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View Full Version : VW T5 2.5 TDI AXE engine replaced by 2.5 TDI BPC engine - Map mixing



cocktailyogi
12th November, 2019, 08:22 PM
Hi guys,

on my car somebody has replaced a AXE engine (2,5 TDI 174PS no DPF,) by a BPC (2,5 TDI 174PS with DPF from factory) .
The mechanical setup has been done long time ago but car does not run good and I have figured out, that the ECU-Softwarejob was bad. I did a lot of repairs and now I want to make my own ECU-Mapping for this setup. NO TUNING, only Stock-Performance.

In short this is the setup:
BPC-engine Block with AXE-wiring harness
pneumatic system from AXE
EGR from AXE, but disabled
Injectors from BPC (different from AXE !)
Turbo from BPC
ECU and Software from AXE
No DPF

I have studied the AXE File (070906016AP, EDC16U1) and also had a look at the BPC-Flash (070997016L, EDC16U31).
My conclusion ist that the engine bascially is still an AXE with BPC Turbo and BPC Injectors.

So my plan is to use the AXE-Software and to take over the following maps from BPC to get it running good:
for changed injectors: SOI-Maps (10) and Duration-Maps (6)
for Turbo: N75, Boost-Map, Boost-Limiter, SVBL, "N75 max. allowed set value" and PID-Settings (I don't now where they are stored. Behind boost-map?)

What do you think?

Kind Regards, Yogi

DiegoStud
12th November, 2019, 10:42 PM
Yep sounds like a plan. Upload both your files.

I don't know what the difference is between the injectors but it may require BIP maps transfering also.
N75 may overboost as now running without DPF. Yes the main turbo PID after setpoint maps but before N75 Max. (If it's the same file as the other thread: ECD56- D, ECE4A- I, ECF3E- P)

Edit: think I've been looking at a different file. Address might not be right. Look for 3 10x10 sort of sized maps there. Can't miss them

cocktailyogi
13th November, 2019, 08:22 AM
Thx for your support. I appreciate it really. People like you help me understanding what is going on in the enignes. :-)

I have attached the files.

Question 1:
I thought BIP and SOI is the same? Am I wrong?
BIP = Beginning of Injection Period
SOI = Start of injection

So if there is a difference I need help finding this BIP map(s)
edit:
I have googled a little bit and found some BIP-related stuff/maps. But I still do not understand what the differnce between BIP and SOI is.
in AXE file I found:
BIP stuff: 10x1 at D7D7C ???
BIP map ?: 8x10 at D7DBE ???

In BPC file I found:
BIP stuff: 10x1 at 1CD4B4 ???
BIP map ?: 10x10 at 1CD5C2 ???

Question 2:
There are many people removing factory-DPF and switching it off via software. Do they have overboosting issues or do they correct N75 Dutycycle as well?

Thx for your great support.

Yogi

cocktailyogi
13th November, 2019, 08:50 AM
Okay,

here comes Question 3:
(I am numbering it because otherwise we would loose track)

I think I have found PID maps in 070906016AP (AXE) at: ECD80, ECE74 and ECF68 in 9x10
I have found PID maps in 070997016L (BPC) at: 1EDA1E, 1EDB12 and 1EDC06 in 10x10

They really differ in Axis, scaling and content. So i guess it is important to take over the right set of maps.

map set in AXE is 9x10 and has other axis scaling, maps in BPC are 10x10 like you mentioned. I can handle that with the different map formats.
But what is P I and D?
What are the Axis units?

Kind Regards,
Yogi

DiegoStud
13th November, 2019, 01:25 PM
Wow that's a lot to get through. Here goes as simply as I can:

Question 1: No they are different. Essentially SOI is the command to activate the injector solenoid to begin injection. BIP is when the solenoid actually closes. As the response time can vary between different injectors this function accounts for those changes to ensure accurate injection timing.

Here are the main maps:
AXE-
D7D7C- 10x1 BIP Base map. Axis- mV- Factor 20.314761. Map values in uS factor 1.
D7DBE- BIP SOI correction factor. X axis degrees- 0.023437. Y axis RPM. Map Values- 0.000244
D7D5A- 6x1 BIP Fuel Temp Correction Factor- Axis in Temperature oC. Map Values- 0.000244

BPC-
1CD4B4- 10x1 BIP base map
1CD492- 6x1- BIP fuel temp
1CD5C2- 10x10- BIP SOI Corr

Question 2: Yes they likely have overboost but everyone's happy. Same applies for EGR off. Log your van afterwards and see. Depends how good a job you want to do.

