lishi for saab 93 2003

[ninja123]

hi, is there a 2 in 1 for saab 93, 2003 onwards? I looked on 3d website but a little confused as to what keyblade is used.

I need to get into this saab to program a key

thanks for any help, ninja

[obdmaster]

Order key number ninja from vin and cut key them 93,s have a very light clutch on door barrel hard to pick.

I get my codes from here https://www.autosecuritycodes.co.uk/ (https://www.autosecuritycodes.co.uk/)

Also m8, if lost key you need to get airbag off steering wheel to remove CIM and eeprom cim as you cant program a key on these saabs without a working key the dealers ive heard have to replace cim module.

I used tango on the i did, hardest bit about job is getting airbag off with steering lock on

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzJW3A1SvFg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzJW3A1SvFg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnTs8rPcjkY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnTs8rPcjkY)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhFfhYptL6U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhFfhYptL6U)


These videos will help you m8.

[raptureready]

it could take ym30 2in1 10 cut lishi or the WT47T 7 cut which there is no lishi 2in1 for this i think, the very new ones are hu100 8 cut

[ninja123]

thanks guys, I know how to make new keys on these, i sorted it out myself, dont need tango or anything else, i can remove cim no probs, just the entry im at a loss with :(

ninja

[Fallen]

They make a single arm reader for WT key way.

[hauwkee]

[QUOTE=ninja123;1958044]thanks guys, I know how to make new keys on these, i sorted it out myself, dont need tango or anything else, i can remove cim no probs, just the entry im at a loss with :(

ninja[/QUOTe
Wish I was your guys levels i training hard on picking and decoding BMW and Vag but no much job on those i m getting to eeprom Work very soon after my soldering class After that i have move fun with my project
I have 15 customer used car dealer but no much going on
I trying to get Auction or Some bigger just wanna make key All day my Dream

[ninja123]

They make a single arm reader for WT key way.


Whats the part number or description for this one mate, and any idea where to buy from?

ninja

[Fallen]

Saab (2) reader is what it's known as.

[rapidlocksmiths]

Mr Li decided there wasnt enough demand for him to develop tool and make a WT47 2in1 pick , he does badge this as Saab 2 on the 2 tools he makes , he makes the old saab 2 standard blind touch pick and a reader tool that requires the lock to be picked for accuracy .

[ninja123]

I have found the pick on 3d website, but cant find the decoder anywhere - I suppose I can order key cut codes instead, at least I can get in to do the main job with just the pick!!

Thanks guys, ninja

[rapidlocksmiths]

The problem is the copies and the support the copy tools get , to develop a new tool mr li needs a minimum order to cover costs of development and tooling and to make a living , so he sets the minimum order for a new tool , no one will invest in the new size of this as will be copied within a month of release and most subscribe to copies over original tools , i can understand his stance on this , why invent and develop so much to support the copy factorys and not yourself , hes approaching retirement age so may well just shut up shop and put his feet up.

The sad fact is , it is unlikely their will be many if any more new 2in1 tools due to the copies , so this wt47 , the new va2 , and any new locks that come along that require a new tool will probably not happen unless li sees support for what he does, its a shame and another classic example of the state of the trade.

hickleys may stock the wt47 reader .

failiing this mate , pick it open and strip the lock down if you cant get codes.

[paul_12345]

The problem is the copies and the support the copy tools get , to develop a new tool mr li needs a minimum order to cover costs of development and tooling and to make a living , so he sets the minimum order for a new tool , no one will invest in the new size of this as will be copied within a month of release and most subscribe to copies over original tools , i can understand his stance on this , why invent and develop so much to support the copy factorys and not yourself , hes approaching retirement age so may well just shut up shop and put his feet up.

The sad fact is , it is unlikely their will be many if any more new 2in1 tools due to the copies , so this wt47 , the new va2 , and any new locks that come along that require a new tool will probably not happen unless li sees support for what he does, its a shame and another classic example of the state of the trade.

hickleys may stock the wt47 reader .

failiing this mate , pick it open and strip the lock down if you cant get codes.

people dont like clones they like the price of the clones, also by using local distributors you add their premium and that silly VAT to the price, if these were sold from a big far east distributor for 60-70 USD not a lot of people are going to pay 40 USD for a clone.

