Smart 451 CDI

[Mjolinor]

Having gearbox problems on a CDI Smart 2009. The car was like this when I bought it so I have no idea if bits have been swapped or messed with before I got it. For sure I can say that there was a new clutch in the car and a new clutch actuator had been fitted. I have had the gearbox apart and there is nothing wrong with it and to me I would say that it has in no way ever done 110,000 miles, it really was like new inside.

Anyway, knowing that there is probably a gearbox ECU update available I decided to try to find it and stick it on there using Star. I get a message telling me that "The control unit is not documented for this vehicle" which seems like a pretty major stumbling block. I have no idea whether this ECU si correct for the car or if someone has stuck the wrong one in. CDI and petrol versions do have different ratios so relationship between engine revs and gearbox output shaft sensor should be known and if someone has stuck a petrol gearbox ECU in with a CDI gearbox or vice versa then I am likely to have errors related to the gearbox as the sensors will not relate correctly to each other.

Attached is a picture from Star showing the messages. Can anyone shed any light on these messages, possible solutions and causes.

Cheers

409838

[gmb45]

fiitc........

[Meat-Head]

Can you check vin number in ecu matches car

[audiomeca]

the TCU is not from this car

but you can change internal software in TCU and car run,

try other TCU

[Mjolinor]

It is the right ECU. Apparently that message is normal if there is no update. Googling it I found lots of pictures of the same screen with the same message.

This doesn't help me. :) Still stuck with a faulty gearbox even though I ripped it apart and couldn't see owt wrong.

[audiomeca]

It is the right ECU. Apparently that message is normal if there is no update. Googling it I found lots of pictures of the same screen with the same message.

This doesn't help me. :) Still stuck with a faulty gearbox even though I ripped it apart and couldn't see owt wrong.


not , this ecu is not from a diesel car!!!, and not , when not new software available not xenry not display unit not match to car!!!

actual software for 451 tcu is a451xxx xxxx, software 011xxx is the first version have two updates available. last version is A4519024800,

regards

[audiomeca]

I put compatible TCU for this VIN

[Mjolinor]

OK. You are going to have to help me here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGNKwFG8--g

That video shows the same message (2 minutes in). There are other pictures on the net showing the same message when no update is available so I just assumed it is correct. If you are sure it is not correct then for sure you know more about it than I do so I would appreciate any help you can give me about how to fix it.

The problem is that I replaced the gearbox because the original gearbox was crunching when changing down from 3 to 2 and it would error and fail to engage 2 and form then on I would only have 1 3 or 5. I replaced with a second hand gearbox from ebay and that gearbox has no third gear that is reliable, sometimes it goes in third and stays there for a few seconds but again it starts flashing and locks third gear out.

I am pretty sure I have two mechanically faulty gearbox but if you can fit those symptoms to a TCU problem that would be wonderful if you know how to fix it.

[Mjolinor]

Can the one I have on the car be programmed by removing chips inside to make it suitable for the CDI. If not then will this work OK?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122107449315?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Does it need coding to the car?

[audiomeca]

need actual gearbox p/n, you are sure that is ok for cdi car?

need a right gearbox ,right tcu model an right tcu software

[audiomeca]

Can the one I have on the car be programmed by removing chips inside to make it suitable for the CDI. If not then will this work OK?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122107449315?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Does it need coding to the car?

this unit is for euro 5 car your car is euro 4!!!!, need one tcu from the list in my photo!!!

not need code one used unit, only need teach gearbox and cluntch

[Mjolinor]

That ebay link is the same as one in your list, A001 545 69 16 I hope it's right because I bought it. :)

[Mjolinor]

I am pretty sure that both the boxes I have are CDI. The petrol box will not fit, you can see in these two links that the engline mounting bolts on the gearbox are in different places and the bell housing is a different shape.

