OUR CAR WAS NICKED WITHOUT KEYS

[digitalvirgin]

Hi guys, im pretty new to this, im wondering if anyone can help me, id be very grateful, i live in manchester and approx 18 months ago, mine and my wifes car was stolen from our drive, without the keys, we have been facing a battle with an insurance company, an insurance investigator who has been bullying and intimadating me and my wife....They think that because we have both sets of keys, we have stolen our own car, it was recovered a week later burnt out, and we are now in the hands of the financial ombudsmen service, who have asked us if we could do some research into how it may have been stolen... firstly it could have been picked up by a 'low loader' or towtruck, secondly someone could have made a copy of the key, and thirdly after speaking to some experts there are ways of getting into vehicles without the original key, i have been told an arbitrus 72 is one of these machines... can anyone please help us as we have endured a nightmare 18 months, and we are still paying ?250 a month on a leased car that isnt here anymore, we're just hoping anyone can shed any light on this or give us any kind of info that could help us, so we can pass it on to our insurance company and our solicitors, our car was a 07 reg audi a3... please help someone???? thanks..... Mr K, Manchester.

[larryoke]

Sorry to here about your bad luck but what a load of shite! if you did'nt have the keys they would say that you left them in the car and would'nt pay out anyway, the insurance companies know that these crooks are well clued up on how to nick cars, I feel that it's up to them to investigate and not for you to do this (do you pay for legal assistance?) and to pay you out,
18 months is a long time for settlement when it's sorted try claiming your expenses aswell all the best & hope you get sorted soon.

[gazzaull22]

you have not given all the details.
What was the cars?
how old was they?
how many keys did u have for the cars?
did they have an alarms fitted?
Why are the isurance getting you to find how it could be stolen? sounds a bit suss to me !

[Meat-Head]

ok get them to prove you did it.

Was the car new when you got it and haw many owners if so, was it a local car from where you got it, how long was it from being stolen to being found, how can they be 100% sure it was your car! Etc

For all you/they know is somebody dragged it off your drive, with a tow truck, swapped the engine, dumped it and burn baby burn.

Intreasting thread anyway.

Besides it would be thatcham cat2 spec immo anyway, so therefore you know it would have been immbolised.

[olib8]

hope you get it sorted mate.

insurance companies are all ba5tard5.

[BeianM]

Sorry to hear of your problem. It may be that someone has already been charged for the theft of your car & you don't know about it. The police may have caught someone for another theft & they did a deal in admitting to other crimes including yours. I don't know how you find out but it may well be that you should write a letter to the chief constable asking the question, or if your theft was investigated in conjunction with others of similar high value cars stolen witout keys. Or how common is it to have a car stolen these days without keys. You may get the right answer.
If a key cloning machine was used then I think it would have to be done when in for service. It is done via the obd socket & I think it would have to have the ign. switched on. Otherwise they will have to silence the siren, get into the car, turn the ign. on by bypassing it then doing the key clone. If your key has a blade then they will have needed this also or have to smash the lock. Was there no evidence of this? The car could easily have been jacked up on each wheel to move it on to a low loader. If they were going to do this then they wanted it for parts. Were there any signs that the car had been stripped before being torched? Have you checked with Audi to see how many keys were issued for this car. Was it bought new, perhaps a previous owner kept a key or a car salesman. Audi will have a record if any official keys were made. Is the car still being held awaiting claim? If so it may be possible to have the ecu checked to see if it has had the imobillis er turned off. So, get in car, smash ign lock, start car & away you go. Don't need a clone key.
Food for thought!! hope you get it sorted.

[Tommy123Tommy]

if your vehicle uses a transponder/keyfob, then most can be intercepted .

Someone waits near by with a keyfob and wait for you to lock your car and intercept the code been sent , then you walk away and they drive away .
shimples

[smirnoff_rules]

l heard people in the uk where getting there m8's that work for agents in eastern Europe to order replacement keys and post them to the uk

they do it for locking wheels nuts . for the Bentleys and top end cars

[carclima]

Hi guys, im pretty new to this, im wondering if anyone can help me, id be very grateful, i live in manchester and approx 18 months ago, mine and my wifes car was stolen from our drive, without the keys, we have been facing a battle with an insurance company, an insurance investigator who has been bullying and intimadating me and my wife....They think that because we have both sets of keys, we have stolen our own car, it was recovered a week later burnt out, and we are now in the hands of the financial ombudsmen service, who have asked us if we could do some research into how it may have been stolen... firstly it could have been picked up by a 'low loader' or towtruck, secondly someone could have made a copy of the key, and thirdly after speaking to some experts there are ways of getting into vehicles without the original key, i have been told an arbitrus 72 is one of these machines... can anyone please help us as we have endured a nightmare 18 months, and we are still paying ?250 a month on a leased car that isnt here anymore, we're just hoping anyone can shed any light on this or give us any kind of info that could help us, so we can pass it on to our insurance company and our solicitors, our car was a 07 reg audi a3... please help someone???? thanks..... Mr K, Manchester.

