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z786
29th April, 2012, 11:42 PM
why the hell does there have to be a few that charge pennies for this job?

i charge 400 for dpf removal and people happily pay
theres some people charging 200 for dpf removal and remap

WTF

if people happily pay me 400, why charge 200???

come on guys, lets not kill this trade too

wsc
29th April, 2012, 11:57 PM
i am not in your area mate , but i totally agree with you

Dakta
30th April, 2012, 12:21 AM
Have to agree, though I don't think someone doing it in their spare time should be charging the same as someone who says, gets a dyno printout with it too.

But I do agree with your core point.

z786
30th April, 2012, 12:30 AM
its not bout the dyno mate its about people after just a "drink"

new dpf costs 1500
customer will very happily pay 400-500 to eliminate the problem

yet people will still do it for 200, whats the fcukin need?

ominimicu
30th April, 2012, 12:31 AM
beacuse they get ECusafe on the forum for free. that is why..and they think " Hey! it cost me nothing, i got nothing to recover, so it s all winning"
thank God ECusafe fails.

But i agree minimum 200eur.

wiseman
30th April, 2012, 12:38 AM
Z is 110% correct, this has already happened to mileage

z786
30th April, 2012, 12:43 AM
its not even the ecusafe guys

its the kessv2 guys who paid 1000 for it with 5 free files

then they pay 80 per file and get excited when they make 100 on top

spawns3
30th April, 2012, 01:16 AM
here in Portugal is much worse,remove the dpf with ecusafe and remmap the car for 150 ? .
yesterday I had a client to remove the fap. In which they had already removed with ecusafe.and remmap.
But thankfully not work correctly. but the customer has paid ? 100 for everything.
He ended up paying only the dpf service and go with the original remmap.Because i charge 300? for the DPF , and 250 for a remmap.

Dakta
30th April, 2012, 01:26 AM
its not bout the dyno mate its about people after just a "drink"

new dpf costs 1500
customer will very happily pay 400-500 to eliminate the problem

yet people will still do it for 200, whats the fcukin need?

I don't disagree with you at all matey, it's a difficult one really.

If you with-hold the info, people appreciate the value of info but no-one learns. If you give the info, you get a happy community but the whole things devalued.

If you want to see this problem on a grander scale, look at the UK economy lol.

Nothing wrong with being competitive, but we should protect ourselves. (without going to cartel type behaviour of course).

Stanton
30th April, 2012, 07:42 AM
Its why I now spend most of my time doing contract work for OEM's doing calibration work.
Sadly most potential customers think that "remap" Is a generic term or piece of work and as such can't understand why my chassis dyno developed mod would be ?350-?650 when they can get "a remap " for ?150 by some kid in Asda carpark.

drakov
30th April, 2012, 07:45 AM
Just tell them the price is ?400, but if they have been or are going elsewhere first the price is ?600+ to fix there problems first then do the job properly....We do the same for diagnostics when they go elsewhere to someone with a shitty obd scanner who has told them they will do diagnose there car for beer money

filecloud
30th April, 2012, 10:04 AM
Hello
I agree 100%. This does not only affect UK market but all other countries as well. Germany and Austria is warzone also.
What i suggest: Try to find out WHO you are helping. If it is a real privat person working on his own car? Give him hints to understand what he is doing, send him to a tuner who can help him or, the least good solution, sell him a file.
If it is a private person doing files for others for quick money? Do not help him! These are the people that destroy the market.
If it is another company? Find out who he is, then decide to tell him who you are (or not) and get in contact with him. He may be a potential re-seller, a person to exchange knowledge on a fair basis, or a tough competitor. Then stay fair and friendly and tell him that you cannot help because of business reasons.
If it is an unfriendly person saying "Can someone tune my car"?
Grab the stock file he posts for your collection and stay quiet.
Have a nice day,
filecloud

del635
30th April, 2012, 10:31 AM
Its 200 here from the 'big' companies with dynos etc some places its 150, I've read their work out of a few cars and its duration % bs and obviously done with race2000 or ecm so I dont worry about price more the people with stories of bad work who put others off, equipment means ~~~~ all for quality. I do very little tuning except for friends now because I do not want to sell good work (imo) cheap a few years ago I would have advertised. We work with a bigger company and charge 400 for dpf also but its hard to get customers when gumtree is full of 150 quid ads.
Never sell files over the net esp with limiters etc adjusted properly and injectors still calibrated.

