Motorised dish mounting on South-ish facing wall

[rosiebsdad]

Hi All,

Wonder if anyone can advise me about this - I'm being a bit lazy as I could get pencil, paper and protractor out and draw it, but the voice(s) of experience will surely prevail :)

My end wall faces approximately 190 deg (or 10W in satellite speak I guess). I'm looking to mount a 1m motorised dish, but I'm wondering about what mounting to use. As the dish points further towards sats to the East (e.g Eutelsat 48E) the edge of the dish will get closer to the wall. Very approximately, if I'm using a 1m dish, the mount will have to stand 50cm + a bit more from the vertical to allow the dish to move towards the (theortical) maximum of 80E before the wall itself causes an obstruction.

So, my questions are:-

In reality, what is the furthest East satellite that I am likely to get a signal from on a 1m dish (in W. Yorks, approx 54 Latitude). If I'm unlikely to get anything past 50E then I guess it won't be too much of an issue, but if I can maybe get stuff from further East it may become a problem.
Out of interest, do dish motors have a "failsafe" mechanism so that if they were to go too far and the dish hits the wall the motor wouldn't carry on trying to force its way round, potentially burning out the gears/motor?

And what advice can anyone give about the mounting. I assume a right-angled jobbie rather than the curved type. How are the dimensions given in ads?

Any other advice or tips?

TIA
S.

[drunklama]

Hi All,

Wonder if anyone can advise me about this - I'm being a bit lazy as I could get pencil, paper and protractor out and draw it, but the voice(s) of experience will surely prevail :)

My end wall faces approximately 190 deg (or 10W in satellite speak I guess). I'm looking to mount a 1m motorised dish, but I'm wondering about what mounting to use. As the dish points further towards sats to the East (e.g Eutelsat 48E) the edge of the dish will get closer to the wall. Very approximately, if I'm using a 1m dish, the mount will have to stand 50cm + a bit more from the vertical to allow the dish to move towards the (theortical) maximum of 80E before the wall itself causes an obstruction.

So, my questions are:-

In reality, what is the furthest East satellite that I am likely to get a signal from on a 1m dish (in W. Yorks, approx 54 Latitude). If I'm unlikely to get anything past 50E then I guess it won't be too much of an issue, but if I can maybe get stuff from further East it may become a problem.
Out of interest, do dish motors have a "failsafe" mechanism so that if they were to go too far and the dish hits the wall the motor wouldn't carry on trying to force its way round, potentially burning out the gears/motor?

And what advice can anyone give about the mounting. I assume a right-angled jobbie rather than the curved type. How are the dimensions given in ads?

Any other advice or tips?

TIA
S.
24inch t and k brackets mounted perfectly plumb.. but then again you have giving some preety precise calculations so you should be able to figure it out... 50cm is 19+ inches so
go from there mate. Perhaps take a photo so we can see what your on about?

[rosiebsdad]

Photo might be difficult as I don't have anything to take a picture of yet :)

I'll knock up a diag shortly and post that.....

..but your 24" suggestion (ooo-er Mrs!!) makes sense, that will give me about 10cm clearance, plus (or minus) whatever the motor mount takes.

Cheers for the rapid reply.

S

[digicon]

A Triax 1.1m is 110cm across so a standard 1m would be either exactly 100cm or just under, your turning Arc is only half the dish each way so your down to about say 45cm each way.

18" T&K's would be ample as these are just under 46cm in lengh plus the fact that your motor will stick the dish out roughly another 20cm at least giving you 66cm turning circle either side thats plenty for a 1m or even the triax 1.1m.

You could see to at least 62? east if you have the clearance and east is sloping for you anything past 62? east and you would have to be either 3-4 storeys up with an even clearer view of the east and then your going to struggle any further due to the Horizon.

Most people go for the most popular ARC which is say 45? east to 30? west

[drunklama]

all depends on where you are m8... trees.. houses in the way?

Take a piccy dude and i can see what i am working with.. 24inch t and k brackets are overkill but without seeing what your working with you cannot say what is right or what is wrong. Is the line of sight clear? trees houses ect....l you will proberbly get away with 18 inch brackets but without seeing it is very difficult and anyone saying what is correct is wrong without seeing the exact dish location and where the dish will be pointing .. it is like using a satnav with the image covered over and only showing the co-ordinates

[rosiebsdad]

Atached is a quick diagram I managed to knock up - hope it explains things.... and I think I've ended up answering my own geometry questions anyway, but which furthest East sat am I likely to be able to get anything from :)

S

[rosiebsdad]

all depends on where you are m8... trees.. houses in the way?

