Share my VAG diagnostics experience

[ghostridersa]

For all DK members working with VAG diagnostics I would like to share an experience I had on a VW Polo and hope that one day it might be helpfull to some of you.

I had a customer who came into may shop and told me that he had a complete engine rebuild done on his VW Polo with a BLM engine in it. THIS WILL APPLY TO ALL POLO BLM, BBY ENGINES AND MOST GOLFS BUILT AFTER 2002.

The problem my customer had was that after the engine rebuild the vehicle had very bad performance and had a knock in the engine like an ignition knock.

The workshop who had rebuilt his engine had done all they could to get the car to running better but could not get it right. He then took the vehicle to the VW Dealer and was told that the ignition knock he had was a piston touching the cylinder head. So they took off the cylinder head and found nothing wrong so put the cylinder head back. The VW Dealer had the car for 2 months and could not figure out what was wrong with the car and told the customer to tow the car away.

So the customer brought it to me.

Symptoms were as follows:
* The vehicle had very bad power when accelerating and a distinctive ignition knock as if the timing was wrong.
* A vag com diagnostic scan showed no fault codes.

Solution:
We started by checking the valve timing was correct and it was perfect. We checked the new cranckshaft sensor the dealer had fitted and it was perfect.

We removed the gearbox and found that the timing pick-up ring which on these vehicles is part of the crankshaft rear main oil seal had been fitted incorrectly by the workshop who had rebuilt the engine and therefore the ignition timing was incorrect and the vehicle had bad power. we set the pick-up ring in the oil seal to the correct position and re-fitted the engine and the vehicle now runs perfect.

Because the pick-up ring is a mechanical part the Dealer VAS system and Vag Com did not detect any electronic faults the Dealer could not find what the problem was. This just goes to show that sometime the very simple things can baffle even the Dealer.

I have attached some pics of the oil seal with the pick-up ring and the special fitting tool. This is just a small piece of advice but might help one day.

[bonecrusher]

Thanks for the educational post.Hats off to guys like you

[borysgo2]

My friend same shitty crankshaft seal ring with pick up for sensor is fitted to new tdi diesel engines. Had a customer who changed flywheel and rear crankshaft oil seal - after job done - game over on dash and car wouldn't start - advised to drop the gearbox again and refit seal - job done.

[smokey08]

I had a similar problem on a golf with a BCA engine. It was so far out that the engine did not run an it was popping through the inlet fannymould. It did set a camshaft position sensor fault code (P0340)

[teuton]

Same principle on pointer, saveiro, gol, derby etc here in middle/south america. depending on dis system they might throw a code or not.

[Ashraf6119]

For all DK members working with VAG diagnostics I would like to share an experience I had on a VW Polo and hope that one day it might be helpfull to some of you.

I had a customer who came into may shop and told me that he had a complete engine rebuild done on his VW Polo with a BLM engine in it. THIS WILL APPLY TO ALL POLO BLM, BBY ENGINES AND MOST GOLFS BUILT AFTER 2002.

The problem my customer had was that after the engine rebuild the vehicle had very bad performance and had a knock in the engine like an ignition knock.

The workshop who had rebuilt his engine had done all they could to get the car to running better but could not get it right. He then took the vehicle to the VW Dealer and was told that the ignition knock he had was a piston touching the cylinder head. So they took off the cylinder head and found nothing wrong so put the cylinder head back. The VW Dealer had the car for 2 months and could not figure out what was wrong with the car and told the customer to tow the car away.

So the customer brought it to me.

Symptoms were as follows:
* The vehicle had very bad power when accelerating and a distinctive ignition knock as if the timing was wrong.
* A vag com diagnostic scan showed no fault codes.

Solution:
We started by checking the valve timing was correct and it was perfect. We checked the new cranckshaft sensor the dealer had fitted and it was perfect.

We removed the gearbox and found that the timing pick-up ring which on these vehicles is part of the crankshaft rear main oil seal had been fitted incorrectly by the workshop who had rebuilt the engine and therefore the ignition timing was incorrect and the vehicle had bad power. we set the pick-up ring in the oil seal to the correct position and re-fitted the engine and the vehicle now runs perfect.

Because the pick-up ring is a mechanical part the Dealer VAS system and Vag Com did not detect any electronic faults the Dealer could not find what the problem was. This just goes to show that sometime the very simple things can baffle even the Dealer.

I have attached some pics of the oil seal with the pick-up ring and the special fitting tool. This is just a small piece of advice but might help one day.

Hi

Sorry Guys I am NOT starting up here but, :D

To my knowledge if the TDC Pick-up Ring, Sensor what ever is NOT in its potion then it should pick the fault code for Crank Shaft, or Camshaft Sensor not synchronise..........

In a simple way when the Cam Timing jumps out by few tooth........We do get those fault codes.........

