Advice needed traffic law

[johnboy1974]

Guys today i was approaching a crossroads junction controlled by traffic lights as i approached the lights and about 5 metres from the lights they went from green to amber. I decided to carry on as it was a downhill gradient and i felt to stop would mean an emergency stop. The next thing i see is the flashing blue lights and then into the back of the car. The officers had been sitting to my left waiting on their lights to change and are saying that their lights were showing a solid green when i went through the junction. I am absolutely adament that the lights on my side were amber and explained this to the officer. I asked him if he saw the colour of the lights from my side as i approached the junction and he said he only saw the lights in front of him and that they were at green. I have now been charged with going through a red light although the officer never actually saw me going through a red light. He is just assuming my light must have red becuase his light was green. Anyway i told them in no uncertain terms that i would not be accepting the statutory ticket 60 quid and 3 points on my license, and now its going to go to court. I was wondering if anyone on here has any advice or been through a similar experience. I had never thought about it till now but surely traffic signals can go faulty or out of sync.

[happy_highlander]

Without a witness in your side of the lights your going to struggle word for word against a copper, unless you can prove the timings are out. Shouldn't be to difficult nowadays as all video cameras stamp time and date. Just record both sets of lights at the same time. Problem is them lot are as thick as thieves so even getting evidence admitted will be a struggle. Best bet would be to very one of those free first consultations with a lawyer and find it where you stand

[johnboy1974]

Without a witness in your side of the lights your going to struggle word for word against a copper, unless you can prove the timings are out. Shouldn't be to difficult nowadays as all video cameras stamp time and date. Just record both sets of lights at the same time. Problem is them lot are as thick as thieves so even getting evidence admitted will be a struggle. Best bet would be to very one of those free first consultations with a lawyer and find it where you stand


Mate im not saying the copper is lying maybe his light was showing green but i know 200 per cent my light was amber heading for red. For the coppers light to be green my lights would have been red for at least 2 seconds and thats just didnt happen.

[GastonJ]

Did the lights have a camera on them? If so then you may be in luck, or even a cctv pointing at them? if not it's your word against theirs and you will lose.

[happy_highlander]

Mate im not saying the copper is lying maybe his light was showing green but i know 200 per cent my light was amber heading for red. For the coppers light to be green my lights would have been red for at least 2 seconds and thats just didnt happen.

I didn't say he was lying either (well not openly anyway) and I know exactly what you mean about the light delay but the sequence is set manually not automatically (on portable anyway) I've just recently done an nvq in road closure pmsl to say i'm competent to install temp traffic lights that carry the same penalty for running a red one as the static lights do. All i can say there were a few blokes on that course that I wouldn't ask the time of day never mind let them set up light sequence.....Basically what I'm saying is there has got to be human error on someones part (not yours) either the light sequence is ~~~~ed or the copper is mistaken (lying torag) or he is being pushed to meet statistics which also happens my wifes mate is a copper.

[super jumbe]

If they were two officers in the copper car, you do not have legs to stand on mate.

Do not get me wrong suppose the matter goes to court the judge will always be on cooper side.

I suggest you pay the fine and that?s what I would do.

[DOUGALMCD]

If you gave a statement saying as you approached they went amber they will stipulate that solid amber also means stop. Did you check that the ticket is filled out and dated with right codes.

[Meat-Head]

Yes, under the circumstances, agree, your word against a pig, tough.

in this case (NO OFFENSE) "Your in the wrong" - so pay up and claim it back.

If you go to court, that's ?60 + 3 points, another ?6454564564565 fine, ?15 victim surcharge, and another 3 points because the judge has had to get out of bed.
and NO DK Member discount.

Now, ok the pig has one pair of eyes, there were watching the green light - but M'lud - was it light, can he prove it.

If pig has camera in car, that's good ask if it has.

Meat

[Meat-Head]

DAMM

OFF TOPIC:-

YEARS AND YEARS AGO, guy came up to traffic lights, see the fuzz were chasing a car, same with amber, he went so pig could get car in front, he got took off-line for running red stop light, had he stopped, hindering a pig in his duty?

[Mjolinor]

You could win but you need to work to do it. Probably easier to pay the dosh. If there were two of them then for sure you should pay, if there was only one you need to question his actions in other things around the actual event like why did he take X minutes to follow you and why he wasn't wearing his seat belt, 9if it was solid red on your side why did he not stop the guy in front of you. It's good fun anyway if you defend yourself and if you quote from the relevant law then take it with you to court, they do not have copies.