Take a piccy dude and i can see what i am working with.. 24inch t and k brackets are overkill but without seeing what your working with you cannot say what is right or what is wrong. Is the line of sight clear? trees houses ect....l you will proberbly get away with 18 inch brackets but without seeing it is very difficult and anyone saying what is correct is wrong without seeing the exact dish location and where the dish will be pointing .. it is like using a satnav with the image covered over and only showing the co-ordinates

Oops - must have crossed posts :)

I'll get a piccy from the side of the house - coincidentally, there's scaffolding up at the mo, so should be easy enough.
I currently have a fixed dish for Freesat which is fine, there are a few trees that may cause some fun a bit further round to the East. I've checked on dishpointer.com, it throws up a few things but all more than 50 m away (I think the trees have grown since the satellite pic was taken!)

Depending on visibility and quality of the pic, you may just be able to make out Emley Moor transmitter in the distance:)

Cheers again,
S

[rosiebsdad]

Ok, here's two pics.

lineofsite1 shows the skyline looking along the end wall, so at a bearing of about 100 deg (80E in sat talk?)

125844

lineofsite2 shows the skyline at a bearing about 160 deg (20E). Can just sbout make out Emley Moor mast.

125845

I'm thinking of a kit like this - any comments/thoughts?

Technomate TM5402 HD 97cm Dish Motorised Satellite System Package | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Technomate-TM5402-HD-97cm-Dish-Motorised-Satellite-System-Package-/130640015040?pt=UK_ConEle_SatCableFreeview_RL&hash=item1e6ac06ec0)

Gonna keep the Freesat as well - the Mrs can drive the Humax EPG and PVR function, works a treat.

Cheers again,
S

[digicon]

If you want the Bigger ARC your going to have to take it above the Gutterline and then still we are only guessing what sats you could receive, Below the gutter should get to 45-30 easily.

As for the Pack the TM5402HD is a solid bit of receiver, the rest of it is Crap. You would be better sourcing the components separately Triax 1.1.m/ Orbital 1m, Inverto Black Ultra LNB, T & Ks and if you do decide to go above roofline Scaffold pole is a Must.

[mdt]

[QUOTE=digicon;1587084] as for the Pack the TM5402HD is a solid bit of receiver, the rest of it is Crap. /QUOTE]


agree with @digicon... td110/gibertini 1m darkmotor and iverto black ultra sat on a t+k with 2 inch scaff pole and you will be set for years of trouble free viewing if set up correctly. regards mdt

[digicon]

[QUOTE=digicon;1587084] as for the Pack the TM5402HD is a solid bit of receiver, the rest of it is Crap. /QUOTE]


agree with @digicon... td110/gibertini 1m darkmotor and iverto black ultra sat on a t+k with 2 inch scaff pole and you will be set for years of trouble free viewing if set up correctly. regards mdt


Hit the nail on the head forgot about the Gibby 1m will last you forever and coupled with the only HH Motor that gives a 3 year warranty the Stab 100HH

[ramjet]

I have a triax TD110 dish I bought years ago, now using a superior darkmotor and an inverto ultrablack twin output lnb, driven by a spiderbox 9000, mounted on T-K brackets with a length of scaffold pole

so as mentioned earlier, get the correct "bits" to start with and you wont need any other bits, buy for longevity and not cheap c**p !

quality beats budget any day of the week

tm5402 or blade bm7000s should be ok, unless you get a vu or dreambox instead

[rosiebsdad]

Cheers all - as with most things I have a dabble with, nothing is ever as straightforward as I hoped :(

Can I ask for clarification about "... above the gutterline...."

Is this simply in order to gain height to try to clear those trees, or to get a wider arc [not sure that's the correct technical term]? I realise that if I mount below the gutterline I will never get anything beyond 80E (and that's just theoretical anyway) as I'll hit the wall....but from a height point of view, maybe my pics don't give a true perspective as I am pretty much above any close obstructions, so I'm not sure what I would gain by adding an extra few feet using a pole on the side of the house......

I would be a bit reluctant to mount a pole on the side of the house to go above the gutterline anyway, but I do have another option which would give me both height and also additional arc.... I have an outhouse where I could fix a long pole, which would also give the advantage of not needing to hang precariously over the garage roof to set the damn thing up in the first place :)
Quick related question - what is a realistic maximum cable run from LNB/motor to receiver? If I do go for a pole on the outhouse, it will be about 25m.

Thanks also for the feedback about the kit, looks like a google session is in order to track down the components individually. If anyone has any recommendations to save me some time, please let me know (PM me if you don't want to advertise publicly, or indeed if it contravenes forum rules).

I have a Fortec Star Passion+ HD receiver sat in my office doing nothing (Mrs couldn't get on with it) I'm tempted to invest in the dish and motor equipment first and see what I reception I can get with that and then maybe look to get a different receiver.

