Sky RF versus Dreambox RF

[mrblue]

With a sky box you can distribute the whole house using rf, and can add as many magic eyes as you want to other rooms at a cost of ?2 per magic eye.

Now with dreambox/vu etc that has no rf function you can buy an rf modulator to do this exact thing, distribute the whole house and it is pretty much the same standard of quality. You can also use a vcr if you have one.

But why is it magic eyes do not work on their own with dream box/vu+. It seems you have to buy the tv link global plus and that can only give you 2 magic eyes max.

Could someone explain why this is...

[leez]

the rf 2 on a sky box passes small 9v dc voltage .

dm rf out on some models . or modulator dont

[RuberDuck]

personally i'm bemused as to why people would want to distribute HD content around their house at the lowest possible quality using a rf modulator ?.

[ramjet]

I would assume there is a patent for the built in version in sky boxes, stopping anyone else incorporating the technology into their boxes

but its not true to suppose that only 2 magic eyes can be used with alternatives, if you use something like a 6 way or 8 way slx or global distribution splitter/booster you normally find it will supply power to all outlets which allows for multiple rooms to control the infra red blasters and I have fitted one at my mates house that distributes using a 4 way slx to 4 rooms just to allow a spiderbox to be seen and controlled from 4 rooms on the rf channel. the main room where the box resides is connected using hdmi to the main tv but the spiderbox rf is fed throughout the house with a feed to his 4 way slx distribution box (which could just as easily be a 6 way or an 8 way). the infra red being "blasted" by the bluedelta blaster at the satellite boxes front panels

[mrblue]

Its simple, cheap and effective. HD is not even that great anyway. Im bemused by the HD craze lol...

[mrblue]

So ramjet are you saying there is no need for the tv link plus or bluedelta blaster and only magic eyes are required if you have a spltter box in the attic....?

[ramjet]

So ramjet are you saying there is no need for the tv link plus or bluedelta blaster and only magic eyes are required if you have a spltter box in the attic....?

NO

I never said that at all (unless you were referring to using just a sly box in which case yes)

my point is that the dc voltage with bypass can be achieved using an slx or global or similar splitter booster, and this is common in the distribution of a sly box rf system to multiple rooms so that any room can control a sly box over the coaxial system, and that has been around for over 10 years already

now if you apply the logic to a spiderbox 9000 or tm5402 satellite box (one that has rf built in) then all you need is the blaster to send signals to the detector eye on the front of the box (any box can be controlled this way)

the problem with boxes like dreambox or vu or blade is that they have no rf channel modulator included in the box itself (unlike the sly box or a spiderbox 9000 or tm5402) so you then have to factor in adding an rf modulator from the scart or phono output sockets on the rear of the box as well

so to make this work you need the following

magic eyes in every room where you require remote control access

4 or 6 or 8 way slx or global or similar distribution amplifier (usually in the loft) that is magic eye compatible and ideally powers the eyes to

a blaster system setup to "blast" IR into the front panel of the boxes being used (apart from a sly box which has this built in on its rf2 output)

and an adjustable rf modulator to transmit rf over the coax in the range ch21 to ch69 and tuned in using the analogue tuner on the tv (if the box doesnt have this built in or isnt a sly box)

my point here is that in post number 1 you made several assumptions that are not based on facts, whereas I have experimented over the last 12 years or more doing this task, starting with the old original digital slyboxes which only had rf and scart outputs anyway, working out the magic eye requirements to operate the sly box, adding more rooms into the equation using slx mains powered splitters, and then coming up with systems that support non-sly boxes like samsung and technomate and long before dreamboxes were made and sold

but the basic principles hold true

magic eye , dc power , coax cables with dc pass on any wallplates, magic eye compatible splitter-booster boxes , infra-red blasters to control the boxes, and adding rf modulators where none exist

I have successfully overcome all those obstacles over years of fiddling and messing about, and although we now prefer boxes in every room with hdmi connections to our big tv`s , it helps to know the basics of the building blocks that got us to this digital age from the old analogue age we have left behind

[dave-h]

So ramjet are you saying there is no need for the tv link plus or bluedelta blaster and only magic eyes are required if you have a spltter box in the attic....?


No he's not saying that. You can't just use any splitter/booster, you need need the global/slx ones that provide/pass power to magic eyes...

