spiderbox 9900 motorising problems

[spudorange]

Hi am installing a dish and seem to be having problems getting ANY OTHER sat apart from the one I setup on. (1.0 west)

The box was already working on an old setup using 1.2 but needed slight tweaking with new setup via remote to get thor.

Here is the is the problem.

I set it pointing south at the usual 54deg and about 22deg but could not lock on using my horizon meter, pulling top of dish backwards
towards me & the wall changed incline to about 32deg causing meter to show 2%, I then rotated and got 97% and a good picture.

When I send it to 28.2 for instance I get no signal and, as it turns, the top of the dish leans forward to level or minus a few degrees,
sending further east sends the top even further forward of the bottom, making it about minus 20 degrees which is obviously wrong.

The neighbours is 22 degrees on thor and he gets everything
Mine is more likely around 32 degrees and can only get thor.

In motor setup signal is strong, but if I change from disqec 1.2 to usals my signal drops straight off and I lose the channels.

I have tried for ages to get a signal with the dish inclined to 22 degrees and can get no signal on meter AT ALL.

I know I have got it wrong but not sure what

glad if you can help.

[mdt]

Hi am installing a dish and seem to be having problems getting ANY OTHER sat apart from the one I setup on. (1.0 west)

The box was already working on an old setup using 1.2 but needed slight tweaking with new setup via remote to get thor.

Here is the is the problem.

I set it pointing south at the usual 54deg and about 22deg but could not lock on using my horizon meter, pulling top of dish backwards
towards me & the wall changed incline to about 32deg causing meter to show 2%, I then rotated and got 97% and a good picture.

When I send it to 28.2 for instance I get no signal and, as it turns, the top of the dish leans forward to level or minus a few degrees,
sending further east sends the top even further forward of the bottom, making it about minus 20 degrees which is obviously wrong.

The neighbours is 22 degrees on thor and he gets everything
Mine is more likely around 32 degrees and can only get thor.

In motor setup signal is strong, but if I change from disqec 1.2 to usals my signal drops straight off and I lose the channels.

I have tried for ages to get a signal with the dish inclined to 22 degrees and can get no signal on meter AT ALL.

I know I have got it wrong but not sure what

glad if you can help.


hi, firstly the dish is supposed to tilt because its following a curve... forget 1.2 and set your box up to use usals and put your lat/long in the reciever. now drive the motor to zero and then tell it to go to 1 west. when its at 1 west on the reciever go outside and peak the signal on bbc world on thor5/6.. when you have found bbc world news nip the nuts up and then send the dish to 42e and then 30w and if your pole is plumb,lat/long are correct and motor lat is correct then it should track the arc correctly. you may need to make very small ajustments L+R on the motor bracket and UP+DOWN on the dish elevation to fine tune it for the weaker sats/txp,s. take your time and you will be fine,regards mdt

[spudorange]

Thanks

I do know the dish has to tilt to track arc

My point in original post is that next door has a dish and it is inclined at 22 degrees, I can not do that with mine if I want a signal.

My lat & long are already in.

When mine rotates it goes way off compared to his next door.

Will try what you suggest but I feel I am still not going to get anything when at zero and inclined at 22 deg

As I have done it umpteen times so far, won't harm to try again lol

appreciate your time

[digicon]

Thanks

I do know the dish has to tilt to track arc

My point in original post is that next door has a dish and it is inclined at 22 degrees, I can not do that with mine if I want a signal.

My lat & long are already in.

When mine rotates it goes way off compared to his next door.

Will try what you suggest but I feel I am still not going to get anything when at zero and inclined at 22 deg

As I have done it umpteen times so far, won't harm to try again lol

appreciate your time


I can tell you now not all dish makes are the same and this aslo applies to Diseqc Motor manufaturers.

As an example i have setup at my own property for testing purposes of course Gibertini, Orbital, Triax, Technisat, Fraccaro etc.. and not one of them was identical on the elevation setting all ranged from between 20? - 30? on there own scales.

take the dish elevation with a pinch of salt as your motor could also factor in this as well, as mdt states as long as the correct setting on the motor is used in your case 54? then alter the dish as mdt says until you get a good stable picture on 0.8? west and the rest should fall into place.

