2009 BMW CAS3+ all keys lost

[indienick]

hi friends,

i have 2009 BMW CAS3+ with all keys lost that I want to do by AVDI using OBD only.
I have the new BMW and the old BMW interface for AVDI.

My questions is, I have no idea what to do with ISN.
What is it, why do I need it, where do I get it and what do I do with it?
I need it for all keys lost in this car right? Because I tried already and it
told me could not retrive ISN when I am under the CAS keys programming.

Is there a video somewhere?

Await your kind replies thank you.

[obdsystems]

I thought u needed CAS dump for this
and possibly engine dump for ISN - which the software deals with?

but you probably know more than me

[lastbornzombie]

Correct dump is required was successful with AK300 this should be mask 0L15Y worked first time via can connector

[indienick]

I thought u needed CAS dump for this
and possibly engine dump for ISN - which the software deals with?

but you probably know more than me

I have read some people say OBD no problem, others say requires CAS EEPROM.
But the new BMW software from AVDI can supposedly pull the ISN by OBD?

I do not know....so confused....all I know is I cannot get the car started haha.

[ninja123]

I have tried over 10 times to do all keys lost on cas 3+ ista version 45 (versions before this will work all obd), every one has failed, also, new on line software also failed me every time.

I have wasted lots of time trying to do these without success, so now, if avdi says 'this is ista 45' then I walk away.

Always ask customer if car has been into BMW dealers in last 2 years, if 'yes' then dont bother as they upgrade without you asking.

ninja

[indienick]

Ninja m8 if you can't do it i am convinced i should not even try this one. Thanks a lot for your support.

[Fallen]

I'm with you Ninja, ISTAP-45 = walk away.

BMW online is the biggest load of ~~~~, even the support guys don't know how to use it.

[Siham]

You will need cas and ecu dump to make key.
Good tool for cas3+ are :tmpro2 /tango/bmw multitool/tm100 (will be cool if someone can confirm it )

I have ak300 and if you want to do cas3+ you need to open it and pay of course but it will not work ,just good for cas1/2/3 , so better to get an hitag 3.2 clone work the same and lower price.

Regards! :)

[aassfour]

donno about AVDI , but its an easy job with Multi Tool and i can confirm i ve done many with Istap 45

[ninja123]

donno about AVDI , but its an easy job with Multi Tool and i can confirm i ve done many with Istap 45

I have heard this from several people before, but no one ever confirmed that it was version 45, and all by obd?? I even emailed the supplier about this and they state that version 45 'not all by obd'.

There is not enough money in these jobs to eeprom them, dealers prices are getting lower all the time.

ninja

[aassfour]

I have heard this from several people before, but no one ever confirmed that it was version 45, and all by obd?? I even emailed the supplier about this and they state that version 45 'not all by obd'.

There is not enough money in these jobs to eeprom them, dealers prices are getting lower all the time.

ninja
Not by OBD all of it and not eeprom JOB, i use multi tool to downgrade the CAS on table by CAS plug and then i make key, downgrade process takes 30 min , making key takes 1 minutes the whole job is 31 min without opening the CAS

[54321]

Not by OBD all of it and not eeprom JOB, i use multi tool to downgrade the CAS on table by CAS plug and then i make key, downgrade process takes 30 min , making key takes 1 minutes the whole job is 31 min without opening the CASDoes the multitool make a save of the cas data before downgrading? I'm just wondering what happens if something goes wrong within that 30 min downgrade process?

[Fallen]

Not by OBD all of it and not eeprom JOB, i use multi tool to downgrade the CAS on table by CAS plug and then i make key, downgrade process takes 30 min , making key takes 1 minutes the whole job is 31 min without opening the CAS

Do you do key programming by CAS plug or do you put it back in the car first?

[aassfour]

Does the multitool make a save of the cas data before downgrading? I'm just wondering what happens if something goes wrong within that 30 min downgrade process?
Multi tool gives u note message before downgrading to use a programmer and save data ( i always skip that message cz in case anything goes wrong i can reflash the cas ) i cant say how many BMW i ve downgraded and NONE at all had a single problem , 100% safe

[aassfour]

Do you do key programming by CAS plug or do you put it back in the car first?
u can do it by CAS plug , but i always plug it in car and and add it by OBD

[aassfour]

i can do CAS4 all key lost as well with Multi tool , but u need the help of a DME

[doolittle]

i can do CAS4 all key lost as well with Multi tool , but u need the help of a DME

100% success??

[aassfour]

100% success??

10000% Success
job done on table , ADD key by OBD

[Fallen]

i can do CAS4 all key lost as well with Multi tool , but u need the help of a DME

You have to read the CAS4, if it has 5M48H you must be very lucky to have 100% success!

[aassfour]

You have to read the CAS4, if it has 5M48H you must be very lucky to have 100% success!
i m using Dialprog, done 1 all key lost and 3 add key , not a lot of testing but so far so good

[ninja123]

In your own words, multitool says 'make a back up of cas with programmer', I read this as its not 100% safe and they know it!!

You're a brave man!

ninja

[54321]

Once you downgrade the cas to make the key is there anyway to then upgrade it back to version 45? I'm just thinking if you leave the car downgraded and it gets stolen a few weeks later you'll have some explaining to do.

[aassfour]

No u cant unless they go back to dealer

[indienick]

I'm with you Ninja, ISTAP-45 = walk away.

BMW online is the biggest load of ~~~~, even the support guys don't know how to use it.

OK, I am glad I am not the only one that does not know all about it. When they released it seems like they assume
everyone should just know how to do it or something. I just use the 10.4 software....still works fine....

They don't even have a manual for how to use the new software.

