Peugeot 407 remotes info

[armpower]

Hallo

I want to program a new remote for peugeot 407.
By the way, Peugeot made two type of remotes for this car.
6490R4 for cars with opr from 11647 (year 2008 > ) and 649096 (9170X3) for car with opr to 11647 (year 2004-2008)
649096 seems for car withou bsi.
The question is.
I have bought some chinese 407 remotes.
I've 3 types.The first two loooking as 1st picture in thumbail with small difference in circuitry around the board.The third one look exactly as the 2nd picture , with three buttons.All three result with pcf7941 inside.
The original one look as N.3 and 4 pictures in thumbail
Are this remote interchangable?
Can i use the china remotes with this car?
The car is a 2006 year and with Vin search function in Service box online, the resulting remote is the 649096.

Have you got some more info?
http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=290735&stc=1http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=290736&stc=1http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=290733&stc=1http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=290734&stc=1

[ArnautuIonut]

Try to put virgin chip ant then precode like in the picture . I copy this info for genuine remote for 407 before programing. The remote works on 407/2006 .http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=290880&stc=1

[armpower]

Hallo

Thanks for the info.Can you put a more detailed picture, it's too small i can't see anything.

Thanks again

[paul_12345]

Try to put virgin chip ant then precode like in the picture . I copy this info for genuine remote for 407 before programing. The remote works on 407/2006 .

do not waste your time, you can not precode any pcf7941 unless you want to start the car only - remote will never work on any pcf7941

[armpower]

Thanks.
Any other additional info about this remotes?
Are compatible with the original one?

[kemaster]

When speaking of Chineese remotes for PSA with 7941 it's all so relatively. It may work or it may not. You have to give a try. Personally I prefer to use original keys(most of the time chineese keys are waste of money and time and in the end you need again original key).

[armpower]

Good Morning

Just to add some more info to Peugeote chinese remote.
I've tried to learn this China' remotes to a P407 with Diagbox.
Result:
The transponder side work without problems.The car start normally.
But remote side doen't work on both chinese remotes.
Probably this remote are not compatilbe with the original one.
Now i'll try to order a similar remote (cirucit side) from a Turkey seller and i'll give a more try.
For now the result are = two wasted remotes.
JUst a more question.
Can i try to reuse the coded remotes to another car? Or need to change pcf?

Many thanks

Cheers

[P&D]

No you cannot reuse the remote pcf 7941 locks after programming

The problem with the China remotes is that they are loaded with the central locking for a Peugeot / Citroen car
but the problem is no one know which one

As you know there are quite a few of the 2 &3 button remotes
read the info on the remote with Hitag & save it

If you buy new ones read them before programming them see if the pages match....if they do the you know what car they will work with

Is it possible the reload the central locking info on the Chinese remote's
all pages in Hitag are open

Get an original read the info then save it
then write it to the china remote ??

Don't see why not

[ninja123]

nice thought, will give that a try.

so, any psa remote thats not locked, can be pre coded to work with any model if the relevant data is known?

I cant see it being that easy!!

ninja

[armpower]

We can do some test.
Any user with a new psa remote can copy the hitag data of remote part, before coding the remote to the car.
Will be an interesting test.
Colleting hitag data from various remote ,associating the data with psa part number and try to use this data to precode remote part in chinese remotes.
Sound good and wort a try.
When the car return to my shop i will try and see if works.
Come on guys , any user involved in this job can help this thread.

Cheers

[P&D]

nice thought, will give that a try.

so, any psa remote thats not locked, can be pre coded to work with any model if the relevant data is known? (YES)

I cant see it being that easy!! (Worth a try)

ninja

If working on the same principle as the PCF 7946 & 47 (Just a chip with a serial number) that allows you to write what data you want if you have the correct file

7941 chips i would say why not they all hold data different for all remotes for different cars just the same as the chip above
forget blank chips there serial number is 555555

What i'm trying to get across is the 7946/47 chips you can write to many times with different data until programmed then its locked

so why not with the 7941 same principle

[paul_12345]

If working on the same principle as the PCF 7946 & 47 (Just a chip with a serial number) that allows you to write what data you want if you have the correct file

7941 chips i would say why not they all hold data different for all remotes for different cars just the same as the chip above
forget blank chips there serial number is 555555

What i'm trying to get across is the 7946/47 chips you can write to many times with different data until programmed then its locked

so why not with the 7941 same principle

as I posted before the remote side on the 7946/47 is fixed you can not change anything, it just uses the remote pages on the transponder to sync the remote with the car.