there is so many way to stole any Audi..It depends how much money you want to spend in equipment..we dont speak about hi tech stuff..it is regular tool for repairing this car..if you spend 300$ you can fire up any audi without keys..about removing key cilinder from ignition block..cheap cordless drill with 3,2 mm ..will do the work in minute..

but most of this cars is simple stolen on some flatbed truck ..then solve electronic on quite place..even for youre A3 ..I will need about 3 minutes to start it with any key...

also you have all 3 keys? easy way to diagnose youre car instrument cluster to see how many key realy are autorized to start this car..on this audi every key have uniq number..and last fact..all this youre insurance or police experts know for sure..but they need to pay..and this is hard..so good luck to you..

Stjepan Vukic

Max - Alarm &

Croatia

[BeianM]

if your vehicle uses a transponder/keyfob, then most can be intercepted .

Someone waits near by with a keyfob and wait for you to lock your car and intercept the code been sent , then you walk away and they drive away .
shimples

Tommy please back up this statement with facts & equipment. All newer vehicles have a rolling code. This means that it never uses the same code twice. So your kit may have read the last code but does not know the new one. This may have worked on an old escort but I don't think it will be the case any more.

[DavC]

thats really shit luck, hope you get it sorted. also can you please name and shame the insurance company, as i want to make sure i never use them!

[yamar1]

disgraceful that, as said its up to them to prove otherwise, not you. the thing is car theft these days is almost non existant unless its with a key, thats why your getting investigated but stand your ground and they will have to pay up. threaten the bastards with a solicitors letter and costs they know they will loose.

[^^TommyTee]

thats bad news ..it wouldent surprise me if you insurance was with d****t l**e a friend of mine had problems with them over a simlar situation it turned they had dragged it onto a drop back truck

the insurance should pay you out really afterall thats why you get insurance too cover 3rd parties and against theft n fire

and its understandable that you had the keys

if it was found burnt out had it been driven was it a stealable car ?

ie most modern cars have immo which wont start the car unless the key is present

but there are ways of bypassing this

.................................................. .................................................. ...................

Seems that car thieves have found yet another way to steal your car or truck without any effort at all. The car thieves peer through the windshield of your car or truck, write down the VIN # from the label on the dash, go to the local car dealership and request a duplicate key based on the VIN#.

I didn't believe it, so I called a friend at Chrysler Dealership and pretended I had lost my keys. They told me to just bring in the VIN #, and they would cut me one on the spot, and I could order the keyless device if I wanted

The Car Dealer's Parts Department will make a duplicate key from the VIN #, and collect payment from the thief, who will return to your car. He doesn't have to break in, do any damage to the vehicle, or draw attention to himself. All he has to do is walk up to your car, insert the key, and off he goes to a local Chop Shop with your vehicle. You don't believe it? It IS that easy. To avoid this from happening to you, simply put some tape (electrical tape, duct tape or medical tape) across the VIN Metal Label located inside the windshield on the dash board. By law, you cannot remove the VIN, but you can cover it so it can't be viewed through the windshield by a car thief. I urge you to forward this to your friends before some other car thief steals another car or truck. I slipped a 3 x 5 card over my car's VIN #.

[nutloose]

get the crime number off the police and send it to the insurance. If the police have it recorded as a crime of theft then that's what it was.

If the insurance have accused you of attempted insurance fraud then go and get legal advice.

As for do some research into how it may have been stolen, refer them to the vehicle crime unit, thats what they do for a living

[z786]

show them a copy of
"gone in 60 seconds"
very educational lol

[Elric]

i wish someone pinch me pug 306,mind you... if they did they wont
get far cos the tank always nearly empty

[BeianM]

I think that with the information you have here you have an interesting item for bbc watchdog. Write them a letter & see if you get a reply. Insurance companies dont like tv exposing their practices.

[digitalvirgin]

Hey Guys, Id just like to thank you all for your amazing feedback, im pretty overwhelmed, i appreciate your support.... A bit more info to fill you in...