CDI
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/l2IAAOSwXeJYG3sJ/s-l1600.jpg

Petrol
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/nfIAAOSwux5YLbmL/s-l1600.jpg

[audiomeca]

That ebay link is the same as one in your list, A001 545 69 16 I hope it's right because I bought it. :)

yes this is ok .seller say 2011 car but is not 2011, the p/n is ok

can buy

[audiomeca]

I am pretty sure that both the boxes I have are CDI. The petrol box will not fit, you can see in these two links that the engline mounting bolts on the gearbox are in different places and the bell housing is a different shape.

CDI
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/l2IAAOSwXeJYG3sJ/s-l1600.jpg

Petrol
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/nfIAAOSwux5YLbmL/s-l1600.jpg

check the gearbox p/n an put here

[Mjolinor]

So I bought the TCU as above and replaced mine. Same fault. Mine is number A 001 545 60 16 so it was the right one anyway going off the list above. :(

Next? This car is getting to me now. Star files from new TCU.

412501

412502

[Bllinda]

My EPC 09/2015 according to VIN can not find this block xxx5454032

[Mjolinor]

My EPC 09/2015 according to VIN can not find this block xxx5454032

I don't understand that?

Are you saying that the number 451545032 is not valid so maybe I have a CAN bus collision or fault on the CAN bus? This is about the only thing I can think of now.

[audiomeca]

friend 9.2014 xentry not flash this unit offline, not have the ASAM FILE , last version with the right ASAM file is 3.2014 XENTY

If not put all information in the first post no can help to you!!! not need new TCU if your TCU is my list

but why need flash? actual software from this unit is ok for start the car

put the TCU error scan to try solve

the car start?, when put ignition (+15) in dash can see N neutral gearbox?

best regards

[Mjolinor]

I bought the car with the gearbox fault such that it would behave normally when you set off and up through the box OK. On changing down the gears all was good until it did the 3 > 2 change. At that time it errored trying to go into second and would lock out 2 and 4. You could drive the car provided you could do all that you needed with 1, 3 and 5. The gear number and spanners would flash at that time and it stayed that way until you left it turned off for a bit and then it was all OK again. Clearing the fault codes also makes it OK again.

I decided the box was faulty and bought a second hand one. Once fitted there is had a problem with 3rd gear. It would go in but it would appear to be letting the clutch in and out and the throttle off and on and then start flashing the gear indicator and spanners and 3rd gear was locked out. 1, 2, 4 and 5 and reverse all work normally. Again if it was left off for a few minutes it would go OK again.

I dismantled my gearbox and found nothing wrong with it, reassembled and put it back in the car, same fault as it had originally. I removed the loom from TCU to gearbox and thoroughly checked all the wires and connectors, no problems. I have now replaced the TCU and it is the same. I have removed and replaced the SAM and checked all the plugs, all is good.

I have not had the dash out at all.

Does anyone have any suggestions. Star is telling me to replace the gearbox.

[Bllinda]

Check it out here .... (http://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/showthread.php/204153-Smart-Gearbox-mod) maybe any thoughts that arise

[audiomeca]

have teach gearbox with xentry?

can put here, the gearbox p/n(model from smart) and tcu p/n software write in tcu?

if all is ok second gearbox is fault!!

[Mjolinor]

Yes I have taught it with Xentry lots of times. I have got another gear motor unit and will try that. I will post the numbers off the gearbox when I have them.

[FxShaw]

Printed some info..hope it helps.

[clusters]

Text quality is not the best, this program don't like Windo$e 8.1 and ie11 :mad:

Computer data lines circuit.

[FxShaw]

Here ya go...

[Mjolinor]

Can anyone tell me file names, dates, versions for the gearbox updates and if my original ECU has them or needs one. Where to get it would help too if it does need one.

I have now replaced the gearbox, ECU and gear change module along with removing the wiring loom and checking out all plugs, wires etc. and I am still getting invalid gearbox data messages, there is nothing else to replace. I am wondering if the clutch is sticking on the splines as the original update was to give the box slightly longer to allow the gear change and they released a Teflon coated clutch spline on the later clutches to also help. This seems to have only been for the "no reverse" problem, I can't find any hits at all for this problem I have and believe me, I have tried. Nearly three months I have been trying to sort this out.