[ninja123]

Well put my friend.

ninja

[Fallen]

Talk about markup, each pick costs approx $200 because of crazy markup in my country.
Greedy distributors are as much to blame for people going the clone route.

[rapidlocksmiths]

Distributors do take the lions share of any tool , the manufacturer/inventor gets the smallest bite of the cherry .

I know Mr Li well and have spent a number of years working with him , I know how humble his lifestyle is and how little he actualy makes , the fact remains there will be very few if any new 2in1 tools in the future , because Mr Li is not covering his development and tooling costs before the tool is copied and his sales affected , and he will no longer develop for free .

What he will do is develop a new tool for a minimum order of 500 tools , so if a distributor wants a specific 2in1 , then as long as they buy an initial order of 500 pieces , he will develop it and tool it .

But no distributor wants to buy 500 units of a new tool , as it will be quickly copied so pointless investing in such a tool .

thus for future locks and the last few that no 2in1 exists for , it is unlikely a 2in1 tool will be made .

i can see all sides

users want cheapest
inventor manufacturer wants to make something for his effort and skill
distributor who invests in quantity wants a return on their investment
copiers need the inventor to invent so they can steal and copy

so inventor stops inventing and manufacturing , distributor has no stock to sell , copiers have nothing else left to copy and users dont get tools for new locks

its all a vicious circle

[raptureready]

there is about 50 distributors worlwide for genuine lishi products, thats about 10 tools per distributor, some tools are not used in some countries but i recon for future development , say for instance the old hu39 merc 4 track lock, say they tell the distributors they must take 10 of these tools x 50 distributor =500 tools and in this way production will go on in future, and the distributors get the tools pre sold to locksmiths before production , in this way the copiers wont affect the 1st 500 tools , could be away forward or its back to pulling panels, not my favorite pastime:)

[912secured]

The original reads no picking just read clip if you can not pick.

[ninja123]

The original reads no picking just read clip if you can not pick.

original what mate? clip?? please explain..............

ninja

[ninja123]

Can we not start a thread and get members here to participate in an order for new tools? Im sure the major suppliers in the uk will have a few for stock purposes, and in the bigger picture, 500 pcs is not a lot - 3 lishi's I would buy today are VA6, SAAB 2 in 1, and a Merc sprinter 2 in 1.

And I dont think I would be alone............................

ninja

[rapidlocksmiths]

Tradelocks did try this with the VA6 but couldnt secure 40% of the 500 pre orders required from distributors , the only distributors who wanted this were 2 in the uk and 1 in france , usa does not have this lock nor does many of the other regions .

Tradelocks looked at the viability of holding the surplus , but as the copy would be released within weeks , it was dead in the water .

A tool like HU66 for vag is simple to get distributors to commit to 500 units , as vag is common worldwide and the lock is common worldwide .

The recent 2 new tools for rover and for land rover will make a huge loss , as the copies came out 2 weeks after the original , and this had limited uk take up even though was one of the 2 most commonly asked for tools , when reading other forums its easy to see why as they talk openly of waiting for the copy within a few weeks of a tool being released.

its not an easy task to get worldwide distributors to commit to numbers for a new tool as every part of world has differing needs and locks .

Its a catch 22 , people would rather buy the copies as cheaper , distributors dont want to be lumbered with stock due to the copies .

i can see the frustration of mr li , he does all the work has all the genius , but doesnt reap the rewards of his work .

any new tools i suspect that come along in future will be those with worldwide quick selling potential .

i still keep in touch with Li , but no longer work with the distributors or tradelocks , i hope things change , but wont hold breath.

[ninja123]

ok, as soon as i saw the 71 and ne38 2 in 1's i purchased them immediately - I have no copy picks at all, as I have heard they are crap.

What would Li charge per pc for 500 new tools? If I buy them, I would only sell here, never over seas, untill got my initial investment back, what ever happens after that, well, we all know the rest.