[Master01]

You have to read the CAS4, if it has 5M48H you must be very lucky to have 100% success!

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[obdsystems]

Of course no downgrade is 100% safe. Obviously doing on table better tho.

Haven't we got a list of flashes on avdi which we can use to ensure safe(r) :)

[obeids]

Hi

If you do CAS3+ on the bench then how do you get the start code right? Because CAS3+ with ISTA 45 or later requires the cycle of starts to get matching start code. How do you achieve this on the bench? I tried one the other day. It downgraded successfully and I could add key but it asked " You have 64 Attempts"..........

[aassfour]

Hi

If you do CAS3+ on the bench then how do you get the start code right? Because CAS3+ with ISTA 45 or later requires the cycle of starts to get matching start code. How do you achieve this on the bench? I tried one the other day. It downgraded successfully and I could add key but it asked " You have 64 Attempts"..........
i said i downgrade on table and i add by OBD on car

[obdsystems]

If you use Dialprog - you do not need luck...
Your job will be 100% good!

I've read the thread http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/440316-5M48H-CAS4-programmers/page8?highlight=Dialprog

Nothing 100% good
and ?2000 ish just to buy programmer which may fail
If your doing the older ones, might as well stick to xprog & rosfar etc


Not happy with downgrading regarding legal aspect - how many of you tell customer your putting old software back on car ???


I've got test CAS3+ unit here I've read eeprom with rosfar and loaded it in KeyTagTool ok
Surely this is best way, and safer

PS. i take it ISTAP-45 eeprom only encrypted if read via OBD

[aassfour]

I've read the thread http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/440316-5M48H-CAS4-programmers/page8?highlight=Dialprog

Nothing 100% good
and ?2000 ish just to buy programmer which may fail
If your doing the older ones, might as well stick to xprog & rosfar etc


Not happy with downgrading regarding legal aspect - how many of you tell customer your putting old software back on car ???


I've got test CAS3+ unit here I've read eeprom with rosfar and loaded it in KeyTagTool ok
Surely this is best way, and safer

PS. i take it ISTAP-45 eeprom only encrypted if read via OBD

Here when a car is all key lost the customers doesnt care if u make them only transponder, they just want their car running

[diagprog7]

100% ok bmw key

[ninja123]

100% ok bmw key

care to explain??

[obeids]

I've read the thread http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/440316-5M48H-CAS4-programmers/page8?highlight=Dialprog

Nothing 100% good
and ?2000 ish just to buy programmer which may fail
If your doing the older ones, might as well stick to xprog & rosfar etc


Not happy with downgrading regarding legal aspect - how many of you tell customer your putting old software back on car ???


I've got test CAS3+ unit here I've read eeprom with rosfar and loaded it in KeyTagTool ok
Surely this is best way, and safer

PS. i take it ISTAP-45 eeprom only encrypted if read via OBD



If customer doesn't have a key he doesn't care what you do for him to get the car moving again.

CAS3+ ISTAP-45 encrypted even if read by BDM and make key will not start because start code will not match. CAS will identify key and car will crank but not start. Did it a few times and learned.

[sparkz02]

I tried one recently, lost keys - managed to downgrade without removing CAS, tried to add key and it just wasn't working kept saying there was a problem with pre-coding. Eventually cust found the key his key worked.

Not sure if i done something wrong.

[indienick]

If customer doesn't have a key he doesn't care what you do for him to get the car moving again.

CAS3+ ISTAP-45 encrypted even if read by BDM and make key will not start because start code will not match. CAS will identify key and car will crank but not start. Did it a few times and learned.

what did you do to resolve it please?

[obdsystems]

assume he's talking about ISN code to match engine. so dump needed from that with no keys.
while i lack experience on no keys my experience has been bad even on spare keys on X5 & 1 series spare.

think this multitool sounds good but question some of the people on this forum - u can't beat own experience/f**kups lols to know truth from chat

[indienick]

anybody know who the original manufacturer of BMW Multi Tool is?

All I can find is Chinese.

[paul_12345]

anybody know who the original manufacturer of BMW Multi Tool is?

All I can find is Chinese.

xhorse - condor

its not a clone of another tool

[infotech]

hello indienick
how are you
i have produced a working key when all keys lost..with cas3+ on 328xi 2009 e90
also on 2008 cas3+ 335i

i own avdi orginal no luck with this
i own bmw multi tool no luck with this
ak300 no luck
zed full i just bought one month ago
make working key 16time start process till it will register sk isn in cas
working for me no problem haven't tried on any 2010 yet

[infotech]

please dont waste money buying the multi tool it is good only if you have working keys
cas3 or cas3+
no suceess ever with this when all lost
even i retrieve isn from cas eeprom
or dme
still no luck...
avdi is better 100%

[infotech]

tools owned
1.digimaster iii orginal
2.multi tool bmw
3.avdi
4.auto logic bmw
5.autohex ii
6.zed full
7.autologic mercedes and vag

[obdsystems]

good kit infotech. friend of mine praises Zedfull also.

thanks for your input

[aassfour]

please dont waste money buying the multi tool it is good only if you have working keys
cas3 or cas3+
no suceess ever with this when all lost
even i retrieve isn from cas eeprom
or dme
still no luck...
avdi is better 100%

totally disagree with u mate
i ve made many cas3+ all key lost with multi tool it worked
the only one that didnt make it was yesterday CAS3+ mask 0M23S which had a valid key , the software was 2015 its the latest cas3+.
i tried autohex didnt make it , i tried to read it by R270 its not supported.
the only tool that succeeded in doing it was the BMW EXPLORER which took me about 2 hours downgrading the firmware which showed fail 2 times but succeeded on the third time.
http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=324591&stc=1http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=324592&stc=1

[simaservis1108]

Xprog and TM100 is good for CAS3+.