Sent from my HTC using Tapatalk 2

[dave-h]

HD is not even that great anyway. Im bemused by the HD craze lol...


That's usually down to people not bothering to adjust settings/set up their TVs properly and leaving them on the out the box settings, i.e set to dynamic, with contrast/brightness cranked right up, and picture 'enhancement' modes on etc etc...

Sent from my HTC using Tapatalk 2

[mrblue]

I understand mostly what you are saying, thank you for your advice.

At the minute I have a sky hd box distributing whole house via rf and have 5 magic eyes in other rooms all working.

Plan is to put in a vu+ duo with rf modulator. Thats gets me sky in main room via hdmi and distributes picture in every other room.

Now to change channels with my magic eyes I need...

a blaster system setup to "blast" IR into the front panel of the boxes being used (apart from a sly box which has this built in on its rf2 output)

Are you talking about a device that sits in direct line sight of the vu+ infrared and kind of mirrors it to other compatible infra red devices.

Had one of these before...trasmitter pyramid that sat in direct line sight of sky box and receiver pyramid was upstairs in my bedroom giving me ability to change channel. Mind you these were powered pyramids, 3 pin plugs on the end....

Obviously I'd prefer not to have a blaster box sitting in front of my vu+ duo but if its the only way then it wont be a problem.

Just to confirm I have an slx 8 way amp in the attic so should be fine..

[mrblue]

These are the infra red senders we had...about 12 years ago...lol

[johnny yen]

if you have a iphone get the dreamote lite app you can then use your phone as a remote control for the vu over your wireless network

[ramjet]

yes you could use those pyramids , but the global and blueblaster offerings are smaller and more subtle, consisting of either a matchbox sized box that "blasts" IR at the front of the duo, or have wires attached with tiny led emitters that you attach or dangle in front of the duo, the point being these take the magic eye signals and "blast" them into the duo just as if you were sat in front of the duo with your remote control

so you would have rf2 out on sky box connected to the blaster, and then the blaster connected to the modulator for the duo, then to the slx or global splitter-booster, and each rf aerial output going to the various rooms as you have now from that splitter, lighting up the magic eye leds, and the blaster awaits the signals from the eyes, as does the slybox on its rf2

[mrblue]

So its just really either of these I have to order....

GLOBAL INVACOM TV LINK PLUS ADAPTER + PSU + MAGIC EYE | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GLOBAL-INVACOM-TV-LINK-PLUS-ADAPTER-PSU-MAGIC-EYE-/330734686862?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_Video_Remote Controls&hash=item4d0152d28e)

BLUE DELTA - SMART-BLASTER - IR RELAY, REMOTE | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLUE-DELTA-SMART-BLASTER-IR-RELAY-REMOTE-/130734361935?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_Video_Remote Controls&hash=item1e70600d4f)

[ramjet]

So its just really either of these I have to order....

GLOBAL INVACOM TV LINK PLUS ADAPTER + PSU + MAGIC EYE | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GLOBAL-INVACOM-TV-LINK-PLUS-ADAPTER-PSU-MAGIC-EYE-/330734686862?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_Video_Remote Controls&hash=item4d0152d28e)

BLUE DELTA - SMART-BLASTER - IR RELAY, REMOTE | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BLUE-DELTA-SMART-BLASTER-IR-RELAY-REMOTE-/130734361935?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_Video_Remote Controls&hash=item1e70600d4f)

the global one yes

as for the blue delta , the one I fitted had the psu, like this

Bluedelta Smart Blaster Universal - Remote IR Relay | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bluedelta-Smart-Blaster-Universal-Remote-IR-Relay-/330665040015?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_Video_Remote Controls&hash=item4cfd2c188f)

item code 330665040015

[mrblue]

Ive made a diagram of the way I think setup should be but I do not think its right as I dont think the blue delta has inputs and outputs.

I have just bought a blue delta and global tv link plus. So should get a chance to see how each of them work this weekend.

Bit of a shabby diagram..lol

[mrblue]

I knew I was wrong. I am pretty sure this is the correct setup. Aerial coax from roof aerial plugs into aerial input on rf modulator, coax from rf out on modulator goes to input on blue delta and the output on bluedelta goes to the amp.

And the amp needs to be digilink compatible for it all to work, and that should feed as many magic eyes as I want...