But as far as a VA6 is concerned, I have 3 customers waiting with no keys on clio 3's, 2 from saturday, and due to bank holiday, I cant get key cut codes untill tuesday - if i had this tool I would have bagged these 3 jobs at ?195 a go, and each one completed in less than 10 mins, so I think you can see where im coming from.

ninja

[obdmaster]

Rapid Locksmiths im not suprised Trade Locks couldnt get the 500 order together as they sell the lishi 2 in 1,s at ?98+vat. Wander how much they get em for from Mr Lishi in china??

I do know where your coming from about future developments under threat because of copy lishi,s but if the price of original was lowered there would be no market for the copies.

But saying that at this moment in time i would gladly give ?98+vat for a Va6 2 in 1 at this moment in time.

[ninja123]

well i know how much i pay, and its less than half of that, and then its in us dollars !! I rekon mr li must sell these out at approx 20 usd/pc, so x 500 = 10k usd.

ninja

[paul_12345]

well i know how much i pay, and its less than half of that, and then its in us dollars !! I rekon mr li must sell these out at approx 20 usd/pc, so x 500 = 10k usd.

ninja

so just need to find 60 people willing to pay ~?100 for 8 picks

[912secured]

Original I mean old style. The new should read without picking both types. Just do not pick read then clip out a emergency key.

[Fallen]

Pre sale could be an option. They should look into it, it's the only answer I think. They tell the public what they have developed and release it when they have 500 sales. If they don't get the numbers after a year, refund the money. This would obviously have to be done from a world wide distributer.

[ninja123]

How many people in the uk do you think own a 2 in 1 HU66 lishi?

I think that this way would work, can mr rapid put this to mr Li?

Merc sprinters are world wide, as are saab's, and the new VA6 on the last clio, well although not in usa, europe is a huge place and im sure that 500 sales is not out of the way.

ninja

[raptureready]

pre sales will be the way to go and could very well create more sales, for a new tool development , distributors can advertise and get confirmed orders with a minimum of say 10 units but can be more , as i said 50 distributors = 500 tools , im sure you will agree these 2 in 1 tools are the best invention the locksmith industry has had for a long time:congrats:well done mr li

[rapidlocksmiths]

It is a great idea , However a little more expensive than $10k for 500 tools if buying and selling legitimately which most distributors have to , the tools to cover development , tooling and manufacture are around $32 each , then add shipping costs , then the killer you then add import duty , in the end this brings the tools in at around ?30 to ?35 each into the uk by the time everyone is paid .

you now have 500 tools , that you need to sell , so you will now need to look at your selling price , ie work in your own shipping and packing costs , advertising costs etc and what profit you want per tool to reach your selling price .
If you find it hard to sell 500 tools you need a few distributors , possibly worldwide , you will still want to cover your costs , shipping and reduced profit per tool , so will work out your selling price to the distributor , remember he will now add his storage , shipping and business costs as well as his mark up to the selling price and insist you dont sell cheaper than him , most distributors work on 40% of the selling price as their mark up to cover all this .
Suddenly the tool is up at the ?80 to ?90 mark , in which case you cant compete with the copies , who will release within weeks.

You also have to look at the fact that getting a new tool to market is all well and good , but 500 tools just gets the tool made and in production , it doesnt buy exclusivity , so once made and in production these will also be available in smaller quantities to all of lishis distributors including those in china .

I know that when tradelocks first got exclusivity on this range worldwide , they had to buy 1000 of each tool and guarantee to order at least 500 of each tool per period to keep this exclusive , any tool that doesnt reach the order is released to general market .

so if wanting a period of exclusivity with a tool the numbers get very much bigger .

The best way and only way i can see it being possible to compete against the copies is to have an office in china , a good website and play them at their own game , selling direct from china , shipping ilegally so avoiding proper import duties etc as they do , then you can match the copy prices with ease.