gezame
30th April, 2012, 04:38 PM
Hi
In people who sell chiptuning, dpf-off, etc., to ridiculous prices (50-100-150 euros), the biggest problem I see is that it is unfair for people coming from other sectors.
normally here in Spain, people who have a steady job and has plenty of free time, state officials (police, teachers, municipalities, etc), people who have a fixed salary every month, and they see this as a way to earn money extras such as addition, clones and software cost little or are free, as it gives them 50-100-150 euro charge for any work.
These people, really do not need money to live, along with not paying taxes, etc, etc.
Any money is good, it's all free.
Br.

pinch
30th April, 2012, 06:42 PM
I only do this for a hobby and I never charge anyone.
But, I will only help my friends that will give me some help back when I need it !
Friends with money I tell to go to real company and get warranty, cause they can afford it(friends that is).
If I someday would do this for others, I would never dump prices, cause they will then never go up, I know this from my other buisness that I run, idiots dumping prices when the market goes down, but will never get them up when market turns .

jovime
30th April, 2012, 10:55 PM
Hi
In people who sell chiptuning, dpf-off, etc., to ridiculous prices (50-100-150 euros), the biggest problem I see is that it is unfair for people coming from other sectors.
normally here in Spain, people who have a steady job and has plenty of free time, state officials (police, teachers, municipalities, etc), people who have a fixed salary every month, and they see this as a way to earn money extras such as addition, clones and software cost little or are free, as it gives them 50-100-150 euro charge for any work.
These people, really do not need money to live, along with not paying taxes, etc, etc.
Any money is good, it's all free.
Br.

100% agree Gezame. But at the end, time will put them in it's place.

pintu
2nd May, 2012, 03:06 PM
hi i am from india. same is here

fluorescent
6th May, 2012, 12:34 AM
Hi
In people who sell chiptuning, dpf-off, etc., to ridiculous prices (50-100-150 euros), the biggest problem I see is that it is unfair for people coming from other sectors.
normally here in Spain, people who have a steady job and has plenty of free time, state officials (police, teachers, municipalities, etc), people who have a fixed salary every month, and they see this as a way to earn money extras such as addition, clones and software cost little or are free, as it gives them 50-100-150 euro charge for any work.
These people, really do not need money to live, along with not paying taxes, etc, etc.
Any money is good, it's all free.
Br.


Im sure you are not from Spain, mabe Maroc?

fluorescent
6th May, 2012, 12:41 AM
This life is a jungle, we talk here like we are in the same area, if somebody want to work for 250 let to do it, and if they are make it with chinese clone they are very smart, this is the buisness.The real problem is the people who want the best price posible.

Joe019
6th May, 2012, 10:00 AM
Yes, the big problem is all full software and hardware clone that appear in the market. A normal boy without knowledge can enter in a chiptuning forum and see what best clone for buy, then a little money goes to china and come back for the really chiptuners like a loss money. We see all days that lot of newbie people wants introduce in chiptuning freely. These auctions bring lot of problem for all professional chiptuners that they spend really big money in HW and SW. Im not telling that all boy that they have all sw & hw clone do a bad chiptuning files, but they dont play in the same level. They dont need pay anual subcriptions, updates...

Is my view of point. This goes to worst and we dont know if chiptuning market, dpf removal, inmo removal and other automovive electronic works, will be rental in future for all they buy original products.

bearbruno1
6th May, 2012, 11:55 AM
Yes, the big problem is all full software and hardware clone that appear in the market. A normal boy without knowledge can enter in a chiptuning forum and see what best clone for buy, then a little money goes to china and come back for the really chiptuners like a loss money. We see all days that lot of newbie people wants introduce in chiptuning freely. These auctions bring lot of problem for all professional chiptuners that they spend really big money in HW and SW. Im not telling that all boy that they have all sw & hw clone do a bad chiptuning files, but they dont play in the same level. They dont need pay anual subcriptions, updates...

