Lishi Hu92 3 in 1 on X5 E70

[Willisodhiambo]

I am learning how to pick my car locks. Easy on Hu100 F series but I can't figure it out on the Hu92. It is two track but positive does not bind at all.

I can feel binding on the odd numbers and I pick 3 or 4 positions. I have tried with light tension and high tension, nothing.

Strangely I have managed to pick in lock direction:)

Any sequence I need to follow? The Hu100 needs very light tension and is way too easy. Nothing like the Hu92 that I have not once cracked

[rob h]

Often locks are made to close easier then open.

Try pick only the upper row first, or the lower row first.
Whatever is easiest.

And if you use the code, from the first time you picked it to close.
Make marks on the lishi, so you make sure, not to overlift.

More tension could do the trick, but it is not the correct way.
So take your time,

[p1et]

From what I remember, Mr. Li the creator of Lishi, stated that with HU92, always begin from bottom line. Honestly this don't need to be a rule, I completely do not pay attention to that, this HU92 lock is one of the easiest also, never had a signle problem with those. Practise, practise and practise... That's all ;)

[rapidlocksmiths]

HU92 is a straight forward lock , 2 tools that both require differing approaches , single lift tool which i prefer and twin lift tool , i prefer the single lift tool as on older more worn locks or locks with alot of high lifts it allows more tension to be applied , the twin lift tool does not like heavier tension.

if all wafers are moving and nothing binds then more tension is required . the hardest differ i had to pick had 3 x 1 cuts and 2 x 2 cuts all adjoining , 12 year old lock , needed plenty of tension and picking same wafer multiple times , still under 2 mins to open but a fighter .
the differ has an impact on how easy or hard it picks , as does lock condition.

theres no wrong way if it opens , its just practice and technique

[Willisodhiambo]

Often locks are made to close easier then open.

Try pick only the upper row first, or the lower row first.
Whatever is easiest.

And if you use the code, from the first time you picked it to close.
Make marks on the lishi, so you make sure, not to overlift.

More tension could do the trick, but it is not the correct way.
So take your time,

Now that you mention, overlift may be one issue. In some wafers I feel like they lack two three times easy without stopping. Then almost all seen to reach far beyond position 4. I'll keep playing with it

[the_big_d]

The HU92 is the only lock I consistently struggle with, like yourself i can pick it in the lock direction no problem but struggle with unlocking & often just end up using plug spinner .

[rapidlocksmiths]

thats no issue when its someone who knows how to use a plug spinner , been to plenty of these were plug spinner has broken paddle off lock as wound too much , trouble is its customer that suffers as has no idea till they need to use manual key again , as spinner opens car as paddle breaks off , so often goes unoticed till the key has to be used manually

[Willisodhiambo]

The HU92 is the only lock I consistently struggle with, like yourself i can pick it in the lock direction no problem but struggle with unlocking & often just end up using plug spinner .

At least it seems they need more practise. I'll keep trying it. I have also ordered another tool to see which works easiest.

[the_big_d]

thats no issue when its someone who knows how to use a plug spinner , been to plenty of these were plug spinner has broken paddle off lock as wound too much , trouble is its customer that suffers as has no idea till they need to use manual key again , as spinner opens car as paddle breaks off , so often goes unoticed till the key has to be used manually
I aggree it could be risky but so far never broke one yet. After i use a lishi on a lock once i retrieve the keys I always check the lock works in front of the owner, regardless of whether a plug spinner has been used or not. I dont want someone coming back weeks later saying their lock doesn’t work since you had that thing in it.

[PixelsFixed]

Pick it to lock, decode, cut a blade?

[camelgd]

Pick it to lock, decode, cut a blade?

You can, but unless you are making a key, save a buck. You can use the clip out emergency keys from china, have done it several times on Mercedes, also BMW mini. Haven't had any problems with the keyway you are talking about.

[rapidlocksmiths]

i always pick open and have never had an issue on any bmw , ive done plenty over the years both on the job and on demo cars at trade shows around the world , the most commonly requested locks at tradeshows were always hu101 , hu64 , hon66 , toy48 and va6 , i really would be dissapointed if it took more than a few minutes to pick open an HU92 , theres no quick fix or tricks to open these easily , just bench time , practice and getting to know and understand the lock .

the more time you put into knowing the lock and the more time you put into practice pays dividends

[Willisodhiambo]

I spent a good 30min and not once did it open :):) But like you say, bench time. I will keep at it until I can atleast crack it just once.