The 2 distinct differences between the copy sellers is that they dont buy in bulk stock , they dont pay for tooling and development costs and they dont pay taxes etc , so at a distinct advantage from the outset , most of the chinese sites selling 2in1 styled tools hold no stock , the copy factory making them holds the stock , you buy off a chinese site , they order the tool , then ship it and they work on extremely small margins something most cant compete with , on a lishi style 2in1 they will be working on between a $3 and $10 mark up per tool max , as they rely on quantity sales .

This is where you bash your head against the wall , you do everything legally and by the book and your double the copy price or more , or you take risks avoiding these costs to try and compete and pray the revenue dont catch you , or you set up a business in china .

Once a tool is made and in circulation , its simple to buy in small numbers thus you could buy from china say 10 tools , avoid import duties etc and resell cheap , which is why there are now so many uk resellers online of chinese tools etc , its not so easy to bring a new tool to market and recover your costs before it is copied and available 1 at a time from china cheap .

its funny when you read how dear a 2in1 is , especially when you see what a lockie earns from each tool and how much they charge to use the tool , i remember when lishi were first released in uk and europe , when it was just standard picks and a few decoders , these were sold at ?125 plus vat a std pick and up to ?400 for a decoder , and we are only talking about 5 years ago there abouts .

personally for what a 2in1 earns me i think ?70 to ?100 is an absolute bargain.

i will email li and see what can be done , and see what his view is .

[paul_12345]

well if you use a distributor in china for example with a low markup, then there will be no import duty or vat on single picks at least in the UK and thats without falsifying the value.

Also another way to go could be selling sets, i.e. making 5 new tools and not selling seperate but for a reasonsable price and with a minium order

[ninja123]

I think the pre order's is the way forward here, and a very good idea to sell 5 new tools in a set will also add to mr li's profits.

I look forward to the reply rapid..............

ninja

[rapidlocksmiths]

5 new tools , is all well and good , but i cant think of 5 for the uk market thats needed and would hit the volume , usa has more needs but again may struggle to hit the volume .

problem with tools is always take up , looks easy on paper , not so easy in reality , ie ;

VA6 would have a fair uk take up , if like the VA2 take up you would sell 500 tools over 2 years if not hindered by copies.

sprinter and saab WT47 despite worldwide not everyone has the capability to program these vehicles , so only those with the capability to program would have an interest , an example of this is Fiat sip22 and GT15 2in1 tools , SIP22 was one of the 1st released 3 to 4 years ago and hasnt sold 500 yet or hadnt up till january when i last worked on lishi with tradelocks , GT15 hadnt reached 200 yet in 2 years .
This is mainly due to the smaller amount of people that have a need to decode these as fewer have the capability to program .

New tools that sell well and will reach volume sales are those that work on vehicles that can be programmed with mvp , more so those that can be programmed by chinese clone t300 and sbb etc .

New Tools that dont sell well are those that the clone T300 and the Clone SBB dont program

New Tools that sell very slowly are those that only eeprom options exist for programming .

all of this needs factoring in when you consider stumping up money to have a new tool made , always in back of your mind must be that the copy will be available within 4 weeks of release , and the other distributors of lishi will be able to buy these in 10s a week after produced if not buying exclusivity by increasing numbers .

Pre orders is the only way you could do this without a major risk , but pre orders is a big ask especially when asking for the money up front months before they see a tool .

The process with li to get a tool developed is

step 1 ) send li 4 different locks for the tool you want that cover all heights for the lock with 10% of total cost of 500 tools as development deposit
it takes li approx 2 to 4 weeks to develop the tool and test it.

step 2 ) send payment of 40% of the total cost of 500 tools ( so 50% paid up front of total ) to begin production
production and packaging normally takes 4 to 6 weeks

step 3 ) you then choose whether you want it shipped by air freight or on a cargo ship , you then pay the final 50% of the total cost plus the shipping costs in full .

at this point your order is shipped by your chosen method .

customs then recieve order and you pay the import duty , customs costs and courier costs and duties due on the order , the order is then dispatched to you next day .

the whole process can take between 12 and 20 weeks .

thats if doing it legally .