[labusas]

How can xprog add a key? it will only read a dump, which is encrypted. Nobody mentions TMPRO2 wich makes key with CAS and ECU dumps

[simaservis1108]

Put on some glasses and read my post again.

[infotech]

ohh really assfour soo far i have tried 3 times 2 on e90 1 on e70 havent work for me...even single time

i even had a problem with ews4 on e53

may b im not doing something right..

with both e90 only remote function would work and no acc,i didnt have a second choice...but had zed full over a month i did 2 with it no issues at all..

[obdsystems]

Guys, no body is right/wrong - Ninja & infotech are clever yet they have failed on this

asssfour has other kit to fall back on and technique which seems to work for him.

> asssfour
so we downgrade using Mult-Tool - any extra cables/connectors required ???
Something we are missing ?????
You prefer this over AVDI ???


> Sima
Any version of XProg best ???
What about CAS4 / CAS4 + ??? Xprog safe in your view ;)
I see its on version 7.xx now. One day tempted to buy genuine.
Like my Red Rosfer clone.


Us who fail would appreciate feedback ;)
PS. Sima if you still need help with post PM me

[aassfour]

Guys, no body is right/wrong - Ninja & infotech are clever yet they have failed on this

asssfour has other kit to fall back on and technique which seems to work for him.

> asssfour
so we downgrade using Mult-Tool - any extra cables/connectors required ???
Something we are missing ?????
You prefer this over AVDI ???


> Sima
Any version of XProg best ???
What about CAS4 / CAS4 + ??? Xprog safe in your view ;)
I see its on version 7.xx now. One day tempted to buy genuine.
Like my Red Rosfer clone.


Us who fail would appreciate feedback ;)
PS. Sima if you still need help with post PM me
no special cables needed except the CAS PLUG and 12v
the only one time that failed i said before on a CAS3+ 2015 0M23S when i had to use the BMW explorer to do it.
i never cared if the flashing process on the multi tool works or no or if it kills the cas since i have a backup the explorer. but i always choose the multi tool since its faster in downgrading cas

[obdsystems]

no special cables needed except the CAS PLUG and 12v
the only one time that failed i said before on a CAS3+ 2015 0M23S when i had to use the BMW explorer to do it.
i never cared if the flashing process on the multi tool works or no or if it kills the cas since i have a backup the explorer. but i always choose the multi tool since its faster in downgrading cas


thanks aasssfour - so BMW Explorer has backup ??
>> surely total loss of flash would need somebody here to restore via xprog etc.
>> loss of eeprom i take it with Explorer


yeah BMW explorer looks the dogs-wats-its but anyone care to translate Russian manual to english???
It gives some options but even BMW Explorer claims not to be 100%.

claims to read ISN from many ECUs which avoids getting ECU dump i assume. e2200 just for that !!

- mega bucks. anyone else has this ?

[aassfour]

thanks aasssfour - so BMW Explorer has backup ??


BMW explorer looks the dogs-wats-its but anyone care to translate Russian manual to english???
It gives some options but even BMW Explorer claims not to be 100%.

claims to read ISN from many ECUs which avoids getting ECU dump i assume. e2200 just for that !!

- expensive kit. anyone else has this ?

i have the full kit cost about 10K
in 1 word . THE BEST for bmw

PS: u dont need manual . its very easy to use , even a kid can use it

[Siham]

Better than autohex BMW ?

[aassfour]

Better than autohex BMW ?
of course mate i had autohex and i ve sold it

[obdsystems]

of course mate i had autohex and i ve sold it

wow that was quick sale of autohex, you said you used it yesterday
hehe :D


well ZedFull sounds good - trouble is with all this kit is return on investment.

10K means alot of BMWs spares or fare few lost. Have to make sure other kit like Tango couldn't do it without little extra work

[aassfour]

wow that was quick sale of autohex, you said you used it yesterday
hehe :D


well ZedFull sounds good - trouble is with all this kit is return on investment.

10K means alot of BMWs spares or fare few lost. Have to make sure other kit like Tango couldn't do it without little extra work
its not a quick sale ive sold it like a month ago, i can borrow it any time i want, but the thing is i love to test all the tools and see their capabilities.
i ve tested avdi orig, autohex, multi tool, explorer, tango .... etc
the best i found was explorer. how i come to have all these tools ? i buy them test them and resell them

[decno1]

its not a quick sale ive sold it like a month ago, i can borrow it any time i want, but the thing is i love to test all the tools and see their capabilities.
i ve tested avdi orig, autohex, multi tool, explorer, tango .... etc
the best i found was explorer. how i come to have all these tools ? i buy them test them and resell them

Convincing...., you sell it and borrow it, you have great buyers.
Have you try version 1,0,21 of Autohex II ?
This version added a lot of ISN/SK for Mini and E series (2007-2014), and in this version you will find that all keys lost have been solved 100%.
I am almost sure, currently no tool in the world have a solution for ISN/SK same Autohex II with 50% of the price.
Another point which is very important, Autohex II performs a magic in ECU flashing:
- Ecu update is calculated based on FA (vehicle order) with consideration of that the mounted ECU is not for that car.
- You can swap the ECU to be compatible with the vehicle (DME 2.3 to be DME 3.0 as and example).
No tool in the world can do that.

I would like to ask a question, OK we managed to change ISN for a used DME to work for current CAS, how about flashing it for forcing it to be compatible?
OR
We created a CAS which not belongs to this car , how about FA and frequency and other requirements?
You need a tool to do all the job from A to Z, not just copying key or reading ISN.

