Help: Ford 2.5L common rail hard start

[Poptest]

Please help me about Ford common rail hard start problem, hot or cold engine. Engine takes about 5 seconds to start. Engine runs well when it starts.

Scan does not show any faults. Battery and cranking rpm are okay. Glow plugs, rail pressure, injector leakage, fuel filter have also been checked.

I hooked up analog voltmeter to #1 injector solenoid and cranked the engine. Meter did not show actuating voltage for a few seconds. Engine started after a few seconds when meter indicated pulse voltage to injector.

I would like to know if injector is immediately pulsed during cranking, and what is the possible reason for delay in pulse to the injector.

Many thanks to all DK.

[Dzltec]

Most common rail vehicles won't activate injectors until a desired rail pressure is reached. genrally its 20-30mpa. That then means it could be air in the system, fuel draining away, bad injectors or pump issues. What sort of vehicle is it?

The only way to diag fords is with the Ids. Nothing else comes close.

Andy

[Albanais]

Hello mate. I would recommend you to check all the battery terminals including the earth points on gearbox body, check if they are clean and well tighten, if those are okay than open the starter and put some grease on it. From experience I know it that happens a lot of this problems to wag group also time to time to psa group. A bad starter will suck all the power of the battery and so the injectors will not be able to open . Best regards mate

[tapiru]

M8 please tell us more details abouth this car mening year of fabrication,engine tipe,power.
I have this problem with Transit 2.4l caused by chain wear and especially by hydraulic chain tensioner.These engines have a very long timing chain and if the tensioner not work well the timing is disturbed until tensioner is armed by oil pressure.
How much km have this car ?

[mhbih]

Did you try to change engine speed sender which is located on camshaft?

[Poptest]

Most common rail vehicles won't activate injectors until a desired rail pressure is reached. genrally its 20-30mpa. That then means it could be air in the system, fuel draining away, bad injectors or pump issues. What sort of vehicle is it?

The only way to diag fords is with the Ids. Nothing else comes close.

Andy

Rail pressure is good 30mpa and rises immediately; no air in the system; we've tested the CR pump and injectors too. Glow system is good. Fuel filter has been replaced. And by the way, engine runs well after it starts.

Vehicle is a 2008 Ford SUV Everest (Thailand), engine is Mazda 3.0L common rail with a Bosch CR system.

[Poptest]

Hello mate. I would recommend you to check all the battery terminals including the earth points on gearbox body, check if they are clean and well tighten, if those are okay than open the starter and put some grease on it. From experience I know it that happens a lot of this problems to wag group also time to time to psa group. A bad starter will suck all the power of the battery and so the injectors will not be able to open . Best regards mate

Hello my dear friend. It's been a long time. As you suggested, I checked positive and negative power connections, saw 13 ohms on the ground, and fixed a bad terminal. But problem remains.

Starter gear is noisy because customer has been having a hard start condition for some time before sending car to us. But cranking rpm is normal. It has to be replaced/repaired but I don't think this is the cause of the problem because I measure 11.4 volts during long crank.

I'm glad to hear from you.....and will post my final fix if ever I succeed.

[Poptest]

M8 please tell us more details abouth this car mening year of fabrication,engine tipe,power.
I have this problem with Transit 2.4l caused by chain wear and especially by hydraulic chain tensioner.These engines have a very long timing chain and if the tensioner not work well the timing is disturbed until tensioner is armed by oil pressure.
How much km have this car ?

Thanks for the tip. I will scope camshaft and crankshaft to see if timing is way off. But I have a problem. The Ford factory manual doesn't show the required cam and crank waveform for their engine.

By the way, car has run approx. 65k kms. only.

[Poptest]

Did you try to change engine speed sender which is located on camshaft?

No, not yet. I will take scope readings of crank and cam sensors.

[Albanais]

Hello my dear friend. It's been a long time. As you suggested, I checked positive and negative power connections, saw 13 ohms on the ground, and fixed a bad terminal. But problem remains.

Starter gear is noisy because customer has been having a hard start condition for some time before sending car to us. But cranking rpm is normal. It has to be replaced/repaired but I don't think this is the cause of the problem because I measure 11.4 volts during long crank.

I'm glad to hear from you.....and will post my final fix if ever I succeed.

Im glad too mate.

11.4 sometimes it is not enough in order to supply the capacitors of the injectors. Last month i have an Volkswagen with this same symptoms. Once we repair the starter the vehicle begun starting like a charm. Just for facility take an other battery and jump start it by jump leads and check if you have improvements. If you see that it starts immediately then either you have poor connectivity either starter. I'm telling you by experience.

Have a nice time mate

[Poptest]

Im glad too mate.

11.4 sometimes it is not enough in order to supply the capacitors of the injectors. Last month i have an Volkswagen with this same symptoms. Once we repair the starter the vehicle begun starting like a charm. Just for facility take an other battery and jump start it by jump leads and check if you have improvements. If you see that it starts immediately then either you have poor connectivity either starter. I'm telling you by experience.

Have a nice time mate

Just tried your advise on jump start with other battery ....... no improvement mate.

I have scoped crank and cam sensors, and see some irregular lines on the crank wave. I don't know if this is the problem.

[tapiru]

Told you man try to see the condition of chain.Know is a pain to do this but listen to me it worth.But for your soul try first time all what you wish and final solution try my way.
Good luck !!!!

[Poptest]

M8 please tell us more details abouth this car mening year of fabrication,engine tipe,power.
I have this problem with Transit 2.4l caused by chain wear and especially by hydraulic chain tensioner.These engines have a very long timing chain and if the tensioner not work well the timing is disturbed until tensioner is armed by oil pressure.
How much km have this car ?

Thank you for very good tip tapiru. I have checked as you recommend. Timing chain and tensioner are okay. I have ordered a crank sensor and arriving soon. I will update DK.

Thanks much

[Albanais]

Also berry in mide that if the vehicle have a lot of miles done aleraedy, an extendeded chaine will bring you problems like incorrect information regarding syncronization. We have had alerady a problem here in dk with mazda i guess, I dont remember anymore the thread but I remember a similar problem. Anyway we have to wait your results.

[tapiru]

I am the most curious of results about canshaft sensor replace.
I would know how he checked the chain to be sure is in good condition.If he just watched is not enough.

[Albanais]

I am the most curious of results about canshaft sensor replace.
I would know how he checked the chain to be sure is in good condition.If he just watched is not enough.

I guess he just watched and not measured it. You can measure it only if you have a brand new one or if he have the poper dattas other wise not posible. Any way we have to wait

[tapiru]

You're right m8 have to wait .
I am 99% this is the problem.I administrate 16 Transit 2.4 and this was the most common problem wen starting hard.Tips about this issue "sell" me a guy who work to dealer and the guy seems know what he is talking about same time is the only one from others 12 mecanics who know something about Ford reparation.

[Poptest]

Did you try to change engine speed sender which is located on camshaft?

mhbih was correct. I replaced the speed sensor on the flywheel, ........not on the camshaft. Engine now starts very easy despite the noisy starter..

Starter will be repaired/replaced because the bendix gear is damaged.

Thanky you all DK who have tried to help me.