[ramjet]

I knew I was wrong. I am pretty sure this is the correct setup. Aerial coax from roof aerial plugs into aerial input on rf modulator, coax from rf out on modulator goes to input on blue delta and the output on bluedelta goes to the amp.

And the amp needs to be digilink compatible for it all to work, and that should feed as many magic eyes as I want...

is the correct answer

and if you were to add the sly box , you would put it in somewhere after the rf modulator but before the slx

[mrblue]

And just the coax cable that goes in rf1 port of sky box, that goes back into my main tv to give me my freeview, yeah..

And the triax trilink, that basically combines the rf modulator with blue delta, probably a better simple option imo....

Also is the rf on a vcr a 9v rf2 or is it just the same as rf modulator..

[ramjet]

Also is the rf on a vcr a 9v rf2 or is it just the same as rf modulator..


a vcr is a method of using an obsolete piece of equipment to change scart or phono inputs into an rf output as it employed an rf modulator to output to analogue tv (albeit a much larger box that a simple rf modulator)

a standard magic eye supply is 9 volts from a sly box, or from the global or powered bluedelta, or I would assume from the slx or global amplifiers

a vcr has no voltage on its rf output

[mrblue]

Not working with blue delta blaster, going to try it with triax tri link now...

[ramjet]

blue delta works with any boxes , as long as its powered , the eyes are powered and the splitter is magic eye compatible

sounds to me as if one of the above has not been fulfilled, think the blaster has an led on it when its powered

[mrblue]

Have tried the triax tri link, it is pretty much rf mod and blue blaster in one.

Its distributing picture/audio fine but still not working with magic eyes.

This is my splitter box here, with integrated bypass..

SLx 27820BM 4 Way Aerial Amplifier with Digital By-Pass: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

[mrblue]

Little led on magic eye is glowing so there is defo power coming through but vu+ remote still not working...

[ramjet]

make sure the units are powered up locally using their own psu, as they wont get power from that slx, only the eyes will

should work fine with the slx though

suggest you try a sly box instead of the vu

[mrblue]

Have tried sky box and magic eye is not working with it either. It must be my cable setup, will have to try down at my dads house.

Basically I have no extra cables run for rf. I just plugged the living room coax cable out of the splitter box in the attic and put it in the UHF port. then from rf out on the rf modulator to the wall plate in the living and that distributes sky around my house. No aerial input or rf1 required.

I know I have lost freeview but wasnt really bothered;

I still thought it would work ok but if sky box isnt even working then it has to be the cable setup.

Dad has extra cables run for correct setup so will try tomorrow...

[ramjet]

maybe the rf modulator is blocking it , have the bluedelta or global connected to the wallplate and the sat boxes behind it in the cable setup

so modulator to sly box to bluedelta to wallplate , up to the loft to uhf in and off to the tv,s

at this point all the tv,s should see sly and the vu (stick sly on say pick tv and the vu on the vault)

ensure that wallplate doesnt have any capacitors inside it too as they could be blocking the magic eye signals

the global and bluedelta will need powering from either the sly box rf2 or a local psu plugged into the actual units

[mrblue]

Cannot understand this. Im not using rf modulator or blue delta or triax tri link.

Ive reverted back to my sky plus box and have spent the evening pulling cables from roof space just downstairs to living room to copy the setup my dad has.

Roof aerial coax extended down to aerial input of sky box

Coax cable from uhf port of slx4b to rf2 on sky box

And coax cable from rf1 to tv

Magic eye connected to bedroom tv coax and led is red but still got no control

Thought it would be simpler with sky plus box..???

[mrblue]

Just to clarify I have turned on the rf power in the sevices menu on sly box...

Have turned off box, turned off tvs, turned off slx amp and still nothing.

Nothings ever easy...lol

[mrblue]

Magic eye is definitely ok as I have plugged it direct into rf2 port of sly plus box and it works..

[ramjet]

are you sure you have plugged it into the correct input of that slx box ? it would be too easy to plug it into the fm socket instead (double check it)

is the slx box powered up ?

my m8 uses the same slx splitter with no problems on his spiderbox or sly plus HD box

clearly you need to get this working with the sly box , then start adding the other boxes into the mix

I suppose you could start by disconnecting the aerial input to the slx , using a back to back coax connector and send to one tv only, which bypasses the slx completely

get the sly box working , then add in the rest, once it works direct to one tv , try adding the slx back in and see what happens bearing in mind the sly box will have to provide the power to that single tv from its rf2 socket due to the removal of the slx , unless the global or blueblaster can do the powering ?