[obdsystems]

decno1 brings up good points
a few sentences doesn't do the subject justice :D


Members may be willing to answer questions better on a forum which is private - not searchable with google by everybody & anybody. my understanding is this has changed recently. Just a suggestion ;)

[aassfour]

Convincing...., you sell it and borrow it, you have great buyers.
Have you try version 1,0,21 of Autohex II ?
This version added a lot of ISN/SK for Mini and E series (2007-2014), and in this version you will find that all keys lost have been solved 100%.
I am almost sure, currently no tool in the world have a solution for ISN/SK same Autohex II with 50% of the price.
Another point which is very important, Autohex II performs a magic in ECU flashing:
- Ecu update is calculated based on FA (vehicle order) with consideration of that the mounted ECU is not for that car.
- You can swap the ECU to be compatible with the vehicle (DME 2.3 to be DME 3.0 as and example).
No tool in the world can do that.

I would like to ask a question, OK we managed to change ISN for a used DME to work for current CAS, how about flashing it for forcing it to be compatible?
OR
We created a CAS which not belongs to this car , how about FA and frequency and other requirements?
You need a tool to do all the job from A to Z, not just copying key or reading ISN.

Decno i have nothing against autohex and yes i sell and borrow where is the problem in that if the buyers all are friends
but come on be serious man. U R FROM AUTOHEX TEAM so of course u will say AUTOHEX is the best. my advice stop promoting a tool U SELL

[decno1]

I used to check and read threads in DK since 2009, I never started a single post talking about Autohex, see all my posts, they are just replies about Autohex.

While if someone read your posts about Autohex:

1- You are the one who started a thread talking good about Autohex II (called :new tools?) , this thread started when we gave dealership to Lebanon dealer.
2- You are the one who said autohex.us (Leb dealer site) the official website and u know he is just a small sub dealer.
3- You are the one who start talking BADLY about autohex when we KICKED Leb dealer.
so who is promoting here?

And yes, give me a reason to not say Autohex is the best in what I mentioned? You know the mentioned functions are truly working,
My advice: to get rid of me, stop talking badly about us.

[bearheroes]

Bmw explorer is a very good tool BUT noone tells that every 100 uses of every function you buy needs to buy again...also doesn't do everything that claims. F.E doesn't change isn to cas by obd to all cars. No tool is perfect. It depends the reason you buy it. If you need only for keys tmpro is one of the most reliable tool but this also not for every car, such as cars with msv/d80.xx mss60, mss65. So there is no tool for everything.


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[Johnner]

I used to check and read threads in DK since 2009, I never started a single post talking about Autohex, see all my posts, they are just replies about Autohex.

While if someone read your posts about Autohex:

1- You are the one who started a thread talking good about Autohex II (called :new tools?) , this thread started when we gave dealership to Lebanon dealer.
2- You are the one who said autohex.us (Leb dealer site) the official website and u know he is just a small sub dealer.
3- You are the one who start talking BADLY about autohex when we KICKED Leb dealer.
so who is promoting here?

And yes, give me a reason to not say Autohex is the best in what I mentioned? You know the mentioned functions are truly working,
My advice: to get rid of me, stop talking badly about us.










Guys,give it over with the niggling at each other,and keep it on topic please.......Thank you...

[obdsystems]

wow BMW Explorer you really need to re-purchase function after every 100 uses????

Blast that I'd rather buy TMPro and do PCM via EEPROM as well as CAS. right -

[bearheroes]

Also noone told that bmw explorer needs seperate tool about 500 usd to prepare keys... Because doesn't have antenna or program key in ignition...so the decision is yours. :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[obdsystems]

Explorer about ?6500 n up.
http://www.bmw-explorer.ru/?lang=en

but still it looks so good - just as AVDI does. sucker for all this kit. I'll re-mortgage house...

trick with advertising is to look between the advertising
http://www.abrites.com/products/abrites-diagnostics/for-bmw-mini-2

In case of a problem with a specific DME, our team analyzes the problem at hand from the online logs and may add support to that motor computer dynamically on our server. The customer just has to repeat the operation without reinstalling anything.

Tho AVDI is good kit obviously - just dealing with complicated subject :) 1 kit is never enough / some better than others
doesn't get lost keys tho I trust Ninja

[aassfour]

wow BMW Explorer you really need to re-purchase function after every 100 uses????

Blast that I'd rather buy TMPro and do PCM via EEPROM as well as CAS. right -

No U don't need to
U just ask for re activation the license which is free


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[Atex31]

Same with Vag Can Pro.


Recharge the Dongle after every 100 uses.


If that's the price to pay for clone prevention, it's fine by me.

[infotech]

hello folks i have been using avdi,autologic,autohex icom online.
i must say avdi and autohex are good
for keys i prefer zed full(im not promoting the tool or anything my own experience i hav done few all lost key bmw. add key for infinti,landrover ,range rover 2008 n up no issues at all only downside is the token/credit system that needs to be purchased everytime tool is used)

havent used bmw explorer but i hear good feed backs.
hopefully i buy one soon to test it my self

[obdsystems]

hello folks i have been using avdi,autologic,autohex icom online.
i must say avdi and autohex are good
for keys i prefer zed full(im not promoting the tool or anything my own experience i hav done few all lost key bmw. add key for infinti,landrover ,range rover 2008 n up no issues at all only downside is the token/credit system that needs to be purchased everytime tool is used)

havent used bmw explorer but i hear good feed backs.
hopefully i buy one soon to test it my self

Thanks for feedback infotech -

I'm thinking of AutoHex BMW
How does this compare to AVDI ???