Is my view of point. This goes to worst and we dont know if chiptuning market, dpf removal, inmo removal and other automovive electronic works, will be rental in future for all they buy original products.


I say the pseudo private "chiptuner", we must find out if it works in your area, and then report this to police authorities for tax evasion, at least maybe the police will make war against them, in my shop ... I personally do not removal fap / dpf, would be too stupid to do this, example: if I remove my client to the fap, or even the egr, I work after I get??, if I settle for ? 150, ? 200, or to 400 ?, but after that I will be the future of my work? my client will no longer be the dpf / fap!, even egr valve,

to change a egr valve fiat mjt, about 2.50 hours labor ? 80, + new egr, about 150 ?, less the cost of spare money = about 110 ?, I think this be a good price gain, forever, (at least until I have my client with me, and not just once, but as long as his car will have life. hello all.:hello:

gezame
6th May, 2012, 11:52 PM
Im sure you are not from Spain, mabe Maroc?

Hi
Sorry, i do not Maroc.
I would like to know how it came to that conclusion .........
Br.

delio78
7th May, 2012, 12:42 AM
why the hell does there have to be a few that charge pennies for this job?

i charge 400 for dpf removal and people happily pay
theres some people charging 200 for dpf removal and remap

WTF

if people happily pay me 400, why charge 200???

come on guys, lets not kill this trade too

We in Bulgaria have the same problem
I do not understand what these people seek
destroy business

tuningschool
7th May, 2012, 01:47 PM
100% agree Gezame. But at the end, time will put them in it's place.


yes....
but
OURS END is nearest then theirs..... if we can't eat. :dong:

bobolin4o
8th May, 2012, 06:16 AM
yes....
but
OURS END is nearest then theirs..... if we can't eat. :dong:

Absolutely true!

madmanc
8th May, 2012, 08:53 PM
who decided that your price of 400 was correct and others 200 was incorrect? also how do you know these 200 people arnt releasing info rather than taking? it is there perogotive to set there price not yours, maybe they are ok eating beans and driving a 96 corsa its enough for them. and no i dont charge 200 i dont even do this work. it happens to every trade in the car industry its not unique to you.

Rob1234
8th May, 2012, 09:20 PM
why the hell does there have to be a few that charge pennies for this job?

i charge 400 for dpf removal and people happily pay
theres some people charging 200 for dpf removal and remap

WTF

if people happily pay me 400, why charge 200???

come on guys, lets not kill this trade too


You will find their strategies are lower the price so you and other doing good job go bust and close their shops then you will find these cowboys raising the price even higher than 400 and still cowboys Job :lollypop:

Happy customer always happy even if they been screwed to the Pennies :sheep::five::sheep:

Rob1234
8th May, 2012, 10:02 PM
who decided that your price of 400 was correct and others 200 was incorrect? also how do you know these 200 people arnt releasing info rather than taking? it is there perogotive to set there price not yours, maybe they are ok eating beans and driving a 96 corsa its enough for them. and no i dont charge 200 i dont even do this work. it happens to every trade in the car industry its not unique to you.


So what you call a quality work? If you do a 100% job without shortcut or mistake and other charge half your charge with low quality and screwing up tricks and come back tomorrow for more Bull*hit sir. You cannot charge less because you know people going to fish for low prices and force other to a cowboy Job like yours? Do you have work force and pay rent, VAT, TAX..etc and the list endless :puke:
So what happen if you work in office you been paid less than your co-worker who less knowledge and experience than you? Sure the world will go nuts and discrimination and equality will kick in here!!!

:viking::hello::viking:

z786
8th May, 2012, 10:03 PM
who decided that your price of 400 was correct and others 200 was incorrect? also how do you know these 200 people arnt releasing info rather than taking? it is there perogotive to set there price not yours, maybe they are ok eating beans and driving a 96 corsa its enough for them. and no i dont charge 200 i dont even do this work. it happens to every trade in the car industry its not unique to you.

beans are very expensive mate. as for the prices, any person with half a brain shud knw wat the job is worth

if u dnt do this work then ur here in this section tryin to learn, if so next u will buy 2 chinky clones use ecusafe and charge 150, hope u enjoy ur beans lol

spawns3
8th May, 2012, 10:11 PM
beans are very expensive mate. as for the prices, any person with half a brain shud knw wat the job is worth

if u dnt do this work then ur here in this section tryin to learn, if so next u will buy 2 chinky clones use ecusafe and charge 150, hope u enjoy ur beans lol