[mrblue]

I have doubled checked everything, all is ok.

Now, the 15m coax I had from slx uhf to rf2 on sly+ I have plugged out of uhf port and run to the tv upstairs.

So thats the coax from rf2 on sly+ box to tv upstairs with magic eye.

And it works perfectly.

So that pretty much tells me the problem is with the splitter box or the coax cables coming out of it.

Going up to put coax back into uhf port and plug all coax cables out of out ports exept the tv I working with in bedroom with magic eye.

[mrblue]

Well its working now my friend. Sly plus box perfect and have setup vu+ box with rf mod and blue blaster and perfect again.

Now what I did was plugged out all coax cables from the splitter box and just plug in the bedroom tv that Im working at with magic eye.

Tomorrow I will plug in other 3 coaxs from living room and 2 other bedrooms to see if it stops working.

Is there any reason you can think of why these extra coax cables could interfere or stop it from working.

Will investigate further tomorrow...

[ramjet]

Well its working now my friend. Sly plus box perfect and have setup vu+ box with rf mod and blue blaster and perfect again.

Now what I did was plugged out all coax cables from the splitter box and just plug in the bedroom tv that Im working at with magic eye.

Tomorrow I will plug in other 3 coaxs from living room and 2 other bedrooms to see if it stops working.

Is there any reason you can think of why these extra coax cables could interfere or stop it from working.

Will investigate further tomorrow...


excellent news m8

all I can think of is a short circuit on one cable , usually where the outer braid is touching the inner core

a case of testing one by one , and if one fails its on that one

[mrblue]

Ram, I think I know where I was going wrong. I was under the impression the blue delta box simply sent 9v to the eyes.

The blue delta IR has to be pointed towards the Vu+ IR, thats correct, yes?

[ramjet]

Ram, I think I know where I was going wrong. I was under the impression the blue delta box simply sent 9v to the eyes.

The blue delta IR has to be pointed towards the Vu+ IR, thats correct, yes?

yes m8 , its internal IR transmitter needs to be aimed at the vu front panel as if you were pointing your remote at it

[mrblue]

Think the triax tri link is probably the best option then, dont you. It combines rf modulator and blue delta in one box and also has the little ir sensors that are more subtle.

Im after a PSU for the tv link plus, cheapest ive seen is ?13 on ebay, if you see a cheaper one let me know..

[ramjet]

Think the triax tri link is probably the best option then, dont you. It combines rf modulator and blue delta in one box and also has the little ir sensors that are more subtle.

Im after a PSU for the tv link plus, cheapest ive seen is ?13 on ebay, if you see a cheaper one let me know..

the triax trilink is a new one on me, but seems to have scart input and built in modulator as you say, and seems to have two IR in the transmitter lead input too. only problem is that it seems to need the sky box rf2 to power it up as I cannot see a psu socket on the pictures or spec which is a shame as a powered version would do all the tasks you required (so somebody without a slybox would have a problem)


not sure which psu or dc power plug the global uses, or its input voltage either, so difficult to comment

I think you have now realised thet your opening staement was ill advised given the steep learning curve you have mastered in this field, and you are probably the best consultant now having tested all the current options ;) you can see my skepticism was well founded having dabbled with these options myself in recent years. the one I used a few weeks ago didnt need the modulator option but did need to be powered so I used a mark 1 blue blaster I had used myself a few years ago, but had a mark 2 ready, just in case

[mrblue]

The triax is powered, has its own psu. Will be testing today, will let you know how I get on...

[mrblue]

Getting on my nerves now...lol

Cannot get bluedelta working now even though I had it going perfect before.

Must be the position of the bluedelta ir in relation to the vu+ duo ir.

Will have to get the mrs to work the remote upstairs while I cutter about with unit downstairs.

Should have payed attention to the way it was when working..

[mrblue]

Ah, bad new mate, I never did had it working at all. It only works when I have my bedroom coax plugged into TV4 port of the splitter box which is the closest port to the UHF port.