ZedFull looks good but I'd like the best tool possible for BMW without silly price so BMW Explorer out-of-budget.

So basically what kit has failed and you fallen back on :)
Cheers

[infotech]

Thanks for feedback infotech -

I'm thinking of AutoHex BMW
How does this compare to AVDI ???

ZedFull looks good but I'd like the best tool possible for BMW without silly price so BMW Explorer out-of-budget.

So basically what kit has failed and you fallen back on :)
Cheers
hello obdsystems
autohex compare to price with AVDI is better..
very easy to use

also you can update flash memory of ecu whenever needed,where in avdi always you have to ask support for new,autohex checks for u from online server.
i recently did on 2012 f10 egs flash update,after changing fluids
15mins job done

i also have bmw autologic from uk which is 15k canadian.
very good but again its orginal bmw,will not allow any special functions as isn read sk read and used ecu program
retrofit coding autologic is good and engine vanos adaptations. very good.

avdi i have bmw 24.00 online
i have read isn ms80 about 15min no problems.
key programming good
some fail cas3+
cas3 no problem.
coding function is weak compare to autologic somefunction dont work.

[decno1]

Just to correct something about ECU flashing update.
The update calculation (I-Step calculation) is done on PC/Laptop, not on server.
Servers only generate the required flashing data stored in databases and send to PC.
InfoTech did not mention the BIG difference between Autohex and other tools in ISN retrieving from DME/DDE, he also did not mention that Autohex II is 100% ok with all versions of CAS3/3+

[infotech]

Just to correct something about ECU flashing update.
The update calculation (I-Step calculation) is done on PC/Laptop, not on server.
Servers only generate the required flashing data stored in databases and send to PC.
InfoTech did not mention the BIG difference between Autohex and other tools in ISN retrieving from DME/DDE, he also did not mention that Autohex II is 100% ok with all versions of CAS3/3+
auto hex is a very good tool and i haven't tested on all cas3+ versions...but it has failed on f25 2013 x3 i was trying to read isn...after a team viewer support was arranged and they said for now we cannot do this,not only that also failed to read FA order.

i changed used egs it would not adapt or anything.

on this one.
CREDIT TO AUTOLOGIC BMW.!!
IM a fair player

[siado]

So if one had a stack of used CAS2 and CAS3 (possibly some CAS3+), a few random keys, and used DMEs. Using a BDM-100 and R-270, what else would you choose to match everything up? I'm not looking to invest a ton as once these are sold off, I can't see much use for them in the future.

I purchased a Multi-tool and I'm sure if it's a great piece of gear if it doesn't arrive broken. I'm sure I'll never get a refund from them either.

I'm more comfortable from the WinKFP/NCSExprt/INPA side of the house, so is it possible to downgrade the CAS this way by simply flashing an older ZUSB to the CAS?

Does it even matter if it's CAS3+ if read by R270 on a bench?

I'm trying to lay out a process in my head and I think it's like this:
- Read out CAS by R270
- Plug dump into something (what to choose?) and write key info into dump
- Program key via transponder with something
- write CAS dump with key info
- Clone virgin DME files into used DME
- install on full car test harness (benefit of being a salvage operation) and program via ISTA/P as if it were a car at a dealership

I'm sure I'm missing something and this is trivial to most of you. Any help appreciated (some of you already have and thank you).

[urcarpc]

What i would do in this situation

Tools to use:
R270\xprog 5.51+
BMW MultiTool
Voltage Multimeter
Approx 15cm wire

Step 1; Take out CAS unit to read mcu with r270 or xprog and make backup of eeprom.

((Alternative step; After reading mcu with r270 or carpog, open bmw multitool, select make key via eeprom and follow the instructions. Once successful, write eeprom back to mcu))

[Make sure to have a power charger plugged into mains on both car battery and laptop]

Step 2 (can also be done after step 6); Re-install CAS unit back into car and read via obd using bmw multitool and take a screenshot of the data window (which shows bmw number, keyblade code, CAS data... etc).

Step 3; Now access the fusebox (interior/facia).

Step 4; Using the multimeter, find a fuse which has 12v current and stick one end of that 15cm wire in.

Step 5; Check fusebox diagram to locate the start/stop fuses (about 5 fuses in total on some cars), its most likely one of the 5amp fuse you want.

Step 6; Touch the other end of that 15cm wire to each of the start/stop fuses you located, until you land on the one which switches on glovebox light (this also enables canbus through obd). After finding the right one, secure the connection.

Step 7; Now on the bmw multitool, hit the key learning button after you've connected to cas, follow instructions, it will ask downgrade flash,

Step 8; if all goes well, it will add key and sync everything

:);)





Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 2

[haiz0708]

May I know the price for zed full and token fee?

[cqae]

i think my zf was about 4.5k anmd token are about $1.70 each and we use 10-15 each time, sometimes 30-40

[austingreen]

i can do CAS4 all key lost as well with Multi tool , but u need the help of a DME

FYI, BMW CAS4+ All Key Lost by VVDI PRO and VVDI 2
https://youtu.be/MkSXxtor7DY

[aassfour]

FYI, BMW CAS4+ All Key Lost by VVDI PRO and VVDI 2
https://youtu.be/MkSXxtor7DY

and wt u mean ?

[austingreen]

and wt u mean ?
I mean VVDI PRO plus VVDI 2 can make key for BMW CAS4+ with all key lost. And post video.