Mate let them buy these cheap clones, and use ecusafe.
More work we will have to resolve the problem, so we can charge even more, we charge 400 ***8364;for dpf and 200 ***8364; just for the custumer trying to go cheap! And if we stop given solutions to newbies is even more complicated for them to do the work. If they want help, we teach how to do. And for good solution have to pay like us.Because if u find some solution u go to exchange for another , but this guys only want for free !

spawns3
8th May, 2012, 10:35 PM
And when customers learn that cheap way only bring them troubles and less money in pocket. They'll start to want good solutions and only pay to view results. because I sometimes lose a whole day with a car to test the solution to 100%.And the guy that take only 150just dump the file and can not do anything else!A few days comes another costumer with DPF off by ecusafe , but the car have problems on trhottle and can check the dtc's. So i charge for a new dpf solution , for a trhottle body and for do again the remmap . So Let they do estupid things

gadroulll
8th May, 2012, 10:53 PM
here is a example how bad is going our job.
in 2011 they make me to charge for a immo off of the iaw59f about 100e . in the january the make me to charge for it 80e . in the april of 2012 i learned that i am expensive because in other cities the charge only 30 e.


the result is to stop making iaw59f .

can someone give a solution to it?

smokey08
8th May, 2012, 11:01 PM
I found a really good pdf on how not to tune and thought I would have a look at the authors site. I read through his site (http://www.hdi-tuning.co.uk/remapping/diesel-tuning-services.html) and saw what he charges to remove DPF :eek: ?20 :eek:.

ecutuners
8th May, 2012, 11:21 PM
I found a really good pdf on how not to tune and thought I would have a look at the authors site. I read through his site (http://www.hdi-tuning.co.uk/remapping/diesel-tuning-services.html) and saw what he charges to remove DPF :eek: ?20 :eek:.

Cant see that working well :D

z786
8th May, 2012, 11:27 PM
this guy defo love his beans

DPF-Removal


?20

Live Diagnsotics with Peugeot Planet or Lexia

?20

Launch Control

?30

EGR Removal through the ECU
?20

Intake port removal through the ECU
?20

wtf is he on, crack?

spawns3
8th May, 2012, 11:37 PM
Thankfully, that ecusafe does not work good on HDI : )

drakov
8th May, 2012, 11:39 PM
Our trade is a mess and it's all our own fault..... if people want to charge buttons for shit jobs let them, just keep telling your customers you will charge even more to fix it when it comes to them (and I don't mean the ones who call to say the guy down the road does it for ** price) tell the customers who did choose you, because they will tell there friends and word will spread.

Nobody can help economies remappers who did remapping now do diagnostics, same with mileage guys who now do remapping, locksmiths now do diagnostics, diagnostics now do keys... we all evolve into something that pays the bills, technology has changed costs for clones is cheaper, outlays are less, therefore costs will drop, that's just nature, what doesn't change is experience/knowledge and that's the difference between a cheap shit job and an expensive good job (yes some will do a good job cheap) but those will be rare.

madmanc
9th May, 2012, 05:54 PM
So what you call a quality work? If you do a 100% job without shortcut or mistake and other charge half your charge with low quality and screwing up tricks and come back tomorrow for more Bull*hit sir. You cannot charge less because you know people going to fish for low prices and force other to a cowboy Job like yours? Do you have work force and pay rent, VAT, TAX..etc and the list endless :puke:
So what happen if you work in office you been paid less than your co-worker who less knowledge and experience than you? Sure the world will go nuts and discrimination and equality will kick in here!!!