7941 has no remote program from new and the manufacturer has to write a program to handle the remote, and the code for the remote has access to the last 2 pages of the transponder to do what ever the programmer wants to do - to allow some form of sync / rolling code etc.

So changing the transponder data would only work on the pcf7941 if they use the same code on each model.

judging by the thread on reusing the old remotes the old remote transmitted a encrypted code that contained information relative to each different model, so if the old remotes used different data for each model the new ones are almost certainly not going to use the same code. I wouldn't be supprised if they used pretty much the same system as the old remotes, apart from it would be adapted to allow auto resync using the transponder data via the last two pages rather than a one shot program and manual resync on the old system.

[ninja123]

@ paul - its still manual re sync on psa keys with 7941, I programmed a chinese remote to a 2007 peugeot 207 last week, car starts but remote had no output at all, so I got out another remote to program, and the remote on the unprogrammed key was working on the car before any programming!!

ninja

ps - I have lots of various PSA flips in stock, when I get 5 mins I will read and post data here.

[nazz2]

Here are some hitag files by z.bull, from 206 with and without fog light, 307cc,and 407 till 2008.

[paul_12345]

@ paul - its still manual re sync on psa keys with 7941, I programmed a chinese remote to a 2007 peugeot 207 last week, car starts but remote had no output at all, so I got out another remote to program, and the remote on the unprogrammed key was working on the car before any programming!!

ninja

ps - I have lots of various PSA flips in stock, when I get 5 mins I will read and post data here.

was the other key you got out a chinese key also?? if so read a few chinese keys and compare the last two pages on the transponder.. got a feeling it will be the same data.. hence why it would work as the chinese will probably have used the same code in the pcf using the same data. so any chinese key made by the same factory would work until the rolling code has rolled enough times so that the other keys code is no longer in the acceptable range of codes, or on cars originally with pcf7941 until the car updates the last two pages.

I bet you wont have this issue on original keys as they wont be so cheap to use the same code/data on each key - certainly not on the old keys

but suppose dont hurt to try ;)

[paul_12345]

@ninja also if that is the case its easy to find out without wasting a key, program a key/remote do not press any buttons, then get a remote that is for another model and write the last 2 pages from the first key, then try to use the remote.

if the remote code is the same then it should work like the one you did worked without programming

[reks13]

You think key ID not used in rolling code algo?

[paul_12345]

You think key ID not used in rolling code algo?

you mean UID ?? not for the remote.. at least not on the old system, seeing how you can write the data to another pcf7936

[ninja123]

You think key ID not used in rolling code algo?


if thats the case, how do you explain my scenario??

ninja

[paul_12345]

if thats the case, how do you explain my scenario??

ninja

think he is referring to the crypto password of the transponder, like the astra h remote thread.

seems like most makers are using the id to come up with the password, pretty stupid and unsecure if it is; but would make sense why fresh car keys wouldn't say a word how they unlock them as it would give the game away pretty quick.

will have to find some dumps from from astra h and find out where the keyid and cryto key gets stored so we can get a few sample sets to see if we can figure out how to get crypto from id

[RFRemotes]

Crypto key may not be stored anywhere. I'm almost sure it is calculated every time and not stored in EE. No matter if it is produced from PIN code or transponder ID.

[paul_12345]

Crypto key may not be stored anywhere. I'm almost sure it is calculated every time and not stored in EE. No matter if it is produced from PIN code or transponder ID.

wrong.. renault keys crypto is isk, and SKT100 (which I have not got) has a search for hitag crypto option

[ninja123]

im up for testing................

ninja

[reks13]

I mean that id of key may be used in rolling code packet.
anybody tested if try program remote on unprogrammed key?
I think remote wont program to car until you program transponder part.