[Mjolinor]

The numbers on the replacement gearbox are:

4520013223 45137005001663209 A4513700501 11/10

I believe this to be a 2010 gearbox but I cannot find anything to say it is different for a 2009 like my car. I know that mine is one of the last without a DPF and the 2010 will have had a DPF but as far as I can find out the box and gearbox computer are the same whether a DPF is fitted or not.

I would like someone to tell me for sure though.

[smokey08]

Is the clutch actuator preloaded correctly?

[Mjolinor]

Yes, two of them several dozen times :)

[audiomeca]

friend

wrong gearbox model!!!!

need original gearbox model to match ratio on TCU, or reflash TCU , 54 hp cdi 2010 model have diferent gearbox ratio

regards

[Mjolinor]

Can you tell me how you know this? Evilution only lists one set of ratios for the CDI and I cannot find anyting saying otherwise.

[Mjolinor]

It seems that third and fourth have modified gear ratios in 2010. This will absolutely explain the fault. It is fine in 1 and 2 but when it changes to thrid it ~~~~s up.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/07/23/smart-upgrades-2010-fortwo-with-more-powerful-diesel-hands-free/

[Mjolinor]

Will this one do for my 2009?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192017762996?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Seems to be dated feb 2010 but I don't know when the changes took place.

From the pics the numbers are
45137005015000640607
a4513700501
XXXXXXXXX0013223 02/10

The label is damaged so I can't make out all the numbers.

[audiomeca]

evilution not is the biblie....20% is not ok in this web

[audiomeca]

ebay ,is identical that have fitted!!! you need A 451 370 01 01

[Mjolinor]

What about a TCU to match the gearbox. Will that work?

Is it possible to programme the TCU to match the gearbox?

[Mjolinor]

Well much googling and searching and I cannot find a gearbox with that number at sensible money.

Best hope now is to modify my TCU or find oen that will work.

Give me some good news please. :)

[audiomeca]

yes can reflash to match , but need a right xentry install to reflash, I not sure if your xentry can flash ok

I try find the right software for you

wait repply

[Mjolinor]

If you can do that it would be excellent. I think my Xentry should be OK to do it and I also have a couple of mates with Xentry but if all else fails I can add an OBD plug and power supply to the TCU and post it away to be done.

[Mjolinor]

Is any of these the one I need?


jd@JD120 ~/Downloads/DAS/from_flash_DVD/1/TCU_451 $ ls -l
total 7328
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 440972 Oct 7 2011 0114486810_001.CFF
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 441016 Oct 7 2011 0114486910_001.CFF
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 440980 Oct 7 2011 0134480110_001.CFF
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 441258 Oct 7 2011 0134480210_001.CFF
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 440972 Oct 7 2011 0134480310_001.cff
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 453012 Oct 7 2011 0134480410_001.cff
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 441236 Oct 7 2011 0134480510_001.cff
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 436506 Oct 7 2011 0134481510_001.CFF
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 436506 Oct 7 2011 0134481610_001.CFF
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 436488 Oct 7 2011 0134481710_001.CFF
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 436746 Oct 7 2011 0134481810_001.CFF
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 428630 Oct 7 2011 4514468195_001.CFF
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 439036 Oct 7 2011 4519022400_001.cff
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 439052 Oct 7 2011 4519022500_001.cff
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 439038 Oct 7 2011 4519022600_001.cff
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 439292 Oct 7 2011 4519022700_001.cff
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 441018 Oct 7 2011 4519025600_001.CFF
jd@JD120 ~/Downloads/DAS/from_flash_DVD/1/TCU_451 $

[Mjolinor]

I have just been under the car and hte original gearbox is A4513700101. Exactly as you said it should be.

So now I htink it is all confirmed. Original gearbox faulty, replacement gearbox is the wrong one so I now await the solution involving reprogramming the TCU.