:viking::hello::viking:

i think you have replied to the wrong thread my friend i never mentioned quality, and why must the 200 be a cowboy job? because its only 200? so beacause you have a workforce rent vat tax .etc every one must charge the same as you ? its not how the world works friend , if your colleague has less knowledge and more ??? you move on or live with it(even though this is single employer controlling a workforce and has no relivance to this thread).

madmanc
9th May, 2012, 06:06 PM
beans are very expensive mate. as for the prices, any person with half a brain shud knw wat the job is worth

if u dnt do this work then ur here in this section tryin to learn, if so next u will buy 2 chinky clones use ecusafe and charge 150, hope u enjoy ur beans lol


worth and what you get are 2 worlds mate , im here reading about tuning nothing else i enjoy reading , as for 150 lol id rather keep doing what i do thanks and triple at least that money, i think your all missing the point its easy because people do not need some of your guys knowledge, they simply buy a machine for 1000 pound and 75 a file then charge 150, so what makes that wrong?? they are making money simple the people making this possible by there equipment are the real harmers to your trade , but at the end of the day they are doing same as all and making a living , it happens in every trade and yes its sickening but you just have to deal with it.

Stanton
9th May, 2012, 06:17 PM
The sickening part is when ?150 "tuning", where data-logging isnt even carried out, so we dont really know what affect has been made; gets passed off as a properly developed calibration.
Or files are sold for ?50, again, without any feedback, just requested fuel and boost raised, and limiters raised. That isnt tuning.

planktom
9th May, 2012, 08:03 PM
And when customers learn that cheap way only bring them troubles and less money in pocket. They'll start to want good solutions and only pay to view results....


Our trade is a mess and it's all our own fault..... if people want to charge buttons for shit jobs let them, just keep telling your customers you will charge even more to fix it when it comes to them (and I don't mean the ones who call to say the guy down the road does it for ** price) tell the customers who did choose you, because they will tell there friends and word will spread..
yeah...thats exactly what i try do learn my customers !
as i?m just working as an service agent at a vw garage i?m sometimes gettng asked for serious tuning....so i recommend always companys with good reputation...ok,they mostly charge at least double the price than companys in "the bay" or even such whos placed their advertising here in the board...BUT ! i never had a big problem with these cars we did....even when theres a problem these companies could (and do it!) help on the phone by teaching how to read the right measuring blocks and telling whats the fault or,i also had one time,just sending a new ecu by express with adapted programming to get the problems solved....and,up to now, i never had to pay extra .only once when an animal had shortened some cables and smoked up an ecu i had to pay
an amount of pennys to get the original files back to the ecu
for getting a new factory exchanged one an later getting the tuningfiles back to the new ...
and all i can say is that my customers are all happy with their cars and even the ones with more than 300 000 km on their odo had never any problems which is also due to the older owners i have :ciao: i?ve got two special customers with such cars one has more than 450000km on his golf III tdi done by oettinger from new now hes mostly driving his golf IV R32 with also done about 150000km the other one had a fully equipped golf IV with 1,9 PD also done 200000km tuned from new with a box and now got a golf R also tuned from new with box...never any problems with these cars but also these boxes where not cheap but are T?V approved etc.
as i?ve learned mechanik in the 80s i?m hating electrics and specially electronics...so i do only my own car ,but here i?ve got a lot of special features added as i find it interesting repairing bined parts an applying them to my car...so i repaired a pneumatic central locking module from an audi and got it to work with an polo 07 remote (ok...changed the pcb inside the key) added newer keys from an 99 polo with immobox (still some work to do with coding the box for diesel)
repaired an old navi mfd with tmc + dsp,got 165mm speakers to original lokking doorboards and so on..all sort of crazy but i just hang on my now 26 year old passat (ok..its more an audi 200 turbo just looking as an old passat...)
for me,as i?m getting older its just some kind of brainstorming
for not getting stupid....but as i?m a totally noob in electronics i found this board where people are sharing their
knowledge so i?ve learned here more in electronics by just reading threads than in at least the last 25 years just doing my job formerly as mechanic and now more in caring for customers....who are almost satisfied with me

thanks for just letting me be here :ciao:

ninja123
10th May, 2012, 06:31 PM
this guy defo love his beans

DPF-Removal


?20

Live Diagnsotics with Peugeot Planet or Lexia

?20

Launch Control

?30

EGR Removal through the ECU
?20

Intake port removal through the ECU
?20

wtf is he on, crack?


If he can afford crack, Ill buy a house buy him!!!!

ninja

Morette
11th May, 2012, 02:32 PM
There are always cheap tuners, they buy tools for a few thousand, sell remaps at ?150 for a year, then give up because they have no money.
The next person will then try, and the next.

