Are the Council Jokers or what man ?

[Saltire]

My old father Purchased and paid for his old "very tatty" pre-war ex council house years ago (its just a small two bedroom up and down stairs MID terrace house) in an area that is obviously a council estate and its not a very nice area at all, lot of crime etc etc etc.

Anyway, one of my brothers has always lived with my old father who is now in his mid 70's and can hardly add 2+2 etc, he's slow and old and doesn't know a lot about much to do with finances etc.

QUESTION : he got a letter with a headline "SINGLE PERSON DISCOUNT REVIEW" a couple of weeks ago from the Council Tax dept asking him if he would like to continue to receive his "single person council tax discount of 25%" and it asks him to sign it etc to declare that he is the only person in the property etc.

I cant understand why my brother isn't listed on there and my father cant either and he thinks all these years that he has not understood the letter correctly and thought it meant nothing as he was the only single owner of the property.

Now he is terrified and doesn't know what to do as my brother is unemployed and always has been through poor health but doesn't get DLA or anything like that, just the esa nonsense and that's it.

So, its asking him to either sign it and say he is the only person or to add any other person, I know its only a 25% discount, but at the same time I doubt he could afford to pay the extra whatever it is, and as my brother is only on esa etc, he certainly cant afford it either.

So people that know about these things, could you please tell me what he should do and the easiest way out, does he just play dumb to this and carry on and say he is the only person as he has always done or does he have to declare my brother or what and would he get into trouble ?

They said either way that they will use an "external agency" to check on things, I don't know if that's just balderdash and routine or if infact they will do all that, and what does that mean anyway ????

P.s, he isn't even sure what his full council tax is if he had to pay the full amount, he doesn't have a clue and to be honest, neither do I as I leave all that stuff to the mrs to deal with, hmmm.....

Please could someone help a.s.a.p as already the days to respond to his letter are just about finished in a couple of days, Monday I think, but that's ok I guess if he deals with it Monday if he knows what hes to do, know what I mean ?

Thanks guys and Girlies :)

[ifred]

Shouldn't voted for independence.....they never would of known!!
The vote meant they suddenly found a lot of missing people?
Sorry the 25% discount has come to an end, you just have to hope they don't try to claim the back tax.

[gmb45]

hmm tough one, if your dad is only getting a gov pension he wont have to pay council tax any way, and your brother wont have to pay it either being on esa, as for coming clean i wouldnt like to advise on that, but if their circumstances have always been the same ie dad just getting gov pension and bro just getting esa then neither of them can owe any council tax can they, best bet would be to make an appointment at cab ( citizens advice bureau )

[ifred]

hmm tough one, if your dad is only getting a gov pension he wont have to pay council tax any way, and your brother wont have to pay it either being on esa, as for coming clean i wouldnt like to advise on that, but if their circumstances have always been the same ie dad just getting gov pension and bro just getting esa then neither of them can owe any council tax can they, best bet would be to make an appointment at cab ( citizens advice bureau )
That a good bit of advise there!
one is the entitlement the other is the false declaration. It depends on how nasty they want to be CAB is a good route
Head in sand is a bad one

[ontherack]

hmm tough one, if your dad is only getting a gov pension he wont have to pay council tax any way, and your brother wont have to pay it either being on esa, as for coming clean i wouldnt like to advise on that, but if their circumstances have always been the same ie dad just getting gov pension and bro just getting esa then neither of them can owe any council tax can they, best bet would be to make an appointment at cab ( citizens advice bureau )

Good advice there...Cab can advise, can brother apply for carers allowance, that would help pay for any increase in council tax??

[Saltire]

hmm tough one, if your dad is only getting a gov pension he wont have to pay council tax any way, and your brother wont have to pay it either being on esa, as for coming clean i wouldnt like to advise on that, but if their circumstances have always been the same ie dad just getting gov pension and bro just getting esa then neither of them can owe any council tax can they, best bet would be to make an appointment at cab ( citizens advice bureau )

cheers mate,

Far as I know my father had pension from an old factory, but he took his redundancy from that place at least 20 years ago or more from there and that was that, my mother died something like 14 years ago and I really don't think she left him any money and I am 99% sure very cheap life cover she had (not really even enough to pay for her funeral) and the council paid for the funeral etc, as for my brother, as I said, he has always been on benefits, long term illness but he doesn't get any crazy mad money like some people get on DLA etc, although we always urge him to do so, but he wont do it, so I am pretty sure its nearly just the basic Dole money he gets (esa) and that's it.

