paedophilia and thats after all the mollycoddling the coont got from day one.

Being from the same place as the Bulgers are you hear more from friends of their family that you know so you don't need the press to tell you what they want in order to sell papers. You have one big failing as far as i can see and that is you really believe THEY are poor souls.

As far as it being egotistical of me to say DK is the best forum around, it is lol I have and still am a member of most of the forums and whilst i still go on them frequently, there is none come even close to this :D

So your only argument is that I called them poor souls? lmfao. I would call any child who had suffered a poor soul.

Also you have obviously been privvy to certain information, that the rest of us have not, being from Liverpool, im sure the rumour mill was working overtime.

And I would question your comment on this forum being the best, it may be your perception/opinion that its the best, to which you are entitled too. But as with anything that is the best, there is always something better around the corner.

I had never heard of that godins law thing either, interesting theory, and I comment Mr Fug, for his well spoken, and well thought out arguments and points.

[Canker_Canison]

Yet even the most profoundly immoral, depraved acts are the products of some other explainable influences or circumstances. The boys who murdered poor Jamie were badly raised, there's no doubt about that. They were subjected to varying degrees of abuse and were deprived of affection. Could this go someway to explaining the lack of empathy they exhibited? Also, they were impressionable children - undeveloped, irrational, not capable of reason the way you and I are.


~~~~ my head hurts after reading everything on this thread.

MrFug has probably came the closest to explaining some of my thoughts & understanding of the how's & why's this happened.

How many of us, as kids, killed insects & bugs? I did. From flies to caterpillers & worms, I tortured them.... Why? Curiosity, not knowing any better or was I evil?
But I knew the difference between a bug & a mammal, I could never knowingly hurt anything bigger than a bug.

These two were underdeveloped in their sense of morality & behaviour. Add to this there constant truancy, stealing & lack of punishment for this. It gave them an almost untouchable feeling, they could do anything.
To me, their twisted reality merely jumped from insects & bugs to something unthinkable to every well adjusted human being. (But well adjusted to us may differ wildly from those in other areas of the world.)
Their actions when taking James reminded me of the type of naughty things done by kids that would get them grounded. They lacked the full understanding of the gravity for the situation & the full repercussions of what they were planning.

Their punishment was far too light. But they spent their most informative years locked up, not developing bonds with children their own age...other than those already locked up for various crimes.

There is no hope of either of these individuals from ever living a normal life. There will always be issues with their behaviour.


Michael Jackson blamed a lack of a normal childhood for his association with young boys.
This is not a defense for any individuals behaviour, only a possible factor behind the psyche that needs to be examined.
Vanables will always be trying to capture the childhood he's missed. But the way in which he will be trying to do this risks too much for him to be let loose in the public.