[paul_12345]

FYI, BMW CAS4+ All Key Lost by VVDI PRO and VVDI 2
https://youtu.be/MkSXxtor7DY

who on earth is going to allow you to cut open there BMW ECU

[thebigk]

who on earth is going to allow you to cut open there BMW ECU


That's my issue with VVDI PRO, I can only see that plausible if you live in some barren area, the car is out of warranty, ie. from an accident, and they need a key. Otherwise you void their warranty by cutting. Or perhaps you cut open the DME because it's damaged, you fix a transistor for example and at the same time you boot it, to read the dump.

I am trying to find a tool that can read ISN from the newer BMWs like the mevd172p. I asked autohex, but they can't confirm for north america market if their tool can read ISN. Until I can get them some software numbers.

I'm with you Paul, I cringed when I saw that. As far as the CAS4...well at least you can replace a new one for ~$250 USD if you break it. Still though, I'm not a fan of the VVDI 2 requiring you two remove 4 components...I read somewhere that other tools require only soldering. Although I'm getting conflicting reports on the success rate. I don't want to buy a tool and start testing, for everyone one of my lessons costing me $250.

[bearheroes]

noone can confirm that any tool has 100% success with XEP100...So this is a point to start...xprog ori always is getting better to this mask but again no 100% success...
I have MDVEvo but i can't confirm because i haven't tested a lot... :)
The decision is yours whether you will start lessons or not...

[thebigk]

Yes I understand, I am not expecting 100% but I guess I am looking to damage (physically) the CAS4 the least. Do you know whether with original xprog or MDVEVO you need to remove any parts or just solder contacts?

Like I said...not 100%...but >75% would be nice.

[bearheroes]

MDPEvo surely not.
Xprog also...Just need to lift pins...
for me 75% is really scaring...If you think that for mdpevo price is 2500euro and for xprog ori with this authorization is about 1000 euro...
As i said decision is yours.

[thebigk]

MDPEvo surely not.
Xprog also...Just need to lift pins...
for me 75% is really scaring...If you think that for mdpevo price is 2500euro and for xprog ori with this authorization is about 1000 euro...
As i said decision is yours.

Do you mean to say that for you it's still not worth to touch CAS4 because of risk of damaging it? And because of the high price of these tools...you expect 100%?


I am still reading and deciding between xprog, mdpevo, orange 5, vvdi prog, and mag bench with x flasher, and mag pro 2.... too many choices!!

[smokey08]

who on earth is going to allow you to cut open there BMW ECU

:hororr::hororr::hororr: Shocking video from the Beijing butcher!!!

I can see an acceptable solution, Drill a small hole above the boot pin connection using a drill press on a slow speed with a sharp drill bit. Drilling slowly with a sharp bit should give 2 nice flutes of swarf without getting any inside the ecu. Pin through the hole to the pad (accidentally shorting the pin to the casing at should be ok as it is probably a ground anyway) then put a nice little rubber grommet in the hole when your finished.

[thebigk]

:hororr::hororr::hororr: Shocking video from the Beijing butcher!!!

I can see an acceptable solution, Drill a small hole above the boot pin connection using a drill press on a slow speed with a sharp drill bit. Drilling slowly with a sharp bit should give 2 nice flutes of swarf without getting any inside the ecu. Pin through the hole to the pad (accidentally shorting the pin to the casing at should be ok as it is probably a ground anyway) then put a nice little rubber grommet in the hole when your finished.

Much cleaner version indeed, but nevertheless...forfeits your customer's warranty. Take Bondo and then chrome paint, to try to blend it and make it look like no hole exists? :P

Besides that I may have to keep looking for a solution to get ISN with keys lost for this DME

[decno1]

Autohex II can read DME ISN by OBD II only.

[bearheroes]

autohex, bmw explorer, avdi...

[obdsystems]

-------------------------

[austingreen]

:hororr::hororr::hororr: Shocking video from the Beijing butcher!!!

I can see an acceptable solution, Drill a small hole above the boot pin connection using a drill press on a slow speed with a sharp drill bit. Drilling slowly with a sharp bit should give 2 nice flutes of swarf without getting any inside the ecu. Pin through the hole to the pad (accidentally shorting the pin to the casing at should be ok as it is probably a ground anyway) then put a nice little rubber grommet in the hole when your finished.
Take apart the ECU is better.

[thebigk]

Take apart the ECU is better.


It still voids warranty!

Here is BMW Explorer instructions:

"Less safe way:
Unscrew ECU case and carefully cut rubber seal by sharp knife, while heating work areas with hot air. Warning!!! Don’t let a knife to reach more than 5-9 мм inside ECU.
After rubber seal is finished to cut you must heat up upper cover (nearly connector) trying to lift it. You can pull cover firmly,screws will not allow circuit-board to bend.
After upper cover removed, you can reach boot pin. Boot pin must be grounded to the aluminum ECU case via 500 Ohm resistor.
"

http://www.bmw-explorer.ru/help_ecu_eng/workprogram/MEVD172P%20(N20)/MEVD172P%20(N20).files/image004.jpg


I'm still waiting on confirmation of whether autohex II can read cas4 in this situation for my market. Since I'd like to generate keys in all keys lost situation...but NO customers in this area would ever allow me to touch their ECU...unless....they're desperate and on vacation. Their car is salvaged and rebuilt. Or maybe they stole it? :P

[keysmith]

SUCCESS


I've got test CAS3+ unit here I've read eeprom with rosfar and loaded it in KeyTagTool ok

PS. i take it ISTAP-45 eeprom only encrypted if read via OBD

FAIL


CAS3+ ISTAP-45 encrypted even if read by BDM and make key will not start because start code will not match. CAS will identify key and car will crank but not start.

SUCCESS

Xprog and TM100 is good for CAS3+.

