EDC16 N75 CALIBRATION FOR 1756 VK ON 1.9 TDI PD

[vwstuff]

i'm close to finish ma map and I find my car laggy .
Boost build up is slow especially in case of acceleration from steady driving condition ( 2000-3000rpm ) up to the redline (5000 rpm).
I played with DW with no succes.
I wonder if my N75 maps are right for a 1756vk on a PD 1.9 TDI ?!

[vwstuff]

I'm alone on this planet ?

[Labed2007]

I'm alone on this planet ?

Yes, i can help you :)
Describe the car - power, mods etc....
I can do it in 5 minutes...

DW is for fuel only....
You have to start the N75 especially as a turbo after regeneration or slightly worn out.
Exhaust and intake seals ok? Turbo gaskets ok?

TEST MY FILE AND REPORT- i gently edit N75 map at 1900-3000 rpm.

[vwstuff]

Cool thanks for you file will test it asap and report . In fact dpf is gone .... for a long time
5 min !! uou only manage with the two N75 limiters ??
For my car : arl engine with pd 130 injectors free flow exhaust gtb1756 vk vaccum converted and small head work

[vwstuff]

Cool thanks for you file will test it asap and report . In fact dpf is gone .... for a long time
5 min !! uou only manage with the two N75 limiters ??
For my car : arl engine with pd 130 injectors free flow exhaust gtb1756 vk vaccum converted and small head work

Yet I only need N75 calibration

[DiegoStud]

19118A, 1EA00E are your main N75 maps. Any reason you have not changed the IQ axes?
You have lag but there's a trough in the map around 32mg which you will pass through every time you are trying to spool the turbo.

192266, 1EB0EA Main Boost maps. You have reduced requested boost at lower RPM- have you determined what the boost threshold is? Reducing request will inherently reduce P component response.
1743rpm 35mg- 1770 request, 70mg- 1714- why is requested boost dropping?

1936EO, 1EC564 N75 Max Limiters. If you are worrying about surge consider why you have increased these so PID can fully close the vanes?

19190C- you made a hash of copy and paste. Good job the car doesn't normally run that map.

PS- BLS engine originally? The stock injectors are tiny hence the SOI maps being so advanced at full load. Use the PD130 SOIs and it might save your cylinder head

[vwstuff]

Thanks Diego think you for your feedback and time .
I know my job is not perfect ... Will check...

[vwstuff]

right know I'm looking for PD 130 soi values ...

[vwstuff]

right know I'm looking for PD 130 soi values ...
DiegoStud is requested ..

[vwstuff]

19118A , 1EA00E do you change IQ axes to the max IQ ?

192266, 1EB0EA boost threshold not tested yet what kind of values can I use as a starting point ?

1936EO, 1EC564 N75 will copy stock values

19190C will copy stock values

PD130 SOI values : i need help

[vwstuff]

Is 19118A axis right now ??663413

[vwstuff]

DiegoStud are you around ?

[DiegoStud]

Here's a start- assuming you are refering to AWX 520cc 1.9TDI injectors.
Not even touched the N75- you need to tune this first at some safe power/boost levels before increasing.

[vwstuff]

Thanks a lot Diego !!! Yes my in injector are AWX from pd 130

[vwstuff]

File updated I'm waiting for your feedback :peaceful:

[DiegoStud]

The only decent changes worth speaking of are the ones I've done.

1DACF8- you missed. It's worth doing for the sake of consistency though not really used.
18D0F2 and 1DAF62- the whole maps need changing. Compare with Main SOI maps. Are you comfortable with SOI at 19.1 at 2750rpm? Mind you, your car doesn't run Dynamic SOI anyway.

1DD912- why zero out 3 axis values? ECUs doesn't usually tend to appreciate things like that.

No useful feedback can be provided until you start making a decent tune.
If you are stuck look at files of cars that run GTB1756VK as stock. A good starting point for the turbo would be 2.7TDIs while accounting for changes in displacement. Or have a read around as your not the first to fit that turbo.
There are no 5 min tunes here.

[vwstuff]

I corrected all of my mistake accepted for SOI 13 :18D0F2 and 1DAF62 i'm stuck .

[vwstuff]

I corrected all of my mistake accepted for SOI 13 :18D0F2 and 1DAF62 i'm stuck . Is the best way to copy all soi to not exced theses values ?

[DiegoStud]

Yes copying whole map into them would work.

[vwstuff]

Ah do you mean all soi 9 values to soi 13 ?
Sorry about that

[DiegoStud]

Yes.

And it's not SOI 13- there is only SOI 0-9. What you call SOI 10-12 are SOI by gears 1-2, 3-4, 5-6, and SOI 13 is Dynamic SOI. All unnecessary for your needs.

[vwstuff]

I hope this is better ?

[vwstuff]

My bad if i understand well I need to change only SOI 10,11 and 12 and SOI 13 value have to not exced Main SOI maps values ?!!

[DiegoStud]

Yes that would work.

[vwstuff]

But this is right ?

[vwstuff]

I think i need a BIP map correction for injectors .
Corretion value for all of them is a bit big ?!