The whole point of this exercise is to take advantage of some of the additional "features" that a receiver such as the Technomate/Spiderbox etc are capable of ;)

Thanks again for input so far ....

S

[rosiebsdad]

Oops - just re-read some of the previous posts above, seems most of my questions have already been answered, I just didn't read them properly ...... D'oh, sorry :(

Guess its past my bedtime !!

S

[ramjet]

can I just clarify a couple of things here

height wise you can be a foot off the ground as long as there are no obstructions close by, lifting a dish higher does not gain you more satellites, its simply to stop buildings and trees blocking any signals

generally speaking you are wasting your time looking for anything other than the popular arc of 42 east to 30 west and need to concentrate on getting those satellites not some theoretical 80 degrees that is dipping below or below the horizon and weak as f*** !! LOL

a 25 metre run should be fine but if you can stay below the gutterline on the main house I would go with that option

mine is on my house but mounted above the gutterline in order to clear my roof so that the roof doesnt block signals from the south. if I could have mounted on the south wall I would have done so but its a party wall. being in the lee of a building helps with weather issues

I would definitely use the passion for initial testing and feasibility studies on free to air channels, then decide what to get afterwards, but a spiderbox HD or protek are the only 2 I know of with "gifts". anything else and you find your own "gift". you can add cs to the spider and protek too

[rosiebsdad]

Thanks ramjet.

After re-reading the previous posts I picked up on the gutterline/height reasoning, fully understand now. I always appreciated that the further East I went the weaker the signal would become - the main reason for the question was to get an opinion on what is or isn't feasible. The "popular arc" mentioned in the other posts has answered that and you have reinforced that as well, thanks.

I think I will take your advice, get the dish and motor up first and go with the Passion+ to see what is out there, then maybe look for another receiver to get some "extras" - although I thought the TM5400 could use some "extras" as well? Or is this what you meant by "find your own" ;)

Think I know what I'm doing now, many thanks guys for all your advice.

S

[ramjet]

Thanks ramjet.

After re-reading the previous posts I picked up on the gutterline/height reasoning, fully understand now. I always appreciated that the further East I went the weaker the signal would become - the main reason for the question was to get an opinion on what is or isn't feasible. The "popular arc" mentioned in the other posts has answered that and you have reinforced that as well, thanks.

I think I will take your advice, get the dish and motor up first and go with the Passion+ to see what is out there, then maybe look for another receiver to get some "extras" - although I thought the TM5400 could use some "extras" as well? Or is this what you meant by "find your own" ;)

Think I know what I'm doing now, many thanks guys for all your advice.

S

its not just that they are "weaker" as that is relative to your earthly position, they may be extremely strong in russia or the usa for instance. but as the earth is round you also have the horizon to contend with too, so typically we would say 60 degrees or so is the maximum, and here in the uk we try to stick to satellites we actually want and can receive and not have jodrell bank in our backyards :)

tm5402 is similar to blade bm7000s and definitely needs cs "of your own", neither comes with a gift, and neither do dreamboxes or vu or clarketechs or eagles or openboxes either

spiderbox has a 1 year "gift", protek has a gift but not sure on expiry dates or channels it gets as I dont own one

[lagerland]

I had a jodrell bank in my garden once O sorry i thought that was cockney rhyming slang....................:D

[ramjet]

I had a jodrell bank in my garden once O sorry i thought that was cockney rhyming slang....................:D


TMI M8 , TMI (Too Much Info) LOL :)

you sure it wasnt with ARTHUR from goonhilly downs ? ;)

[rosiebsdad]

its not just that they are "weaker" as that is relative to your earthly position, they may be extremely strong in russia or the usa for instance. but as the earth is round you also have the horizon to contend with too, so typically we would say 60 degrees or so is the maximum, and here in the uk we try to stick to satellites we actually want and can receive ...

Yeah, I get that - bad terminology on my part.
I've decided to buy a cheapie motor/dish from a mate, mount it on the outhouse for now (easier to mess with the alignment during setup) and see what I can pick up. Based on that, I will look at updating and mounting properly on the side of the house.

Need to consider planning permission though I think. If what I read on another post somewhere is right, you are only allowed two antennae on a building below 15m in height. I have my terrestrial aerial and a fixed Freesat dish (which I want to keep for the Mrs to use with her beloved Humax PVR), if I add a motorised dish as well I may upset someone in the know.
Here's a question then .... If I were to leave it on the outhouse, would that get around this issue on a technicality (if there is an issue in the first place), as it's on a different building?!

Cheers again,
S

P.S. "Jodrell Bank" comment - very funny, thanks for the laugh :)

[digicon]

Forget the terrestrial array by UK planning law you are allowed a 1m Dish and a 60cm dish on your property.