Thing with my father is he wont tell any of us anything, and he is very secretive about everything, especially his Mail and finances etc, we only managed by luck to get our hands on this letter when he wasn't looking, lol, true.

So apart from talking to the CAB I am not quite sure at all what the heck to do as he would go off his nut if he even got a sniff of it, hhhmmmmmm :(

[Saltire]

Shouldn't voted for independence.....they never would of known!!
The vote meant they suddenly found a lot of missing people?
Sorry the 25% discount has come to an end, you just have to hope they don't try to claim the back tax.

What would be the 25% discount mate going by what I have already said about his house etc ? I mean, how much money are we talking ? if its not a lot then that could be no problem if I pay it for him, but if its a lot then that's a different story ?

Would it say somewhere on the letter what Band of area or whatever its called as I have the letter here ? I hear from my mrs something about it depends on the area band of the house or something like that, but honestly, I have no clue as she deals with all that garbage for us, so I dunno man.

EDIT : after a bit of searching it looks like BAND B, and it tells you the total cost per year too, so if the worst comes to the worst does that just mean that someone will have to come up with the 25% of the total, is that how it works, because if so its not as bad as I first thought, works out about ?24.00 per month extra, that's if I am correct and if the worst comes to the worst, but even ?24 per month if quite hefty man, hmmmm !! dunno where we would find that kind of money, surely they cant take or attempt to take that off a pensioner in his mid 70's ?

[Snowy79]

Your brother paying the extra 25% could make all the difference to some people who are unable to look after themselves receive the care that the council at present can not afford. I know it may sound harsh but I've friends with children who have special needs who have seen their respite care and council facilites closed due to cut backs and council jobs cut due to lack of funds. If everyone paid there way it would be a better society. I'm sure with ESA and other benfits your broyher is better of than a lot of people who are currently unemployed and sharing a home.

Sorry again if it sounds harsh but people are fast enough to slag off the banks and politicians for being corrupt then screw the system themsleves. I know it's not to the same extent but it makes me think if they were in the same boat as the bankers etc they'd be just as bad.

[ifred]

Your going to have to somehow help your father see the sense of, (I know at his age its hard to convince them otherwise) of the problem of declaring correctly and your brother claiming what he's entitled to!
Your dad much to his dislike can't tell the council to F*** off. They charge him with a criminal offence of false declaration which a fine bigger than the increase council tax that your brother can claim back from his needs!
I think if you explain to your dad the risk of court action and being criminalised (By the IMO Criminals) When he comes down off the ceiling hopeful you guys can sort a simple solution that ought to put your dad and brother is a better situation.
As I said sticking your head in the sand only lets the Ba****rd stuff him up

Been through a similar situation with my Dad 85 they truly believe is no one else business, they are correct but society has changed and were all stuffed by big brother society

[rds60h]

Saltire, the Council may have made a mistake with the letterhead title, because your father would still have been entitled to the 25% discount under the Second Adult Rebate because your brother is on ESA Benefit.
Best solution would be to inform the Council that you believe the discount to be the Second Adult Rebate and not the Single Person Discount, I would recommend that you do that either face to face at the Council Offices or in writing (and keeping copies for proof). I certainly wouldn't do it over the phone unless I was recording the conversation, but I think that you have to inform them that is the case, to ensure that the recording can be used as evidence should it be needed.
A face to face meeting at the Council Offices has to be logged and the details entered onto computer and they usually let you see what they have written down, so that you know everything is recorded as it should be.

Here is a bit about the Second Adult Rebate taken from the Citizens Advice site ::

"Who lives with you – Second Adult Rebate"

"You may be able to claim Second Adult Rebate if you have to pay council tax and you live with someone else, other than your partner. The other person must be 18 or over, not paying rent, not responsible to pay council tax, and have income below a certain amount. The other person cannot be someone who is 'disregarded' when the local authority work out whether you can get a discount in the amount of council tax that you pay.

To claim Second Adult Rebate, you have to give information about the income of the adult (or adults) living with you. Your own income and capital are not taken into account for Second Adult Rebate.

When you claim Council Tax Reduction or Second Adult Rebate, the local authority should work out which will give you the most help with your council tax, but they may assume you are not entitled to Second Adult Rebate if details of the second adult's income are not given. The second adult may be a student.

You can be awarded Second Adult Rebate or Council Tax Reduction (CTR), not both. You may be entitled to CTR, and you may also be entitled to Second Adult Rebate. You may be better off applying for Second Adult Rebate instead of CTR.

If you want more information about Second Adult Rebate and how it is calculated, you should consult an experienced adviser, for example, at a Citizens Advice Bureau - where to get advice."