Question 3: Map addresses are correct. You have a choice: Keep the axis the same and interpolate map data, or paste the whole maps across including axis data (you see how first two digits of maps before the axes are 00010 00009?- change to 00010 00010. It tells the ECU the size of map. The space after each map is unused so you are fine to increase the sizes from 10x9 to 10x10)
Axis in all are: X axis- IQ 0.01. Y axis RPM.
P- Proportional, I- Integral, D- Derivative. Method for regulating boost control on top of N75 which serves as pre-control. Using these three factors the ECU tries to reduce the difference between Desired boost and actual. That's a simple answer anyway.
There are other maps that govern PID correction but see how you get on first.

cocktailyogi
13th November, 2019, 01:40 PM
Hey, good and very informative answer.

Question 2 (overboost?):
On this setup I am not using DPF and EGR is off, as well. Disabled via setting Hystersis Maps 2 and 5 to zero.
And I always want to do the jobs as best as possible :-) In this case it has to be better than I can at the moment. I am not sure how to deal with the overboosting issue.
What is yout recommendation? Go with new Turbo/N75 and PID maps from BPC or stay with old ones from AXE?

Qustion 3 (PID maps):
thx for explanation. I am aware of PID regulators. I am interested in the order if the 3 maps (P, I, D) in the files. From other post I have understodd, that it is something like D, P, I or D,I,P. I am confused.

Yogi

DiegoStud
13th November, 2019, 01:51 PM
Overboost- use BPC maps. BPC turbo is much nicer than AXE. See how you get on it might be fine.

PID- order is D I P

RBTuning
13th November, 2019, 02:39 PM
I have adjusted the start of injection and the duration to original values.
you can try this software.

LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE if you liked this post

cocktailyogi
13th November, 2019, 05:17 PM
I have adjusted the start of injection and the duration to original values.
you can try this software.

LIKE AND SUBSCRIBE if you liked this post

Hi, thx for that offer. What exactly do you mean by "adjusted to original" ?
It seems to be a BPC file. I already have access to the stock-file of BPC-engine.

cocktailyogi
13th November, 2019, 08:52 PM
Hi, I have done all the modifications to the maps. Interpolating some values was no problem.

By accident I saw another map. I am not sure, what it is doing, but values also seem to be crankshaft angles vs. temp and rpm, What is it?
Address is: E3D3E in AXE -file.

Yogi

cocktailyogi
13th November, 2019, 08:58 PM
Hi, I have done all the modifications to the maps. Interpolating some values was no problem.

I will test that file during the next days.
Yogi

DiegoStud
13th November, 2019, 09:44 PM
E3D3E- 11x14 InjCrv_phiMIMax_MAP- Max SOI Limiter

cocktailyogi
13th November, 2019, 09:55 PM
E3D3E- 11x14 InjCrv_phiMIMax_MAP- Max SOI Limiter

Sorry for that. I just saw, you gave me the address before.... By accident I had this map-address twice in my software but one was labelled as "unknown".
Waste of time. Sorry.

Yogi

RBTuning
14th November, 2019, 05:17 PM
So if I am not mistaking, you want the AXE software with the properties of the BPC?
I can make that for you.

cocktailyogi
14th November, 2019, 06:35 PM
So if I am not mistaking, you want the AXE software with the properties of the BPC?
I can make that for you.

You are correct, but I want to make it on my own :-)
But I was in need for help. On Saturday I will test my first version :-)

Thx, for your offer,
Yogi

tommy8888
15th November, 2019, 02:00 PM
See this video, exactly what you want to do.
You can find all maps in 2D mode if you stop the video at the right time. I already did it myself and the car is running fine.


https://youtu.be/cU2ihHdUd4U

cocktailyogi
16th November, 2019, 10:53 AM
Oh, nice video. I did not know about it. I had to figure it out on my own. But that guy only copys the SOI and Duration maps.
No BIP, no Turbo, no N75, no SOI switch, and he has missed a few Duration-Maps.

But I think, it is a good starting-point.

cocktailyogi
16th November, 2019, 01:48 PM
Hey guys,

I just came back from a 30km Testdrive. The Multivan runs perfect with the new Software !!!!!!!
Special THX to DiegoStud (https://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/member.php/668886-DiegoStud) for his great help and consultation. I am very proud of this project.

Kind Regards, Yogi