[PixelsFixed]

Absolutely. I just couldn't get Lishi at all. I'd spend half an hour to get one to pick, then it'd take the same time again. I wasn't confident and it felt like it was luck if it opened. I spent hours at it, over weeks, months and years, always coming back to it to try, I and couldn't do it repeatedly or consistently. It was just luck or infinite monkeys/typewriter/Shakespeare.

I always got the car open, but it took ages.

Just before lockdown, I broke the second turbodecoder and decided I needed to get it mastered.

I sat down one day in lockdown, commandeered the kitchen table, brought my box of locks, vice and picks and was prepared to spend as long as it took, and was determined to get to grips with it.

After about an hour, it finally just clicked and once it did, it was just immediate. Every lock picked either way in a few moments.

I spent the the full day on it, picking dismantling, repinning randomly etc., I can say that I'm now confident that I'm able to do all the locks I do , HU92, 100, 101, 58 and 64 and know that I'll pick them either to lock or unlock and decode them correctly - even HU58 - in a couple of minutes and I now even do them for fun!

I carry hu101 JLR door locks to swap out where people have lost or never had the emergency blade. Yesterday, I picked it, decoded it and cut the blade. It'd still have been quicker to swap out the lock, but .....

Just practice and one day, it'll come.

[rapidlocksmiths]

I spent a good 30min and not once did it open :):) But like you say, bench time. I will keep at it until I can atleast crack it just once.

30 minutes is nothing , if it was easily mastered in 30 minutes then it wouldnt require much skill or technique at all .

back when we was developing the lishi tools and the tools were new to the market , as part of working on their developement id buy 6 to 8 locks , strip them study them , rebuild them . project the lock and the prototype tool until the tool and my technique was correct , this process sometimes took months from scratch , but there was no info no guides and no forum help back then , and the tools were still in prototype stage .

if it could be learnt and mastered in minutes or hours then it wouldnt be a skilled process at all , the finished tools , internet and guides make learning far easier today , but you must still understand the lock and its construction and habits , and you must develop the feel for the lock and tool , its all about feel and practice time.

when brain and hands work together and your brain interprets what you feel it comes together , as with anything in life , the more effort you put in the more you get out of it.

[Willisodhiambo]

Thanks. INTERESTING. So I have tested a HU92 from an E46, cracked it in 2min flat!!

The tool I have is Lishi HU92(10) BM2. It did the E46 lock very easy. Ill keep trying the E70 version. Thanks for the encouragement.

I saw there were differnt HU92s, Ill have a look again incase I have the wrong version for the E70

[PixelsFixed]

Same lock.

[rapidlocksmiths]

same lock , same process , some are easier than others , this is down to the locks differ , a differ with more low cuts and less high cuts will be far easier than a differ with alot of adjoining high cuts , it isnt the tool that makes one lock easier and 1 lock harder , it is a combination of the differ and the locks condition that will determine how much fight it has .

theres no wrong versions , all versions work on all , though some version one tools wont get insertion in some of the later locks due to recessed keyways in handles , the (10) signifies that your tool has had a revison for recessed handles is all .

[PixelsFixed]

What's a "differ"? The differential between adjoining cuts?

[rapidlocksmiths]

the key cuts / key code , differ refers to the cuts of the key , ie , 12344321 is 1 differ 12432132 is another differ etc , its just locksmith terminology for the cuts on a key , its a different key code refered to as a differ being short for different key , all lock series have banned differs , differs that will never be used , ie , 11111111 , 22222222 etc , referred to as banned differs , differs that should not be used .

so when they work out how many differs a lock series can have , ie how many different key codes in a series , they work it out as follows for say hu101 with 10 positions and 5 heights , so worked out as

5x5x5x5x5x5x5x5x5x5 = 9765625 potential differs

they then take out all the banned differs , they then remove the differs that dont follow the key rules that they impose , in case of first hu101 series this includes the 10th position always being a 2 cut , this reduces the differs alot on its own , this 1 key rule reduces the potential differs by 1812500 to 7953125.
other key rules on this series ie that adjoining cuts will never be more than 2 cuts away from the cut it sits next to has a huge impact on the differs and reduces it to much more modest numbers of potential differs .