There will always be people very cheap. EDC17 and tuning protection is a good thing as many of these children can't use a screwdriver and are scared of electronics.

rappttor
12th May, 2012, 07:03 PM
Keep in mind that just to buy some cheap tools on ebay and read some fault codes without a proper logging, or the same thing in flashing the car with some shitty files and all that just for 50e cannot last long. Sooner or later they will brick an ecu or a dashboard maybe and to repair it will cost a lot more that they earn in months at this rates, so let them go under the market and tis is a sure way to disapear. The first problem they encounter will simply kill them finnacial. If you know you are doing a good job ask the fair price....and all wil be ok. Dont panic

mbtuning
12th May, 2012, 07:54 PM
Well we all did stupid things in the beginnings, that's the way to learn. :D

rappttor
15th May, 2012, 10:31 AM
yeah....you should know :D and me also :D

ali535d
21st November, 2012, 03:07 AM
i think all tunners should not support clone tools

my mate buys dpf files from a tunner on here
the tunner told him which and where to buy the clone tool from

tinaca
21st November, 2012, 11:40 AM
I agree with the values ***8203;***8203;at 100%
Life do not do it because I love these things
when I stop the gusto value not to kill the deal

lulu2003
21st November, 2012, 12:44 PM
some general thoughts:

prices are built from a market. no need to explain.

why on earth should a simple flash job be worth more than 50 EUR?
you cannot compare it with the price of a new DPF, thats bollocks.

how much do you charge for removing a speed limiter? depending on the limit or on the car? and how much for +300/min rev limiter? do you get more if you make it +400/min?

If you could sell DPF-off for 400 for some years, be happy it was even possible for a 10 Minute Job that wasn't individually done by 90% of the "tuners".

you can only demand 400 EUR for such a simple change, if there is some intellectual property within the solution you own. But it isn't anymore and it wasn't in most cases.

If you are a good tuner who develops his tunes and services by himself and not a "slave-sheep" or helper-tool user, you have no problem to get customers still paying 400 or more because you can do the latest cars or some very individual mods.
and a satisfied customer that comes back is much more worthy that some single 400 shots.

same with trying to get big money for a winols copy and wondering that every buyer trys to resell and price goes down to zero. but guys that sell black copies complain about that!! that's ridiculous. EVC can complain, but they still earn enough because they have very much intellectual property to satisfy their true customers and make them come back.

thats called market and deals with homo oeconomicus :)

how Things go and prices are very fair at the end for all.

djorgensen
21st November, 2012, 08:07 PM
I have someone up the road offering DPF removal for ?100

I cannot compete

But I might do it for ?50 to finish him off

Diesellee
21st November, 2012, 08:38 PM
There is undoubtedly some good tuners out their who understand what they are doing and why. These tuners can make manual dpf files and customise the way the vehicle runs without Volta ecusafe etc. Hat off to them it is a complex topic. Chip tuning was the same, Modifying the torque limiter map, svbl, desired boost map, smoke map etc etc. Basic mapping isn't rocket science. The problem is that the "cowboy tuners" see the opposition making a healthy living from it and jump on the bandwagon with little investment and knowledge adding 20% sometimes even at idle??? and give the scene a bad reputation. I wonder how many so called tuners would understand what blanking off the egr valve does or Removing the fap filter (we all do it myself included) but do the "cowboy tuners" know the purpose of a fap filter. The usual answers are always generic "it's only their to reduce exhaust emissions".yes but why? what about the particulates emitted per km to comply with euro leglislation. They just don't know and you often find they have slaves or clones and use ecusafe volta etc and nor do they have a clue what is in the flash file their writing. The customers don't understand so it's a big gateway for cowboy tuning bullshit and baffling brains. How many of them know what AFR diesel burns cleanest at or where to customise this within the map injecting more mg what about soi?? They don't know they don't care the making ???.....ask yourself no smoke without poke! How many times have you heard that.... IMHO that is total bullshit if the maps are calculated correctly with the correct AFR they shouldnt be any excessive smoke. The problem that arises is probably the same in a few trades the customer doesn't understand so how can they make a decision between cowboy ?150 and pro ?400+ how do they know the difference. They see the ??? saving for what they think is the same job.... it's the same with general repairs on vehicles most trained techs and reputable independants know of at least 1 or more backyard jocky for ?10 ?15 an hour.