And even if the car will start it will also show in live data that timing is way out...........It is very strange if all this things did not show up in live data readings..........And also Dealers could NOT notice this things..........After keeping the vehicle for two months.........:top:

Which Dealers were they........I mean in which Country was this VW Dealer..........


Edited: OK......... just noticed after posting that it was from South Africa.........No wonder mate any thing can happen there.......:top:

[borysgo2]

Hi

Sorry Guys I am NOT starting up here but, :D

To my knowledge if the TDC Pick-up Ring, Sensor what ever is NOT in its potion then it should pick the fault code for Crank Shaft, or Camshaft Sensor not synchronise..........

In a simple way when the Cam Timing jumps out by few tooth........We do get those fault codes.........

And even if the car will start it will also show in live data that timing is way out...........It is very strange if all this things did not show up in live data readings..........And also Dealers could NOT notice this things..........After keeping the vehicle for two months.........:top:

Which Dealers were they........I mean in which Country was this VW Dealer..........


Edited: OK......... just noticed after posting that it was from South Africa.........No wonder mate any thing can happen there.......:top:


Not always you got synchro faults and not always you are able to check timing via diagnostics (not all cars ar 1.9 tdi edc15). Good example are siemens ecus in older vag cars vhere you got nearly nothing to diagnose.
The only way to check timing is scope. Example here

[Ashraf6119]

Not always you got synchro faults and not always you are able to check timing via diagnostics (not all cars ar 1.9 tdi edc15). Good example are siemens ecus in older vag cars vhere you got nearly nothing to diagnose.
The only way to check timing is scope. Example here

So you want to tell me Dealers did not have SCOPE to carry out that test............:questionmark:

[dopsleutel13]

So you want to tell me Dealers did not have SCOPE to carry out that test............
Yes there are stupid dealers !!!

[ghostridersa]

Not always you got synchro faults and not always you are able to check timing via diagnostics (not all cars ar 1.9 tdi edc15). Good example are siemens ecus in older vag cars vhere you got nearly nothing to diagnose.
The only way to check timing is scope. Example here

@ Borysgo2, when the pick-up ring is slightly off its correct position VAS and Vag Com dont pick it up at all. Only when useing a scope did we notice the timing was slightly out thereby causing the problem.

As for the Dealers here in south africa, they dont know their ass from their elbow and they are a bunch of overpaid parts fitters.

The Dealers here dont even fix their own gearboxes. There are 2 Main Dealers within 20km's of my shop and when they get Golf 5 GTI DSG gearboxes to repair they pull them out and send it to us for repair and put their mark up on.

[Ashraf6119]

Yes there are stupid dealers !!!


Hmmmmmmmmm..............:hmmmm::hmmmm::hmmmm::hmmm m2::hmmmm2:

[ghostridersa]

The Dealers here are so slack that they even manage to corrupt brand new clusters.

[Autofix]

So you want to tell me Dealers did not have SCOPE to carry out that test............:questionmark:

I do a lot of work for main dealers. Not one of them knows how to use a scope.

[Ashraf6119]

I do a lot of work for main dealers. Not one of them knows how to use a scope.


VERY SAD FOR THOSE DEALERS........................THEY SHOULD NOT BE CALLED AS A DEALERS ANY MORE................

[ghostridersa]

The dealers here dont even have a scope. The best one I have seen in terms of poor dealer knowledge is Nissan who did a complete engine rebuild on a nissan x-trail and left the oil pick-up off the oil pump, then started the vehicle up and went for lunch without checking the oil pressure and blew the motor. Well done nissan south africa.

[smokey08]

So you want to tell me Dealers did not have SCOPE to carry out that test............:questionmark:

They probably have a scope but whether they know how to use it or not is another story.

All the gear and no idea.

[ghostridersa]

They probably have a scope but whether they know how to use it or not is another story.

All the gear and no idea.

The VW Dealer nearest to me have 11 workshop techs and an average of 65 vehicle services per 8 hour day to get threw so you can image the poor service they are providing, never mind the major work they have. Its all about productivity for them and getting threw the day and the cars out the door.

[VTS_Tibi]

Great post! Thanks! Do you have a picture of this actual seal with the timing ring fitted? I haven't seen one yet :)

[ghostridersa]

Great post! Thanks! Do you have a picture of this actual seal with the timing ring fitted? I haven't seen one yet :)

You can look at the first post in this thread it has the pics.

[VTS_Tibi]

No, I mean real pictures! So I could see where the sensor and where the pickup ring is :) I'm only curious!

[ghostridersa]

No, I mean real pictures! So I could see where the sensor and where the pickup ring is :) I'm only curious!


Sorry but I didn't take pics as it was a simple job. It sits in the rear main oil seal.

[vernon]

thanks for the usefull informaton common problem for mechanics down here....