[vwstuff]

lOGS !
Both afr and egt are right for me .
Let me know what do you think for boost pressure and DURATION / SOI

[vwstuff]

AFR not perfect right I'm a bit to right from 1929 to 1974 my goal is more 1.0-1.1 what is the best way to correct it ?

[Labed2007]

lOGS !
Both afr and egt are right for me .
Let me know what do you think for boost pressure and DURATION / SOI

The car has unsatisfactory dynamics at low revolutions. You can see that you tried to save the situation by changing the drivers wish map. Compare other limiters with this map. It doesn't make any sense. You will get nothing but smoke. You can still play with the N75 map.

[vwstuff]

What do you mean by unsatisfactory dynamics at low revolutions ?

[vwstuff]

So i need to manage with the 2 main N75 maps ? ?

[vwstuff]

I Mean N75 : 19118A and 1EAOOE ??

[vwstuff]

just added all you N75 maps and DW at my last file for test :)

[vwstuff]

Let me kow if regeneration is off ?

[vwstuff]

It's not better at full load with boost control lose
On city driving turbo is more responsive at low speed but this not oem spool

[vwstuff]

The question is why my aiflow drop at 440 mg/str after 4305 rpm ??

[Labed2007]

The question is why my aiflow drop at 440 mg/str after 4305 rpm ??

I checked the logs, after changing the N75 map it's better. If the intake or exhaust has an air leak then after the repair it will be completely fine. If it's a problem with turbo, we won't do much more, because it will be overboost.

[Labed2007]

I done for you 2 files: first - with further map correction n75, and second - with further map correction n75 + dpf off.
Test and report. Make a LOG and upload.
Please dont forget to leave star and reputation if i help :)
Regards.

[vwstuff]

With you soft, max boost requested on log is below max boost ( 2650 mbar ) on soft !!!
This is not the case with my soft !!
The only move are : DW and N75
Some think is wrong / strange !

[vwstuff]

Log done just after test of your file with previous soft without DW and N75 mods
Boost is back at 2620 Mbars and boost specified values are the same like in the soft

[Labed2007]

That's good. That's good. My works with the N75 map gave the effect. What exactly is the engine (power, turbo, injectors) and car data? mMax boost is not exceeded by a significant value.

[vwstuff]

You decrease all N75 values this is for enhance efficiency based on your expérience or just for fun ?
If you wish to work on N75 efficiency I'm interrested to.
We can start with my last file update : smoke torque limiter lambda AFR correction and use your N75 MAPS ?

[jurebv]

from 1500-1700 increase n75 a bit
from 3800-4800 decrease n75 a bit

overshoot is normal on wot and this much overboost is nothing to worry about
looks pretty good ;)

[Labed2007]

You decrease all N75 values this is for enhance efficiency based on your expérience or just for fun ?
If you wish to work on N75 efficiency I'm interrested to.
We can start with my last file update : smoke torque limiter lambda AFR correction and use your N75 MAPS ?

Do you know how the N75 control works? To put it simply, I'll write the opposite of fuel maps. You need some knowledge and caution. Doing overboost or completely "sleep" turbo at low speed is not a problem. Now the N75 is working OK, I don't recommend it after my yesterday's mod.
You can't change the N75 map any more because there's going to be an overboost and another problem. The only thing left is fuel maps....

P.S. read the above post by jurebv user.

P.S.2 vwstuff - you have full box for private messages.
I'll make your car faster. But do you want a file with DPF OFF or ON?

[vwstuff]

Thanks a lot Labed2007 but dpf is already off this is a single switch

[Labed2007]

Thanks a lot Labed2007 but dpf is already off this is a single switch

test this and make a log.
Dont forget star and rep :)

[vwstuff]

Sorry I work only with my file step by step on N75 optimization

[Labed2007]

Sorry I work only with my file step by step on N75 optimization

I don't understand....

[jurebv]

read my previous post
from 1500-1700 increase n75 a bit
from 3800-4800 decrease n75 a bit

[vwstuff]

+1
Otherwise , Do i need to work only on two mean N75 maps : 19118A and 1EA00E ????

[Labed2007]

+1
Otherwise , Do i need to work only on two mean N75 maps : 19118A and 1EA00E ????

Yes, n75 have no.1 map for manual transmission and no.2 map for automatic transmission.

[vwstuff]

Let me know what do you think regarding my boost curve !!
The main problem is my max egt ... and my boost is still at 2750 mbars !!
What is the best way : ingrease boost to 2850 mbars to archive both my egt ( below 800 °C ) and afr goal ( 1.2-1.3 ) or lower durations ??
Is 2850 mbars not to much for gtb1756 vk efficiency and reliability ??

[vwstuff]

I attached my last file work in process......

[DiegoStud]

The reversions in the duty cycle direction show your N75 have a little work especially between 2200 and 2750rpm just to stabilise the boost better. In doing so it may reduce the osccilations that occur later.
Be careful of increasing demand too much too early. Looking fine otherwise.