Before anyone rips into me, I don't claim to be tuner but I do work for a bosch autocrew approved garage and we do charge ?350+ for a dpf removal we do a good job with tried and tested software. if some backyard jockeys wants to take a dpf off an a3 or Leon for ?150 all inc with some pc software and a galletto 1260 be my guest but I know my work will be more of a professional job hardware and the software without riving and chewing up the sensor wiring. When it's regening every day I'll happily tell them to go back to their cowboy tuner and get him to sort it when he can't because he doesnt have a clue about the flash file he has writtern get him too return the car to standard. Let someone competent do the job properly!!

Technically we are taking euro 4 and 5 cars and making them not comply to euro 4 and 5 legislation to fix cheaply so technically it is fraud as your paying euro 4 or 5 road tax. if it was regulated in this way the cowboys would still be doing it for back pocket cash and the pros would loose out. Catch 22

Rant over :-)
Lee

Larue
22nd November, 2012, 10:16 PM
Agree with Mr Diesellee.
If we are talking specifically about DPF removing then i prefer to do regeneration or change them to new one. I'm taking them off only in very rare and specific cases and charge is 350+ depending on model.
First reason to leave them on customers cars is mentioned in post above - rules and regulations.
There is one more thing what i can say which i didn't see in this thread. It's all about money and by leaving DPF on customer's car you can make more money than by taking it off. Even if you charge 500 for taking it off.
1. Systems with additive fluid needs topping up anyway;
2. Customer will be getting problems with DPF sooner or later;
3. On DPF change you can make 200-300 quid easy or even more.
Counting all together by taking off DPF you are loosing more money than you can earn by repairing car. And finally you can sleep well knowing that there will be no problems with what you have done rather than thinking when car will be back with problems or bothering about reading/writing and so on.
There is something to think about.
P.S. I'm not professional chiptuner. I'm working on electrics/electronics diagnostics at Bosch dealership.

Best Regards
Larue

Dakta
23rd November, 2012, 12:45 AM
I have someone up the road offering DPF removal for ?100

I cannot compete

But I might do it for ?50 to finish him off

This made me laugh, but in a serious way.

Stanton
23rd November, 2012, 08:44 PM
If it costs say 750 to REPLACE a DPF, and you are able to offer a removal solution for 500, then why isn't this fair? Regardless if it takes you takes 10seconds, 10hours or 10days...you are saving them 250.

This is what makes it a commercially viable model....selling a service based on how long it takes you will never work.

lulu2003
24th November, 2012, 12:21 PM
in many coutries it's very illegal to remove the DPF due to exhaust related taxes.
so DPF off is always a bad workaround, no solution.
And IMHO it is not fair to relate the price of that workaround with the true replacement solution.

example:
what do you do if you have a nail in your tire?
you need help from your tire dealer. he offers you 2 options: new tire for 300 or repair the hole with a rubber tee. would you think it's fair when he will charge 200+ for that simple repair???? never ever.
he could try it if he is the only one who offers it in your city, but that will not work for so long.

guys, be realistic. you can drop the price because there is no real costs for you. and even 50 bucks is a nice money per hour.

Stanton
24th November, 2012, 02:00 PM
guys, be realistic. you can drop the price because there is no real costs for you. and even 50 bucks is a nice money per hour.

With this ethos Im guessing you don't or have never ran your own business...with premises/staff/insurance etc etc over heads.

Its also this very attitude that's has destroyed the whole OEM remapping business: from all the 50-150 "tuners" who see selling non-dyno % tunes as a way to subsidise he's weekly wage as a carpet salesman or IT consultant, the general public now believe that this is the STANDARD price for ANY "remap" . So when you spend hours on the dyno you pay 30k for, they don't appreciate the difference in quality OR price. They think why pay 350 when Jim from the pubs brothers best mate can do it for 50 on eed night.

Its annoying but hey that's human nature too often- go with the cheapest option.