Dont get hung up on the Dish readings they are only there to guide you thats all.

Good Luck

[ramjet]

agreed, my triax td110 was about 22 degrees on my motek , 19 on my previous stab and is about 27 on my darkmotor

[spudorange]

thanks guys

will try again today

[spudorange]

Still struggling

firstly I am
putting go to sat position and I get a 80% signal on tv but there seems no way to save it on spiderbox 9900

I have even tried to save it as position 1 but that does not do anything.

After exit I get no signal, changing back to 1.2 I get signal
Changing back to usals I get no signal, changing to goto I get signal, which does not save aagghhh

help please

doing my head in

thanks

[ramjet]

you cannot save a position in usals on a spiderbox, only in diseqc v1.2

in usals you set your location in motor setup using the green button , set long and lat and save it ,and that is all you do, having added a channel list first ,and then send it to 0.8w on bbc world news or btv or the music channel, so it sends the motor to the correct point

now leave it and move the motor and dish elevation only until you get 0.8w, then tighten it up and test other satellites

if you then switch to diseqc v1.2 you adjust using the remote control until you again peak the signal on 0.8w and then save it to the motor

now when you switch from usals and back again the motor should not move

then switch back to usals and check the other sat positions

[spudorange]

Thanks I did all that and now have 90% on usals & 1.2 but when I send it around I lose everything else.

Yo check I sent neighbours one which is 30 feet away, round to 42e and it shows about -22 deg (bottom in)

Sending mine to 42e jams it against the pole and can go no further, way past his inclination of minus 22deg.

So we have two identical systems 30 feet away.

His points around 22 deg, mine points to about 32 deg
His on 42e about -22 deg and perfect. Mine just tilts head over til it hits scaffold bar, hence no picture as incline has to be out.

YET I could not get anything when I have the incline the same has his working system.

I just know it's wrong and getting a strong signal on thor does not help when I move it to another

Happy to go back to square one but just unsure WHAT I am obviously doing wrong?

will pm you my lat and what I have set up in box just in case

thanks


you cannot save a position in usals on a spiderbox, only in diseqc v1.2

in usals you set your location in motor setup using the green button , set long and lat and save it ,and that is all you do, having added a channel list first ,and then send it to 0.8w on bbc world news or btv or the music channel, so it sends the motor to the correct point

now leave it and move the motor and dish elevation only until you get 0.8w, then tighten it up and test other satellites

if you then switch to diseqc v1.2 you adjust using the remote control until you again peak the signal on 0.8w and then save it to the motor

now when you switch from usals and back again the motor should not move

then switch back to usals and check the other sat positions

[spudorange]

ramjet can you pm or email me please and I will detail my settings on box.

I can not pm you and I don't want to post my settings up on forum

thanks

[mdt]

Thanks I did all that and now have 90% on usals & 1.2 but when I send it around I lose everything else.

Yo check I sent neighbours one which is 30 feet away, round to 42e and it shows about -22 deg (bottom in)

Sending mine to 42e jams it against the pole and can go no further, way past his inclination of minus 22deg.

So we have two identical systems 30 feet away.

His points around 22 deg, mine points to about 32 deg
His on 42e about -22 deg and perfect. Mine just tilts head over til it hits scaffold bar, hence no picture as incline has to be out.

YET I could not get anything when I have the incline the same has his working system.

I just know it's wrong and getting a strong signal on thor does not help when I move it to another

Happy to go back to square one but just unsure WHAT I am obviously doing wrong?

will pm you my lat and what I have set up in box just in case

thanks




are you sure you have set the motor setting on the lat markings and not the elevation settings on the opposite side.. can you not post some pictures of your dish as they will help us,regards mdt

[dick b]

you dont have to say exactly where you are just tell us the town/city and then the lat/elevation setting for the motor can be given from that.(but it could be simply that your dish is not central on the motor spigot hence you can only recieve the sat you set up on)

[spudorange]

Thanks

am in Birmingham and set it up as

000.1 west
54.2 n

================================================== ============================
Just to clarify things I have now ran a cable from my neighbours and get everything spot on from his dish.
================================================== ============================

motor is "almost" absolutely plumb on spigot, looking up from ground I suppose it is a tiny tiny bit off plumb when at 1 deg west and clear signal.