The idea of using a chinese distributor has been looked at before , the problem with this is

1) finding 1 you can trust
2) finding 1 you are happy sending so much money too up front
3) finding one that will work any profit into it for you for taking such a risk

i have emailed mr li to ask if any movement on minimum numbers , ie even if a bit dearer trying to get a smaller minimum order , and a way around the import costs if a way he can work this with one of his chinese or worldwide customers , il await a response .

[paul_12345]

but your looking at it from a point of view of a UK seller using a chinese distributor, Mr li could just work with a number of major chinese websites they I'm sure have far bigger audience than say tradelocks probably one of the reason the copies do well, at 32 USD they would probably sell them for 30-45USD delivered.

If the website was listed on lishi website stating they sell original 2 in 1's who's going to pay the same money for a clone?? of even more for the smart copies.

also you would not make the 5 new picks for a single market make them for a mixture of markets but if sold by chinese direct from lishi this could be around 225 USD at that price it doesn't matter if only 2 out of the 5 are really any use to you.

[rapidlocksmiths]

mr li already supplies a few chinese suppliers he trusts , but only with existing tools in the range as they will not pay the tooling and development costs to bring out a new tool .
If li swallowed the development costs , swallowed the tooling costs etc and developed and made a new tool they would stock it , they wont pay to develop .

for the 1st 2 years mr li didnt sell to any chinese sites as tradelocks had an exclusive deal , and for 2 years genuine tools were the only tools you could buy , it was when li released the range to his chinese suppliers the range got copied .

You have to remember none of the chinese suppliers hold stock , most dont even have premises , they buy what they need when it gets ordered , so you order 10 tools , they order 10 tools and ship it , you are dealing with a person with a website only , not with a factory or a warehouse .
so none of them will commission and pay for a large stock of new tools to be developed .

This would leave li paying for all development , manufacture and storage in the hope that the sellers order enough to cover this , and he hasnt the wealth to do this .

if you can find a chinese reseller happy to front a load of money it could work , but none of the usual ones would do so .

Markets are the markets , you wont find many locksmiths in uk or europe who will buy an FO38 or a GM37W tool as these locks are not in europe or uk , if a lockie is near a usa airbase then he may get the odd one in europe , but other than that no one in europe will want these tools as specific to usa and south america only with the odd few in australia .
tools such as VA6 for renault are fine in europe , never seen in usa and other continents so no good for these markets .

some tools are europe specific only and others are usa specific with no euro use , not even the chinese can get around this .

which ever way this goes , someone has to risk the money up front to develop and buy an initial number of tools to bring out a new tool , tradelocks at 1 point were the only people willing to do this and build the range to what it is now , they wont do it now as due to copies cannot recoup investment , mr li wont take the risk himself for what ever his reasons are , so a chinese seller fronting upfront money , a reseller from another country or a collective gaining pre orders is the way this gets done.

for li its ok , he still sells his current range around the world , he is the only one who develops these so until he develops more theres nothing new to be copied .

ive emailed him for a way to commit to smaller numbers and what cost this would be per tool if pre orders were taken , ive also asked for any other way of getting the new tools released , when i get a response , i will post it

[Meat-Head]

Also unlikly but worth thinking about where people leech stuff of dk and sell on ebay

cheap pick trade only then flog on ebay to some gypo

like alchol expensive to stop binge drinking, expensive to discorage threft

[rapidlocksmiths]

Mr Li has agreed to develop the following tools

WT47 saab 4 track
VA2/VA6 clio 3 and toyota aygo
YM15 mercedes
VAC102 renault

He has done a deal for a large order with tradelocks , he will not release or sell these 4 tools to any of his chinese distributors at all in a bid to keep them from being copied .

so at least we get the new tools , id expect these to start comming through in about 8 to 12 weeks time .

[jamesnz888]

Here we go!
The Lishi Tools inventor, Mr Li from China just just announced the release of 4 new tools HON58R, YM15,WT47T and B111. These tools are well designed and manufactured in Li's factory and tested by professional locksmiths in Uk and USA. Grad these tools now if you can , before inferior copies coming out.

Only the tools from Mr. Li factory are the REAL Lishi tools.

http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/f177/new-lishi-2-1-tools-mr-li-inventor-lishi-tools-380703/