Im just glad I got out of it while I could and can concentrate on higher level work, in proper facilities, for proper money :)

Stanton
24th November, 2012, 02:05 PM
As for your tyres analogy...if there are only 3 people in a 100miles radius who can fix your tyres, and you are all clued up, you can charge what you like ;)

This isn't greed, this is business.

lulu2003
24th November, 2012, 02:48 PM
all true but do you see the tire dealers complaing that they can sale their repairs for only 30??

but it's true that they complain about all the customers buying tires in the internet and will visit them only to mount. evil transparcy in prices!! ;)

So be smart and offer you customers a good feeling or additional services they won't find at tire24.com! ;)

Stanton
24th November, 2012, 03:51 PM
Or find a contract as an OEM calibration engineer for ?35per hour 45hrs per week. No premises, no staff, best of all no public ;)

Everyones happy :)

J_amb_o
24th November, 2012, 10:44 PM
Must be nice to be able to calibrate having all the functions and workings known to you :)

Have you folded your own business?

Stanton
24th November, 2012, 11:01 PM
Hi mate..how's things with you?

The tuning stuff yes...about a year ago. Still technically self employed as contract based.

J_amb_o
25th November, 2012, 01:05 AM
Things are good :)

I am kind of going the opposite. Work as a consultant in the Oil & Gas Industry for large Instrumentation firm. Love the job, visit cool places and do cool things. But calibration is my passion - and I'm doing quite well out of it. I'd love some proper OEM work though :)

maxcombor
25th November, 2012, 01:36 AM
Like i say before ,---This is not begging ...but .People some of as are Beginners ,some of as do not have enough money to buy original tools or good clones (i`m bet nobody will never risk to buy worst china crap and desperately try to make it work) .Some of as live in very small city ,like me with small number of customers .My family live only from my Job, and believe me every job i have heart attack because i do`not have money for mistake and work with china "upgraded" tools.Haw is difficult to buy china or any other devices from here without paypal visa etc.is another story. Even in that condition l NEVER try to make lower prices to survive ,and kill someone JOB

Better One Heart attack for a good money, than 200 for a 5euro.

poxxxy
15th December, 2012, 03:14 PM
Loved the read of this thread, but I have nothing more to comment so i'll leave it at that lol.

datapage
15th December, 2012, 04:24 PM
NOT TRUST YOUR COMPETITOR.
HE FALSE.
SPEAK YOUR PRICE IS EQUAL.
THIS IS LIE.
HE HAS SMALL PRICE.
STEAL YOUR CUSTOMER.
:deal:

jnoroeste
15th December, 2012, 05:01 PM
Im sure you are not from Spain, mabe Maroc?

For sure he is in Spain, what do you didnt understand?

hollow
12th January, 2013, 12:10 AM
what about real tuning companies (i know of one ) that has invested ?1000's into 4wd dynos etc ,but still buys maps in @?75 each then sells them on (remaps cars) for ?375 inc vat .
this person has made alot of money and is still conning people as they know no better.
who is this uk person selling map files for ?75 tp alot of uk tuning companies even sends file by email over mobile smart phone .

this company can afford to look good and buy dyno's etc ,but still doesnt know anything about tuning files. have a nice big house etc at the expense of the public ,surely real tuning companies can involve trading standards ,stating cowboys are selling substandard goods

Stanton
12th January, 2013, 11:35 AM
But in all fairness....if they are using the dyno to prove parameters such as AFR, knock, power, etc are all real and safe, then what is the problem?

steelcityuk
13th January, 2013, 12:43 PM
Interesting thread. I own several clone tools and bought them purely to work on my own cars, there's no way I would mess around with other people's cars, far too risky. I work in IT and frequently get asked for help because some people can't afford trade prices whereas others are worried about getting ripped off, I only do jobs for friends or relatives, others I'll advise, nothing more BUT what I would like to ask other posters on this thread do you not own any copied films/music/software/hardware, have you not tried to get a job done for cash in hand, etc. Unless you can answer no to all, aren't you being at least a little hypocritical? Most people are very protective of their trade but undervalue others. Having worked in multiple trades I try not to.

Guardian Angel
13th March, 2013, 01:01 PM
Totally agree, the trade has been cheapened massively by people who haven't the first clue how an engine works. :(