So its really only working as a straight run from rf2 to bedroom tv since cable from uhf port and tv4 port are so close...

So its something to do with power or the way the bluedelta ir is situated in relation to the vu+ duo ir.

How did you position the blue delta ir with the sattelite box IR you were working with?

[mrblue]

All sorted Digi, I needed a new splitter box. The slx I bought new from amazon with digital bypass was no good, i bought a different one and i have magic eye control in all rooms through the splitter box....

[redondo5]

Very interesting thread. I would be interested in knowing if there is a way to send IR signals without using coax cable. So basically just a wired extender than takes the signal at one end and re-emits it at the other.

[ramjet]

Very interesting thread. I would be interested in knowing if there is a way to send IR signals without using coax cable. So basically just a wired extender than takes the signal at one end and re-emits it at the other.

marmitek pyramids will do it and they can also use their own special multi-function learning remotes with inbuilt wifi transmission too , or use some of the video senders that have 2 way transmission

[mrblue]

My dad used these pyramids for years, very good quality...

[mrblue]

I was trying to put this in for my friend today, i have one magic eye working but the coax coming out of the main tv input does not power magic eye.

I thought that these were able to power 2 magic eyes, but looking at the diagram it seems the main tv input is not for a magic eye...

tvLINK-Plus lets you control Sky Digibox (http://www.satcure.co.uk/tech/tvlink_plus.htm)

[ramjet]

looking at the advert is uses the rf2 voltage from a sky box to power it, which is the alternative to using an slx or global or triax splitter, or using a psu instead

[mrblue]

It takes its own psu aswell which i have. Magic eye wont light up unless its on but not a magic coming out of the main tv port.

maybe these boxes can only do one magic because i think the blue delta or triax can only do one unless going to splitter box

[digicon]

the Tv link plus can only do 1 magic eye the other rf output is just standard with no DC pass, if you wanted to power more magic eyes with the tvLink Plus then you would have to fit a triax RF2 splitter with DC pass either in the loft or somehwere along the line where you want to seperate the 2 magic eye feeds.

[mrblue]

Another problems is now that my roof aerial is going down to triax tri link and not through my amplifier splitter I am getting very poor freeeview reception.

You see my aerial is mounted in the loft and it only ever works well when plugged into the slx splitter, when when plugged direct into the tv it is not as good as going through the splitter.

Im just wondering if a masthead amp is the ldeal solution to put on the coax cable from roof aerial to aerial input of triax tri link. The amplifier signal wont be a problem will it...?

Also, the 3.5mm ir transmitters you get with the triax and also the tvlink plus, is it possible to buy these little transmitters seperate...

[digicon]

A normal standalone booster will never really improve a freeview signal it boosta all the crap as well as all the good at the same time, The only way to cure this is to have a good signal in the first place.

A masthead will be ideal as your aerial is loft mounted so masthead in the loft and power supply right at the very end and then into the triax, try and get a variable masthead either 0-25db or at least 10-25db so you can adjust if needed.

[mrblue]

I do find it hard to believe that roof aerial direct into tv is a glitchy signal but if its goes into my slx4b then its perfect quality.

Yep getting a variable 12-27db amp

[digicon]

I do find it hard to believe that roof aerial direct into tv is a glitchy signal but if its goes into my slx4b then its perfect quality.

Yep getting a variable 12-27db amp


Without knowing your exact location, Transmitter, distance from transmitter, Local Interference and your Aerial is loft mounted instead of chimney/External mounting plus type of aerial. Without a meter we dont know what signal you are getting and all the other variables i have mentioned contribute to this.

As a ball park figure a loft mounted aerial can suffer loss in excess of between 15-25db compared to an external roof/chimney mount one.

[mrblue]

Have ordered a 12-27db amp so should do the trick.

Ive found somer ir extender cable...

Marmitek IR Eye universal IR extender cable: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

Now, my bluedelta blaster does not have a 3.5mm jack but the casing opens up very easy, I wonder it is possible to solder to the ir sensor on the bluedelta board...

Would mean I can keep bluedelta hidden behind tv....

[mrblue]

Picture of bluedelta board, I presume the two on the right hand side are the ir sensors and I can wire the 3.5mm cable to either one of these.

I just need to get polarity right way round and it should work.

The job is doable but should it work...?

[mrblue]

Forgot pic....