The reason I say almost is that it probably got tweaked and is a "fraction" out in all the messing about I have been doing.

When I send it to 28.2 it shows different to the fixed one & different inclination & angle to next doors dish.

I have included photo's to hopefully help.

I am convinced it's to do with the incline.

When sent to 28.2 and single stepped each way I get nothing so I believe it is the inclination causing the arc to track "out of range"

Not slow on the uptake so this is really doing my head in.



you don't have to say exactly where you are just tell us the town/city and then the lat/elevation setting for the motor can be given from that.(but it could be simply that your dish is not central on the motor spigot hence you can only receive the sat you set up on)

[dick b]

hello mate your coordinates for birmingham should be 1.8W and 52.5N(latitude 54 puts you above York) the 52.5N needs to set on both the motor and in the usals section of the STB and will not need altering.the 1.8W needs putting in just the box and may need fine tuning once set up. the mounting pole(the pole between the T&Ks)must be checked all round with a spirit level for 100% plumb and the dish must be 100% central on the motor spigot you dont stand a chance otherwise. I"ll try and do a sketch and edit it in later

heres some pics of an old setup

[ramjet]

as dick_b says your details seem to be 2 degrees or so out on both long and lat

you need to do as he says and start again, I am further north than you and yet my details are nearer the mark than yours ;)

I am not saying this will cure your problems but clearly you havent got the foundations right before getting to second floor level, and then wondering why the walls look similar to the tower at pisa :)

it also begs the question as to how come your neighbours can be correct if you were using these incorrect coordinates and settings ?

as for your pictures, it needs better pictures that are close up than the above are, cannot really see what is happening or how the dish is mounted to the motor or the motor to the pole from those far away pictures (I know its hard given where it actually is)

my pm is always switched off and never gets switched on for anybody ! I dont care what their reasons are, use the forum is my motto, and if it cannot be said on the forum then its shouldnt be said at all

but as mentioned above your approximate location is good enough, like birmingham or wolverhampton etc

it doesnt have to be as precise as your own postcode

[spudorange]

EDIT: my mistake (typo)

I was on 52.4 (not 54.2) BUT on .01 not the required 1.8
==========================================

Thanks to both of you, knew something was out

will retry with new settings and post up


as dick_b says your details seem to be 2 degrees or so out on both long and lat

you need to do as he says and start again, I am further north than you and yet my details are nearer the mark than yours ;)

I am not saying this will cure your problems but clearly you haven't got the foundations right before getting to second floor level, and then wondering why the walls look similar to the tower at pisa :)

it also begs the question as to how come your neighbours can be correct if you were using these incorrect coordinates and settings ?

as for your pictures, it needs better pictures that are close up than the above are, cannot really see what is happening or how the dish is mounted to the motor or the motor to the pole from those far away pictures (I know its hard given where it actually is)

my pm is always switched off and never gets switched on for anybody ! I dont care what their reasons are, use the forum is my motto, and if it cannot be said on the forum then its shouldnt be said at all

but as mentioned above your approximate location is good enough, like birmingham or wolverhampton etc

it doesnt have to be as precise as your own postcode

[spudorange]

Ok thanks, I did the following

changed the setting to 1.8 and left it 52.4 (excuse previous typo)
Checked level on the pole of which previous dish had been professionally installed, tweaked it slightly to 100% plumb.

I then tweaked the dish (usals) and got 98% on meter
I then put on 1.2 and tweaked remote and saved.

Solid signal on both usals and 1.2 now on thor.

Spinning around to any other sat means I get nothing as before.

Will post some better pictures up later if wished.