Yes increasing lambda would reduce EGTs but neither do I think 1.3 lambda is a realistic target without reaching PCP limits.
Assuming fairly low pressure drop through your intake system, 2850mbar from 3500-4750rpm would correspond to around 170000rpm and mean a compressor tip speed of 498m/s. ~76% efficiency. The compressor would be happy with that.
However the issues are on the turbine side as you are now getting to the limit of your injectors. EOI currently around 10-12ATDC? This causes high EGT.

Advancing SOI would improve but at these levels of boost and IQ there isn't much room to maneuvre before hitting peak pressure limits- in otherwords reduce IQ.

Will have a proper look at the file later.

[vwstuff]

Again thanks a lot for your advices; will test at 2850 Mbars from 3500 to 4750 rpm to see the afr result and post

[DiegoStud]

Ok here goes:-

Your car is driving on nothing resembling your torque limiter. You are being limited by a number of issues. Which is a good thing as if it wasn't you would be running aroung 13.5-14:1.

Duration maps are limiting to 75mg. You could maybe get a little more out.
Make some calculations- how much IQ are you requesting? Therefore how much air do you need to burn efficiently? Therefore how much boost do you need? Is this level of boost realistic? Rinse and repeat.

In view of the above the following issues are practically moot:
Nm to IQ is limiting requested torque to a max of 444NM.
Smoke MAP is limiting from 3000rpm onwards.

[vwstuff]

Will correct torque and all of these issues...
I notice my air flow fall down at 444 what is the problem ??
Also according to vcds my max IQ is 70 mg : another limiter ??

[vwstuff]

Torque limiter modified Is that right now ?

[DiegoStud]

Not had a proper look but check your diagnostic limiters. I doubt MAF is reading 1275 exactly as well.

Torque Limiter- It's almost by definition that full load should be determined by Torque Limiter. If anything else is limiting you, then you no longer have exact control and soon lose idea of what is going on.

As I've already said, requesting anything above 75mg is a waste of time at this point as you are limited by duration maps.

I'll ignore the values below 2250 as you will be limited by smoke limiter (this is normal especially with running larger turbo). Just as well, as with those values you would be running around 13:1.
Here's an estimate of AFR for you. I've taken the liberty of plotting values that would equate to 17:1 or the 1.2 lamdba you wish to run.
666383

I'll let you decide if it's right or not

[vwstuff]

My curves are nice ....:)
Regarding durations you inject up to 81.4@2000 rpm , is the best way to extropolate all my duration maps values and axis up to 80 mg for Maps 0 to 3 ?
I'm in the dark !!

[vwstuff]

And I forgot what is the safe max duration for pd 130 injectors ?
I wonder what is your final EGT with your afr ?

[DiegoStud]

Sorry I should have clarified what you are seeing.
No you are requesting 81.4 at 2000-
Rows 1 and 2 are your torque limiter and conversion to IQ using your Nm to IQ map
Rows 3 and 4 are a suggested torque limiter and conversion to IQ
Last two rows are AFR calculated from IQ values above- top is yours, bottom is mine

[vwstuff]

Ok thanks for these details so If I understand IQ is a calculated theoric value based on this :

TQ = (IQ * 4 * Cyl. Number) / 4 * correction factor

??

[DiegoStud]

And I forgot what is the safe max duration for pd 130 injectors ?

No such thing. One man says 35 degrees another says 50. If you can effectively burn it, it's safe.

Duration is limited by the constraints I have already told you- Late EOI= high EGT, early SOI= high PCP.
Generally, EOI later than 15ATDC becomes unacceptable due to diminishing returns of power compared to EGT.
To compensate people advance SOI- however without an in-cylinder pressure sensor you can only estimate or base off other people's experience. This is how people lift cylinder heads.

Once you can no longer increase IQ due to these contraints you have reached your maximum duration.

You are having difficulties now with high EGT- now you know how near the limit is.

[jurebv]

Ok thanks for these details so If I understand IQ is a calculated theoric value based on this :

TQ = (IQ * 4 * Cyl. Number) / 4 * correction factor

??

In diesel cars ,Roughly Nm = iq * (number of cylinders * 1.5)

But of course it varies with engine efficiency

Br

[vwstuff]

Thank mate any idea regarding my MAF issue and diagnostic limiters ??

[vwstuff]

Nobody use smoke limitation via Lambda sensor ?

[jurebv]

Correct me if im wrong but 1.9 pd does not have physical lambda sensor , so its only calculated value

[vwstuff]

bls engine with lambda sensor from stock .
Engine swaped ARL on board now.
It's why I want to use MAF and 02 sensor feedback but at this time i can't use it, when smoke limiter via lambda is on , I got like a hard fuel cut close to 4000 rpm .
I notice at this level of rpm MAF value are wrong ( from 1250 down to 900) maybe this is do to a limiter which causes this issue ??

[vwstuff]

I wonder if my egr is removed properly I doute

[diogo130]

Arquivo atualizado. Aguardo seu feedback:peaceful:


Good evening friend, could you send the pass? to get some ideas on the turbo maps? Hug