FAIL


cas3 or cas3+
no suceess ever with this when all lost
even i retrieve isn from cas eeprom
or dme
still no luck...


:hmmmm2::hmmmm2::hmmmm2::hmmmm2:

Eeprom looks like it has hit or miss results. Can I read CAS3+ with the red R270 so that I can use the TM100 module to add a key? And if I read the CAS3+ with the R270, save the file, downgrade with BMW multi tool and it fails can I reload the saved CAS3+ file?

[keysmith]

Bump :withstupid:

[Zeddy]

R270 will defo read dump.

[Adamon777]

Xprog and TM100 is good for CAS3+.

Can you tell TM100 better then TANGO? so I am listen TM100 has too much failure and to much function not work. Thank YOU!

[pkeeney]

hello indienick
how are you
i have produced a working key when all keys lost..with cas3+ on 328xi 2009 e90
also on 2008 cas3+ 335i

i own avdi orginal no luck with this
i own bmw multi tool no luck with this
ak300 no luck
zed full i just bought one month ago
make working key 16time start process till it will register sk isn in cas
working for me no problem haven't tried on any 2010 yet
Working on a 2012 with zedfull this is my out come.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160713/27f61e720739a8d75b92003f2746ae30.jpg

Of course no downgrade is 100% safe. Obviously doing on table better tho.

Haven't we got a list of flashes on avdi which we can use to ensure safe(r) :)


Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

[tibibond]

i did 5 downgrades on cas3+(4 x6 all 2011+, and 1 x5 2009). i used in 3 situations abrites and in 2 situation autohex (borrowed). in all cases i used 70amp power supply(ctek) and all did worked after downgrade. in one situation abritus failed mid programing but after another try all worked ( im pretty sure because of poor internet connection download flash has failed).

if you use power supply and obey all rulles(key outside of car, not disturb car etc) you are all good.

[K1nd3r]

389520Can someone with bmw explorer try to decrypt eeprom by 2+2 bytes in x010 and x020 lines, haven't keys, no isn

[SK Auto]

i did 5 downgrades on cas3+(4 x6 all 2011+, and 1 x5 2009). i used in 3 situations abrites and in 2 situation autohex (borrowed). in all cases i used 70amp power supply(ctek) and all did worked after downgrade. in one situation abritus failed mid programing but after another try all worked ( im pretty sure because of poor internet connection download flash has failed).

if you use power supply and obey all rulles(key outside of car, not disturb car etc) you are all good.

Hi
tibibond
what model CTEK power supply you using ?

thanks

[Gavra]

I am using this one (https://store.snapon.com/Battery-Charger-Plus--Battery-Charger-Plus-trade--P647677.aspx) and it is good enough for any flashing. Better are DECA (http://www.decaweld.com/en/battery-chargers/electronic/floating-start-assist/sc-80-900.2.55.278.gp.19804.uw.aspx) from Italy but 3x costs.....

[indienick]

i did 5 downgrades on cas3+(4 x6 all 2011+, and 1 x5 2009). i used in 3 situations abrites and in 2 situation autohex (borrowed). in all cases i used 70amp power supply(ctek) and all did worked after downgrade. in one situation abritus failed mid programing but after another try all worked ( im pretty sure because of poor internet connection download flash has failed).

if you use power supply and obey all rulles(key outside of car, not disturb car etc) you are all good.

That is not at all true man.....there are entirely too many variables that guarantee success on an iSTA45 downgrade.
Before it required internet connection, I always took my chances, but with the internet connection I don't even consider it anymore.

* Computer should not experience any interruption. I had dedicated computer for AVDI. Absolutely nothing else on the machine.

* Car must have good voltage

* Don't mess with the car whatsoever

* Your internet connection must be hardwired. Do not even consider if on wireless internet.

* Oh, and what if Abrites server experiences problem? CAS downgrade is not fast. 10+ minutes.
If the Abrites server has the slightest problem you are in trouble.

* On top of all this, there are some vehicles that you just cannot attempt. BMW 1 series in USA, I tried two
different cars, both cars required new CAS after I tried to make keys. But Abrites tool allowed me to try :-)

BMW X3 in USA also is dangerous. X5 is fine.

You really have to be careful and have a fair amount of luck. There is no guaranteed solution for CAS downgrade if using Abrites, plain and simple. My company has done at least a hundred of these and after the internet connection requirement I instructed our people to no longer even attempt it. Not worth it. Just order dealer key. Or EEPROM but I don't EEPROM.

[pepi]

The best way will be reading eeprom and flash with programmer before we do any attempt of ISTA45 downgrade .

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

[qwojtus]

Downgrade CAS3+ is safe because you doing flash only which means you always get connection again.
If you fail for the first time you can redo it till success or simply find on forum suitable flash and write with programmer.
I failed downgrade many times in first try but second or third job done :)

[indienick]

Downgrade CAS3+ is safe because you doing flash only which means you always get connection again.
If you fail for the first time you can redo it till success or simply find on forum suitable flash and write with programmer.
I failed downgrade many times in first try but second or third job done :)

On 1-series you can attempt it just like any other car and two different cars i could not restore after working with Abrites. They said the CAS was in "boot mode" and we lost all communication. Blamed both cars lol.

I've had plenty of times where it took 2 tries but there are definitely cars that will not take after multiple attempts. See 1 series and x3.

[qwojtus]

Good explanation by Abrites.
The best do it on bench.
Did you fix this CAS then?

[indienick]

Good explanation by Abrites.
The best do it on bench.
Did you fix this CAS then?

Nope. I'm not expert like you guys. Abrites said to send me dump and instead I just ordered new CAS and decide never again I will do ISTA45 downgrade.