[pagautas]

ninja, maybe you have any p308 blank keys?
I have a few cars need keys and also I have a few keys with completely black 7941 with id NOT 55555555 (maybe I've found a good suplier). I could check it could work or not.
psa codes for remotes would be 1606994880 and 6490R8


@ paul - its still manual re sync on psa keys with 7941, I programmed a chinese remote to a 2007 peugeot 207 last week, car starts but remote had no output at all, so I got out another remote to program, and the remote on the unprogrammed key was working on the car before any programming!!

ninja

ps - I have lots of various PSA flips in stock, when I get 5 mins I will read and post data here.

[paul_12345]

ninja, maybe you have any p308 blank keys?
I have a few cars need keys and also I have a few keys with completely black 7941 with id NOT 55555555 (maybe I've found a good suplier). I could check it could work or not.
psa codes for remotes would be 1606994880 and 6490R8

it does not matter if they are 5555555 or not, they will not working without programming the remote eprom!!!

[pagautas]

if id 55555555 then 7941 is not usable and key cannot be paired with a car because they are damaged or locked or somethink like this.

[paul_12345]

if id 55555555 then 7941 is not usable and key cannot be paired with a car because they are damaged or locked or somethink like this.

yes and no, they will be 555555 as they are new or reset, but they will not be programmable via hitag (these would probably still be able to program in a eprom like programmer that supports them, but still you can not get the remote to work as you have no remote firmware)

The transponders that are not 5555555 and are programmable via hitag still will only work the immo of the car, they can not work for remote.

NEW/BLANK PCF7941 = NO REMOTE -> IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT FIRMWARE

[neno11]

about ID like 555... see note at the end of article and why immo won't accept it although transponder is good.
http://www.vag-info.com/Orange_5_PCF7941_Reset.pdf

I have advanced programmer for pcf41 like xeltek 5000 but also can't change ID number. Such chips probably didn't pass factory ID programming. About other things I agree with paul_12345, you can't make to remote part work without filling EROM and EEPROM with appropriate datas. These datas are highly protected from reading and there is end of story. Unlocking with this orange 5 module is also questionable, does it work for european cars? In that manner I have several unlocked pcf41 from us that won't work on car, i mean remote part, car starting. I tried on peugeot 307, citroen C3. So, hm...

[paul_12345]

about ID like 555... see note at the end of article and why immo won't accept it although transponder is good.
http://www.vag-info.com/Orange_5_PCF7941_Reset.pdf

I have advanced programmer for pcf41 like xeltek 5000 but also can't change ID number. Such chips probably didn't pass factory ID programming. About other things I agree with paul_12345, you can't make to remote part work without filling EROM and EEPROM with appropriate datas. These datas are highly protected from reading and there is end of story. Unlocking with this orange 5 module is also questionable, does it work for european cars? In that manner I have several unlocked pcf41 from us that won't work on car, i mean remote part, car starting. I tried on peugeot 307, citroen C3. So, hm...

its more likely the config data being set to 555 that causes a problem reading/writing with hitag, orange5 wipes all data so no good without a new bin file and they only have chrysler

[Bllinda]

Maybe there is equipment That can see the effect of the radio channel streams date, the original key?
Or thought about it ....

[jimmykey]

Hallo

I want to program a new remote for peugeot 407.
By the way, Peugeot made two type of remotes for this car.
6490R4 for cars with opr from 11647 (year 2008 > ) and 649096 (9170X3) for car with opr to 11647 (year 2004-2008)
649096 seems for car withou bsi.
The question is.
I have bought some chinese 407 remotes.
I've 3 types.The first two loooking as 1st picture in thumbail with small difference in circuitry around the board.The third one look exactly as the 2nd picture , with three buttons.All three result with pcf7941 inside.
The original one look as N.3 and 4 pictures in thumbail
Are this remote interchangable?
Can i use the china remotes with this car?
The car is a 2006 year and with Vin search function in Service box online, the resulting remote is the 649096.

Have you got some more info?
http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=290735&stc=1http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=290736&stc=1http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=290733&stc=1http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=290734&stc=1



i suggest use kd900 to make a key for this car.
kd900 can make all peguol and citeron keys.
and never be locked