I have defended myself over a seat belt charge and they actually asked me if I had a printout of the relevant paragraphs where it is written that you do not need to wear a seat belt if the maneuver you are doing involved a reverse.

Go and time the lights and do some calculations about how far you travel in those times at those speeds and prove that theirs would be green before you got across the junction if you go through immediately before the light goes green to amber. Get average speeds and acceleration statistics for your car to prove that at a sensible speed there is not enough overlap on the lights.

It really is just a matter of work on your part and remember that most magistrates are idiots whose only qualification is that they talk a lot.

If you decide to defend then there is a good chance that the police will drop it anyway particularly if you have timed the lights and found them lacking in some way.

[barrowmanandrew]

i had a similer experience at a set of traffic lights in glasgow years ago.
this time though coppers were behind me.

i was stopped at the lights (you will proberly know them,big set at duke street, west muir street, gallowgate), anyways i was sure the lights had turned green and i went through.
next thing i new, flashing blue lights behind me, coppers were adamant the green man had come on, not my green light to go.
i let them know that i wouldn't be accepting a fixed penalty and told them i was 100% sure i had went through a green light...

copper told me that i would have to challenge it and case would go to court.

a few weeks later i got a letter saying they would not be pursuing the case.
i can't remember the exact wording, but the general jist was that they had no evidence...
and there was two coppers in the car, so their word against mine couldn't have been good enough...

[johnboy1974]

If you gave a statement saying as you approached they went amber they will stipulate that solid amber also means stop. Did you check that the ticket is filled out and dated with right codes.


Mate the law states that amber means stop unless you have already passed the stop line or it is unsafe to stop. The light went amber just a few meters from me as i approached them which would have meant an emergency stop in which i believe i could have lost control of the car as it was a steep downhill gradient.
Im sure many of you have been at that 50/50 decision at traffic lights.

[johnboy1974]

i had a similer experience at a set of traffic lights in glasgow years ago.
this time though coppers were behind me.

i was stopped at the lights (you will proberly know them,big set at duke street, west muir street, gallowgate), anyways i was sure the lights had turned green and i went through.
next thing i new, flashing blue lights behind me, coppers were adamant the green man had come on, not my green light to go.
i let them know that i wouldn't be accepting a fixed penalty and told them i was 100% sure i had went through a green light...

copper told me that i would have to challenge it and case would go to court.

a few weeks later i got a letter saying they would not be pursuing the case.
i can't remember the exact wording, but the general jist was that they had no evidence...
and there was two coppers in the car, so their word against mine couldn't have been good enough...


Andrew thats what happened to one of my taxi driver pals 9 years ago after he said see you in court officer. My sister reckons the police have no proof that their light was green and no proof that my light was red. After all both coppers will back each other. I just hope the p/f sees it my way. Either way im absolutely fizzing.

[bobwill]

Last week I was just about to go over a pelican crossing when lights changed from green to a quick amber to red I know this crossing well and l stopped quick then I heard a bang ,got out and a car was jammed in my towbar done no damage to my truck but his car was a writeoff

[patkins]

Johnboy, can you say if cop car had flashing blue lights just for you or were the lights flashing blue for another reason?
They may have been responding to a crime and jumped the lights knowing they were about to turn green.

[Liteace]

If your a taxi driver get yourself a dash cam, it will record everything, here's a little bit of a recording from a DIY dashcam Ive made for me works van:

drive 6mm 0001 - YouTube

it's a bit grainy and the video is a bit jumpy but thats down to the condition of the road surface (as you can see its shite) but does the job, you stop it and play it back there and then if plod accuse you of something you haven't done

[nicole123]

seen this :The basic position is that when a traffic light is showing amber, it is an offence to drive through it unless it is unsafe to do so. For example, you are so close to the stop line that you can't stop, or for some reason trying to stop suddenly could cause danger to other road users.

[Shady]

you're all driving on the wrong side of the street!!!

[nicole123]

Amber gamblers| Driving through amber lights | The law on amber lights (http://www.hilldickinson.com/downloads/client_services/knowledge_and_publications/insurance/19_august_2011.aspx)

[smokey08]

I think the CPS would throw the case out before it even goes to court as the coppers could not see your light on red.