[ramjet]

ok , so at least you have a start position

so what motor and model is it you are using ?

is it the same as your neighbours motor or a different motor altogether ?

does the dish mount on the motor point upwards (like a stab) or downwards (like a darkmotor) ?

is it a triax dish and what model and size is it ?

what elevation is the dish now set to on the eastern side ?

post some pictures if you can with better close ups like those dick_b posted

ps:- include pictures of it on thor too so we get an idea of your midpoint setup that works

[ramjet]

as its a nice day I have just been out and took some close ups of my td110 dish, on a darkmotor superior, on a scaffold pole (using T-K brackets)

it is pointed at 0.8w thor so its almost pointing due south towards YOU

if you look closely at the bottom of the motor spigot and the back of it you will see the "crease" where I have also added black marker to ensure the dish mount is central on the spigot with its fixing bracket straddling that back crease to ensure its "in line"

on the dish mount you will see black marker indicating 27.5 which is where the triax markings are placed (looking at the eastern side), and the dark motor is set to my latitude which is a bit north of you

you will also see everything is "in line" too from right to left, where left is due south, in picture 3

this "in line" is as crucial as the pole being plumb (which mine is)


hopefully studying these photos may show you your error or errors in lining up your equipment, as when pointing at thor your setup should be similar to my photographs

I too am using a spiderbox on usals and my usals is correct for my postcode, and thats the only settings necessary for usals

hope that helps you

[digicon]

Tell you what Ramjet thats a nice clean setup all the bolts cut and tidied up very nice but do my eyes deceive me whats going on with the dark motor looks almost two tone you might start a new trend off.

[ramjet]

Tell you what Ramjet thats a nice clean setup all the bolts cut and tidied up very nice but do my eyes deceive me whats going on with the dark motor looks almost two tone you might start a new trend off.

LOL

just to clarify , I have added extra lock nuts to all the bolts, and cap nuts too, to protect the threads, and I vaseline them once a year too ;)

if you look closely you will also see an O ring below the motor on the scaffold pole, stops it slipping down when you adjust the motor mount
you can use a car exhaust bracket for this but mine is a split ring collar

as for the two-tone, you are quite right so have good eyesight

after seeing my last 2 motors start to rust on the exposed metal on the side those trees are, this year after installing the new motor and lnb I also got some hammerite gloss black spray paint, and on a day like today with no wind I cleaned the metalwork with a cloth etc and then its had a few sprays of hammerite, mainly from the trees side towards the camera (so due east)

its actually dripped a bit on the east side if you look closely, as I was concentrating on the western side where my weather comes from

so sharp eyed you are, and thanks for the compliment, its appreciated

[spudorange]

[QUOTE=ramjet;1684696]ok , so at least you have a start position

so what motor and model is it you are using ?
Darkmotor superior same as neighbours.

is it a triax dish and what model and size is it ?
Technomate 1050mm

what elevation is the dish now set to on the eastern side ?
52 deg on motor, can not tell on dish as no marker point, just 90,80,70,60 etc.

post some pictures if you can with better close ups like those dick_b posted

Attached

Thanks again

[ramjet]

can you double check that where the dish mount is clamped to the motor spigot that its central and that the rear crease of the spigot is central to the dish mount and its bracket

this has to be lined up exactly and cannot deviate right or left at all, and then when clamped it is never moved or adjusted

any left or right adjustment is done on the scaffold pole where the motor is mounted

also make sure the dish clamp and mount are the correct way round if these could be flipped at all
(I dont know your dish as I use triax and sly ravens)

also, if you put it onto 5 west the darkmotor marking should be close to the central zero point

when looking from below on 5w everything should be in line with the lnb arm at the straight on 6 o clock position

the only difference between your setup and mine is the dish, so I believe we have to look at the dish, its attachment to the darkmotor and how you have aligned them

[spudorange]

Thanks

it got dark so I stopped, gonna try fresh tomorrow.

cheers


can you double check that where the dish mount is clamped to the motor spigot that its central and that the rear crease of the spigot is central to the dish mount and its bracket

this has to be lined up exactly and cannot deviate right or left at all, and then when clamped it is never moved or adjusted

any left or right adjustment is done on the scaffold pole where the motor is mounted

also make sure the dish clamp and mount are the correct way round if these could be flipped at all
(I dont know your dish as I use triax and sly ravens)

also, if you put it onto 5 west the darkmotor marking should be close to the central zero point

when looking from below on 5w everything should be in line with the lnb arm at the straight on 6 o clock position

the only difference between your setup and mine is the dish, so I believe we have to look at the dish, its attachment to the darkmotor and how you have aligned them

[digicon]

Just had a proper look at your Photo's especially the 0.8? west from the ground ones, to me its moved the dish to far it should only move slightly off centre that looks almost like 4.8? east to me.