[audiomeca]

hello

very dificult , I try but not sure 100% if match, the problem is the TCU model is not euro 5 and not can check online the right software for one euro 5 car with this TCU

I think that need 4519024700_001.CFF, but need flash with vediamo, xentry not can flash one file that not match to ecu in car

[audiomeca]

Is any of these the one I need?


jd@JD120 ~/Downloads/DAS/from_flash_DVD/1/TCU_451 $ ls -l
total 7328
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 440972 Oct 7 2011 0114486810_001.CFF
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 441016 Oct 7 2011 0114486910_001.CFF
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 440980 Oct 7 2011 0134480110_001.CFF
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 441258 Oct 7 2011 0134480210_001.CFF
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 440972 Oct 7 2011 0134480310_001.cff
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 453012 Oct 7 2011 0134480410_001.cff
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 441236 Oct 7 2011 0134480510_001.cff
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 436506 Oct 7 2011 0134481510_001.CFF
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 436506 Oct 7 2011 0134481610_001.CFF
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 436488 Oct 7 2011 0134481710_001.CFF
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 436746 Oct 7 2011 0134481810_001.CFF
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 428630 Oct 7 2011 4514468195_001.CFF
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 439036 Oct 7 2011 4519022400_001.cff
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 439052 Oct 7 2011 4519022500_001.cff
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 439038 Oct 7 2011 4519022600_001.cff
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 439292 Oct 7 2011 4519022700_001.cff
-r--r--r-- 1 jd jd 441018 Oct 7 2011 4519025600_001.CFF
jd@JD120 ~/Downloads/DAS/from_flash_DVD/1/TCU_451 $


this is a old cff version from old xentry, check cff files in your sdflash folder in your 9.2014 xentry laptop!!! in this folder have the last smart 451 tcu available versions

best regards

[Mjolinor]

OK, I found the file. Can I not edit


Can I not edit the other files for example 451.etne, 451.etnh, 451.etns in order to make star think that it is the correct update?

What is Vediamo. Remember this is my car, I don't do this sort of thing for a living so am not familiar with car electronic tools so much.

[Mjolinor]

Can you give me a list of TCU to go with the gearbox. Like the last list you gave me for my car TCU numbers please.

I assume that changing the TCU for a later euro5 model will work.

[audiomeca]

Can you give me a list of TCU to go with the gearbox. Like the last list you gave me for my car TCU numbers please.

I assume that changing the TCU for a later euro5 model will work.

not friend smart server not have this combination, not can check the software for one not posible fitted ecu, xentry offline or online not can code the old tcu for new gearbox and not can code new euro 5 tcu for one euro 4 car

only can make with vediamo by obd with original cff files

vediamo is a tool that mercedes enginiers use in factory (actual softwares is DTS monaco) but for old cars vediamo is ok.

buy one used tcu from the list and already have a good software fitted in memory for euro 5 diesel gearbox

[Mjolinor]

I have a spare TCU but I do not know anyone that has the software or that can do it.

[audiomeca]

install in the car, and with xentry check software version

but if not have one refence from my last picture, not have euro 5 gearbox diesel software and not match with your gearbox

or install vediamo, or buy one used tcu from one euro 5 diesel car

not more options

regards

[Mjolinor]

I am well confused by all this.

The spare TCU I have is A 001 545 69 16 so this TCU is good for both gearboxes depending on the software that is installed on the box.

The firmware is shown in the picture.

[volismb]

I am well confused by all this.

The spare TCU I have is A 001 545 69 16 so this TCU is good for both gearboxes depending on the software that is installed on the box.

The firmware is shown in the picture.

It looks like a complicated problem. One of the best people for solving complicated problems with SMART cars is "wsc".
I had him install a used TCU a few weeks ago, but I am not sure what is the exact procedure for doing this.

[audiomeca]

this is not complicated is very esasy with the right tools


one tcu can run in euro 4 or euro 5 cars , not all can, but software need match the ratio gearbox for run ok very simple


the problem is you use not original tools not all functions are available, and other not posible.