[bearheroes]

Please tell me how did you put msd812 ecu in virgin state because i want to learn that please!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[decno1]

Hi to all! Today I get one E90 2009 with CAS3+ all key lost. engine ecu MSD812 with Tricore. I do it key for this with FVDI tag key toll, but first you need to downgrade the CAS with WinKfp to original ZB number witch is write on CAS . after that you read the eprom memory from CAS with r260 or r270 , you isert to FVDI tag key tool , prepare the new dump with the new key then write back to CAS (you can use secondhand key). after this you can give ignition to the car. it is possible to can not synchronize CAS with DDE , in that case you need to downgrade the ECU to or put the ecu in virgin state after that use NCEXPERT to coding the ECU.

Some facts:
- You cannot downgrade CAS to a lower part number by any tool
- You cannot use a second hand key (locked key)
- You cannot make MSX8X virgin
- You don't need to sync with DME/DDE has SK (long ISN)

[bearheroes]

CAS anybody can downgrade if have ICOM interface , WinKfp and SP date e89, the key what I learned it was from e90 2007 PCF7942 SECOND HAND KEY!!!!! (the TAG KEY TOOL write key data in CAS dump)
I NEVER SAY I PUT MSD812 in virgin state!!!!!!! IS IMPOSIBILE YET.....I read SK from ecu with BMW EXPLORER but in My post I write DDE (diesel engine) if somebody have diesel then is easy

So is it possible to put other ECUs with 128 bit isn to virgin state?


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[PremierD]

Tommy Cooper .... or Paul Daniels can do it mate .............. :roflmao:

[Mario3]

Some facts:
- You cannot downgrade CAS to a lower part number by any tool
- You cannot use a second hand key (locked key)
- You cannot make MSX8X virgin
- You don't need to sync with DME/DDE has SK (long ISN)

- You cannot use a second hand key (locked key)

You mean only for Cas3+ or overall for all Cas

[bearheroes]

You can use key with pcf7942 inside, which due to its bug is possible to get data...in order to use it in cas3+ you need data to decrypt cas...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[seanjj]

Hey you need read epprom(4k) only with CAN or BDM With AK300+. And load bin file to TM-100 or Tango, dont need ISN

[EGIS1978]

Hello friends, i have allso big problem, got car e70 from USA with no keys, cant program any key i have hitag2 v3.1, is it possible to make key from cas dump ? how to preaparate key and is it necesary?

[drugowaz]

I can help you. If need write pm

[Sidemark]

Hello friends, i have allso big problem, got car e70 from USA with no keys, cant program any key i have hitag2 v3.1, is it possible to make key from cas dump ? how to preaparate key and is it necesary?
VIN ?

[hotsd101]

all this talk about risk and fancy tools for cas downgrade is very crazy.

simply use winkfp, read uif history and flash original matching zbnr hw version or the zb from before the upgrade, they will all be in the log file.

dont bother with backups, ive killed 20 different cas+ modules by simply fogetting to check or uncheck uif write after data/programming. some modules like it, some dont.
if you brick it, play with options and flash again, use decent cable like (bimmergeeks which has proper firmware) and decent charger, certainly 70 amps is overkill.

cas module should be flashed with ignition off all together.

if you cant find version number to match HW, find latest kmm_ATSH file and use it. i dont want to paste 500k lines here ;)

its a basic and procedure and absolutely not necessary to use any aftermaket tools.

[doctore]

just like that simply :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[hotsd101]

yep, simple as that. anyone tell you otherise, doesnt have a clue.
if after winkfp downgrade, read data, make key, car wont start, simply upgrade cas to version it was before downgrade.
easy as that.

all this myth about issues downgrade cas is myth made by the same people which make these aftermarket unnecessary tools.

[hotsd101]

even better, il make some videos, i have every possible cas number so i can deliberately upgrade them all to latest 60.1 ista, show and then downgrade.
lets do that and put an end to this false nonsense.

il do say 5 different ones. get me a list of numbers and i will do the video.

[PixelsFixed]

Will that winkfp downgrade work on a BMW 320i 2010 CAS3+ version 9389115 - seems to be encrypted - all keys lost?

BMW Multitool won't read the CAS. Fails at security authorisation.
CGDI BMW doesn't support it.
My R270 won't read it.

[hotsd101]

please see original post i made, it does not come more straight forward than that.

the simple, the complicated and the long answer are all the same. yes.

bmw dont encrypt themself out of there own software, not that would be kinda stupid.

winkfp generates the seed key to grant itself authority, the aftermarket junk is absolutely not necessary nor mostly capable. the tools that do work, have reverse engineered winkfp's seed key generation and basiclly ripped off bmw's software to make there own tools and do the same thing. without the exact scenario i just explained it would be impossible to work the keys out, period. enough said about keys.

the point is, process is dead simple

[hotsd101]

another user asked good question about cas module:

IstaP - dont ever try program cas with it unless you have original bmw. You most definately cannot downgrade cas with ista p as it simply does not give you version options. Basic upgrade, It can be done but is very risky, here is why.

reason simple - with aftermarket ista releases, while they work great and is fantastic people have made it work, cas programming requires key out of ignition to meet ecu pre programming conditions. when you remove key 90% of the time depending on vehicle config and interfact connection + device, the car will go to sleep mode and the programming will fail. if ista p fails while flashing cas, no problem at all for winkfp to identify and fix, easy done. if aftermarket tool failed, winkfp fix is 50/50 even with force programming expert mode. winkfp will always recover failed programming sessios provided that they failed with a genuine tool to begin with. there isnt a module or hardware i have not bricked and recovered many times over.