when they want to bring out a new series on same keyway they then only need to change the key rules to create a new series of differs , ie remove the key rule of 10th cut must be a 2 cut and they have plenty more differs to create a new code series with as they did with the extended series .

this has little interest for most , its only relevent to lock manufacturers who all strive to build locks they can have multiple key series on , the more potential differs the more lock series they can release .

lishi decodes the differ we require , allowing us to cut the correct key .

ive worked on and been involved in a number of lock development and master key projects , and the tests these have to get through , the maths and the dos and donts that have to be factored in is complex and fascinating , but to like this side of locksmithing you have to be a lock anorak , but once upon a time it was what a locksmith was , someone who knew and understood locks , built locks , locksmith was a title once earnt and not a self imposed title , not glamourous at all but fascinating . gets far more interesting when dealing with household locks , safe locks that are far harder to get through standards tests than the simpler car locks that dont have such stringent standards to meet and surpass .

in reality auto locksmiths stopped being locksmiths a long time ago , its a trade now made up of electronics gurus , computer language guys , mechanical engineers, electricians etc etc , and of course those that buy a chinese offering and a pick and advertise themselves as locksmiths , truth is this trade has evolved a long way from locksmithing , where 90% are not locksmiths at all as its now such a small part of the job we do now , its hard to give a name to the job today where so many different disciplines must be learnt , id struggle to come up with a name that would encompass the whole job and do justice to the accumilated specialist areas .

[Willisodhiambo]

Thanks, well understood. Then it looks like I have a tough life ahead trying to crack the E70 lock am working on. Will give it a go again and again.

[PixelsFixed]

the key cuts / key code , differ refers to the cuts of the key , ie , 12344321 is 1 differ 12432132 is another differ etc , its just locksmith terminology for the cuts on a key , its a different key code refered to as a differ being short for different key , all lock series have banned differs , differs that will never be used , ie , 11111111 , 22222222 etc , referred to as banned differs , differs that should not be used .

so when they work out how many differs a lock series can have , ie how many different key codes in a series , they work it out as follows for say hu101 with 10 positions and 5 heights , so worked out as

5x5x5x5x5x5x5x5x5x5 = 9765625 potential differs

they then take out all the banned differs , they then remove the differs that dont follow the key rules that they impose , in case of first hu101 series this includes the 10th position always being a 2 cut , this reduces the differs alot on its own , this 1 key rule reduces the potential differs by 1812500 to 7953125.
other key rules on this series ie that adjoining cuts will never be more than 2 cuts away from the cut it sits next to has a huge impact on the differs and reduces it to much more modest numbers of potential differs .

when they want to bring out a new series on same keyway they then only need to change the key rules to create a new series of differs , ie remove the key rule of 10th cut must be a 2 cut and they have plenty more differs to create a new code series with as they did with the extended series .

this has little interest for most , its only relevent to lock manufacturers who all strive to build locks they can have multiple key series on , the more potential differs the more lock series they can release .

lishi decodes the differ we require , allowing us to cut the correct key .

ive worked on and been involved in a number of lock development and master key projects , and the tests these have to get through , the maths and the dos and donts that have to be factored in is complex and fascinating , but to like this side of locksmithing you have to be a lock anorak , but once upon a time it was what a locksmith was , someone who knew and understood locks , built locks , locksmith was a title once earnt and not a self imposed title , not glamourous at all but fascinating . gets far more interesting when dealing with household locks , safe locks that are far harder to get through standards tests than the simpler car locks that dont have such stringent standards to meet and surpass .

in reality auto locksmiths stopped being locksmiths a long time ago , its a trade now made up of electronics gurus , computer language guys , mechanical engineers, electricians etc etc , and of course those that buy a chinese offering and a pick and advertise themselves as locksmiths , truth is this trade has evolved a long way from locksmithing , where 90% are not locksmiths at all as its now such a small part of the job we do now , its hard to give a name to the job today where so many different disciplines must be learnt , id struggle to come up with a name that would encompass the whole job and do justice to the accumilated specialist areas .

Thanks. Very interesting.

[Willisodhiambo]

Interesting. I tried the HU92 groove pick and opened it first time!!!

Noticed that with the key there is a pressure point to overcome in unlock direction, almost like a sticking wafer.

Anyhow, I now have a back up plan with the 2 groove pick, still not succeeded with the lishi but the learning continues. Will keep trying.