You need to reset the motor to '0' either by doing it in the menu of your receiver or by taking out the receiver lead on the motor hold the 2 buttons in for 10 seconds replace cable and it should reset.

Once done go back to receiver and move to 0.8? west again and check first how far the motor has moved from the zero it should be only slightly off.

[ramjet]

change to diseqc to reset it in the receiver

[spudorange]

Thanks guys

left it for a complete days as it was annoying me.

Don't usually have too much trouble with stuff but if I start off wrong, which I obviously have then I can see why I am struggling.

will try again soon and let you know.

all the help is massively appreciated

change to diseqc to reset it in the receiver

[spudorange]

Thanks

annoyingly despite there being a go to centre in manual there seems to be no way of actually finding that in the menu.

It shows it in destruction manual but can not access it.

popped a 7000 on and it has that facility on that box but I'm buggered if I know where they hid goto on the 9900

Gonna do a reset at motor as you suggest, but leaving it for a bit, bolts are starting to stretch now so want to do it right next time.

cheers


Just had a proper look at your Photo's especially the 0.8? west from the ground ones, to me its moved the dish to far it should only move slightly off centre that looks almost like 4.8? east to me.

You need to reset the motor to '0' either by doing it in the menu of your receiver or by taking out the receiver lead on the motor hold the 2 buttons in for 10 seconds replace cable and it should reset.

Once done go back to receiver and move to 0.8? west again and check first how far the motor has moved from the zero it should be only slightly off.

[dick b]

as digicon has said those pics of yours with the dish at 0.8W look way out,I"m at 0.4 west and these pics are with the motor at 0.8West and you can see everything is nearly in line.
if you do take it all down and start again the motor can be reset on the bench and you can play with the "go to reference"settings in your box.and get the motor right before putting it back on the pole.try and do the set up with a box that you are totally familiar with.

[ramjet]

have to agree with the above with is why I mentioned all this being straight north to south (in line) at say 0.8w or at say 4w or even 5w

the point being that it should be in line and straight when pointing due south which should be somewhere between 2w and 4w from birmingham (0.8w is 1 degreee east of brum) and yet it looks more aslant to me on that 0.8w position in his picture, its like the whole motor needs turning to the left on the scaffold pole and the dish mount to come more to the right so it all lines up

I did ask for closer pics like the rest of us have done and not these far away pics where not a lot can be seen

I appreciate its difficult due to the height and position of the dish and motor but if we cannot see it we cannot really help either

one reason myself and dick_b have posted close ups in the 0.8w position is to emphasise how critical this in-line business really is , the dish mount on the motor spigot being a case in point, using the manufacturer crease or welding lines as a guide for centrally mounting the dish mount to ensure its pointing due south when it should be

[dick b]

a few more pics to try and explain it more.this was done on the bench with the STB set to your longitude of 1.8West.
pic84 with motor at "0",everthing should line up dead straight.
pic85 showing motor on 28.2E
pic86 with motor on 0.8w
pic87 close up of motor at 0.8W.this will show slightly to the eastern side due to your longitude of 1.8West.
(we will get you up and running one way or another)

[spudorange]

Hi guys, thanks for input so far.

After leaving it for a bit I had a very quick go at restarting and have got a "little" bit of progress.

I will as requested take some close up pics hopefully tomorrow of the new position.

What I did and have at the moment:

reset motor to central position.
told box to save
selected thor
tweaked dish and got 95% on meter & strong signal on telly & stored it.

Went to 13deg and with a tweak (west I think) got 89% and picture, stored that.

Tried 28.2 & no matter how much I tweaked it I got nothing so I really do need to post up them pics.

If it's of any help, working back from strong 13 deg signal I got the following:

9 deg good picture no tweaking needed
7 deg nothing obtainable
4.8 deg nothing obtainable

Dunno if that helps or even means anything.