[audiomeca]

what not understem?

you have a fault xentry install for use offline mode

software in the tcu is very old ,is first version from 2008 and have two new version, and this is for euro 4 gearbox

not can update with your fault xentry install, and actual software not match one euro 5 gearbox is for euro 4 gearbox car model

need put one gearbox euro 4 car model

or put one tcu with euro 5 car model

is easy

[Mjolinor]

Well I didn't understand that my Xentry was faulty for doing offline mode, no one has mentioned that at all.

I have TCU number A 001 545 69 16 so now I understand that this is euro4 and euro5 and has old software on, this was not clear to me.

I think I understand that the software on this TCU is too old to support euro4/euro5 or the software only supports euro4 and I have to update it to make it euro 5 or I have to update it to make it euro4 and euro5.

I think I understand that I cannot update it with Xentry and need Vediamo that I don't have in order to update it but I am not sure about that.

The TCU that I have goes with the gearbox that I have, both off the same car. If I try to update the TCU on my car I get a "not valid for VIN" message which to me seems sensible as the TCU and the gearbox are not correct for the VIN number.

Why do you think my Xentry is faulty?

[audiomeca]

xentry no can update , offline or online, in database from mercedes, your car is euro 4, and only posible reflash euro 4 software,and need fitted one aproved tcu unit for your vin

for this job by OBD only can make with vediamo or DTS monaco, you can flash the file that need


your xentry not have ASAM file for check the right software version for your vin, in the second photo in the udpate
" the vedoc data for model series 451 is not available" this is why your xentry not have correct ASAM file, 9.2014 not have this file

buy one gearbox euro 4 or buy one tcu from one euro 5 car diesel

or try with vediamo

not more solutions

best regards

[Mjolinor]

I already have the TCU number A001 545 69 16

Is this not the one I need?

This one came from the same car as the gearbox. Do I still need to programme it?

[audiomeca]

if not have euro 5 software not, need check the software version, if is from one car from 7/2010 have euro 5 if not have euro 4, and not run

are you sure that is from gearbox car?

put in the car, and read vin and version software with xentry and put here I say to you if is ok or not

[Mjolinor]

The attachments to the post eight before this one are from the A001 545 69 16

[audiomeca]

in post #8 not have any about your ecu.

if refer to #16 post, not display vin in tcu ecu, only vin from your car, tcu used have other vin write, put here, and software version, is the first option in tcu menu, display ecu information

need vin from the second used tcu and I say if is euro 4 or euro 5, but if fit and not run... already have the repply

Not understerm , this is very simple job and very easy to solve

wait for this dates for end this problem

regards

[Mjolinor]

I mean post #50

I will need to replace the TCU in the car. It will take me a few days as I am not where the car is and the garage is closed for Christmas.

The replacement TCU works OK in my car but the gearbox that was in is the original gearbox with the fault. I have not tried the TCU with its own gearbox in my car.

[FxShaw]

A easy way to fix it is to light it on fire and push it off a bridge :biggrin:

[Mjolinor]

Here are some screen shots from the sprintshift module (TCU), also VIN from the SAM and the engine ECU.

[audiomeca]

the dates from this tcu is the original tcu or the new used tcu already brought with actual gearbox fitted?

[Mjolinor]

There are four pictures.
The first is the info for the TCU that I bought from teh guy I bought the gearbox from.
The second shows the VIN of the TCU
The third shows the VIN of the car's SAM
The fourth shows the VIN of the cars engine ECU

The gearbox currently in the car is the original from the car, not the replacement.

[audiomeca]

the tcu is not from euro 5 car!!!, this tcu software not match with new replacement gearbox from euro 5 car!!!!

[Mjolinor]

OK, so I now have to either find a TCU with newer software on or somehow get this TCU blown with later software. Is that correct.

Is there anyone that has this Vediamo software or knows where I can get it?

[FxShaw]

Here you go.... Hands you the matches and gas :biggrin:

[Mjolinor]

So I got Vediamo and installed it. I use < version 5 as I only have a C3 mux.

There is very little info out there about this software and I have no idea what to do next ro where to get the files.

Will someone enlighten me please.

[martin1234]

how did you sort it in the end ,thank you