Will check back in tomorrow and just like to say thanks again to all.

[mdt]

Hi guys, thanks for input so far.

After leaving it for a bit I had a very quick go at restarting and have got a "little" bit of progress.

I will as requested take some close up pics hopefully tomorrow of the new position.

What I did and have at the moment:

reset motor to central position.
told box to save
selected thor
tweaked dish and got 95% on meter & strong signal on telly & stored it.

Went to 13deg and with a tweak (west I think) got 89% and picture, stored that.

Tried 28.2 & no matter how much I tweaked it I got nothing so I really do need to post up them pics.

If it's of any help, working back from strong 13 deg signal I got the following:

9 deg good picture no tweaking needed
7 deg nothing obtainable
4.8 deg nothing obtainable

Dunno if that helps or even means anything.

Will check back in tomorrow and just like to say thanks again to all.


hi m8, when you drive your dish to zero you dont need to store anything. if your dish is on usals with correct lat/long in it you just need to tell the dish to go to 1 west and it should move just a bit from zero to 1 west. when its done this peak the signal on bbc world then try the weaker txp,s at 12.606v/h and the low band nordic beams also. when your satisfied that you cant sqeeze anymore signal from 1 west by doing dish elevation and motor azimuth then tighten the nuts up.now send your dish to 42e and then back to 30w and if its set up correctly you shoul get a very strong signal, if your pole is 100% plumb and the lat is correct on the motor scale and the usals lat/long in the box are correct then the dish should track from 45e to 45w(line of sight and dish size permitting). regards mdt

[dick b]

with the symptoms you give it still sounds like either your mounting pole is not 100% plumb,or the dish is not 100% central on the motor spigot because on usals if they are correct once you have 1 sat aligned the rest follow suit(it doesnt really matter which sat you set up on with usals)

[Nutsandbolts]

Hi guys, thanks for input so far.

After leaving it for a bit I had a very quick go at restarting and have got a "little" bit of progress.

I will as requested take some close up pics hopefully tomorrow of the new position.

What I did and have at the moment:

reset motor to central position.
told box to save
selected thor
tweaked dish and got 95% on meter & strong signal on telly & stored it.

Went to 13deg and with a tweak (west I think) got 89% and picture, stored that.

Tried 28.2 & no matter how much I tweaked it I got nothing so I really do need to post up them pics.

If it's of any help, working back from strong 13 deg signal I got the following:

9 deg good picture no tweaking needed
7 deg nothing obtainable
4.8 deg nothing obtainable

Dunno if that helps or even means anything.

Will check back in tomorrow and just like to say thanks again to all.
Hi. I think your problem is one of the following:
1) Dish angles ie try to bring dish in sligthly on satellites where you dont get a signal.
2) Are your TP's(frequencies) correct for the channels you are trying to get??
3) Is your LNB positioned correctly?? Try and twist a bit to the left or right to see if it picks up signals.
4) Have you tried to move dish manually with remote to see if USALS is correct ie send dish to FREESAT 28.2. When dish stops
and you have no signal then move it manually with remote 7 or 8 clicks left(east) and right(west). If you get a signal then USALS needs adjusting. If no signal then dish angles/LNB may need adjusting.
To be honest if you are getting 1 west and 13 east you are almost there. Like i said your problem appears to be dish angles or USALS setting.

Regards

[spudorange]

Thanks again guys

gonna leave this for a few days as only just got back and weather a bit poor.

We will crack it lol

cheers

[dadd2533]

hi all new to forum and spiderbox so please be gentle. just bought a spiderbox 9900hd do i need to load patch and softcam on it or is patch enough going to be using cline which ive never used before as i have been running a protek 9750hd with free gift any help appretiated

[digicon]

hi all new to forum and spiderbox so please be gentle. just bought a spiderbox 9900hd do i need to load patch and softcam on it or is patch enough going to be using cline which ive never used before as i have been running a protek 9750hd with free gift any help appretiated


Load the latest patch and softcam and it should run similar to your protek, Not sure what differs on the gift side of things between the 2 boxes.