The vehicle was a 2007 Audi A3 1.9tdi Sportback 5 door, (not an s-line or anything sporty) just a bog standard one, i got it for my mrs as wedding present on lease from lex vehicle leasing, i was paying approx ?250 a month (which im still paying now to this day, for a car that isnt on my drive...... When we reported it stolen, the police were very sympathetic and said although it is nopt very common to steal without keys, its also not very rare..... The insurance company (ESURE/ SHEILAS WHEELS) sent a 3rd party investigator round who had already made his mind up.
He turned up one thursday evening to collect the 2 sets of keys, in a nutshell, he was trying to intimidate us and be aggressive, he stated that 'he had an appointment on monday at cheshire police, and if we didnt ring him by tommorow to stop the claim and forget about our vehicle he wouldnt press charges', he was such an arrogant bully, to which i told him to 'get out of my house'.....
The insurance company decided not to pay out based on probabilities and not hard facts, and now it is in the hands of the financial ombudsmen service, and im awaiting on a decision from them, one of there case adjudicator agrees that they should pay us out, but it is ultimately upto the senior ombudsmen to make the final decision... I thought i would try and gather some info to present to this guy before he makes the final decision....hence being on here, i appreciate your views and advice guys, its hopefully going to help.........


you have got to look at the possible motives as to why i would steal my own car:

1.It was a shitty banger : NO it was a brand new audi.
2. We needed the money : NO it wasnt even our car, it was leased, meaning the money doesnt come to us anyway.
3. We were struggling with the lease payments. : NO we never ever missed a payment, and if we wanted to we could of contacted them and told them to collect the car today for a hugely reduced settlement figure, ( we only had 6 months left)
4. If we wanted to steal our car, surely we would of thrown away the keys or at least one of them!!
5. Not trying to sound big headed, but ive never missed a payment in my life on any of my vehicles , i drive an audi s8, bmw 7 series and a mercedes Kompressor, so why on earth would i want to go to great lengths to steal my wifes car!!!


I hope this gives you guys more info, my solicitors advised me to try and get more info , as much as possible to try and help me in my case, Sheilas wheels thought id give up, theres no way im going to give up, there case is marked with flaws, one example, they said the car was found burnt out 300 miles away when in fact on the police and fire report it was 20 miles away in warrington, they said they had a police report with evidence, when in fact they didnt, the police didnt have any evidence......an absolute nightmare!!

One last thing, i received an email from cheshire police that they have been circulating around their force to say that 'remote doorbells and garage door openers can scramble signals of vehicles with remote locking(which most cars have now anyway), id love to get in touch with anyone who can try and give me some more info, thanks guys, have a nice day!!!

[BeianM]

I really think you should contact audi to see how many keys have been supplied for this vehicle. Find out if the car has been desposed of if not go see it & find out if it has been stripped. It sounds like you have a reasonable case already.

[exe123]

Just check this.
You can open almost every VAG car without keys.

YouTube - Polenschl?ssel im Einsatz am Schloss von Skoda Porsche Seat Audi VW VAG Ford
YouTube - Drive Box Polenschl?ssel vs. WFS

Audi A3 with 1.9TDI will have EDC16. Very easy to disable the immobilizer. There are 1 button tools which can do it via OBD.

So with this "Polenschl?ssel" and the 1 button device you can steal the car in less then 5 minutes I guess. And you still have all original keys at home. If you still have access to the car and the ECU is not fully burned I guess you can send it in to Audi and they will check if immobilizer is on or off.

[digitalvirgin]

Thanks for the youtube clips, they are going to be a great help.....

also just checked with macclesfield audi, and new cars come with 2 key fobs and a master key, we were only given 2 KEY FOBS!!!!

All this advice is appreciated guys, im going to sit down this weekend with my solicitor and make a note of everything you guys have said so we can present this to the ombudsmen and hopefully get them to make the right decision!!!

Any more advice would be appreciated....


Thanks..

[laldog]

2 things if the insurance company say you had anything to do with the car going missing send them a letter saying if that is the case you expect to be prosecuted for such!! That aint gonna happen.
Second have the Police made any investigations to see if there is a common link to the Lease company. A rogue driver selling spare keys would not be the first time that has happened.

[digitalvirgin]

Hi laldog, thanks for replying...

Do you think that would work with the insurance company, by sending them a letter asking them to prove it??

Also, do i contact the police with the crime reference number to ask them about the investigation???

Kind Regards

Mr K

Manchester

[BeianM]

I think that you can say without doubt that your car can be stolen without a key. The youtube videos prove it.
Yes ask the police if there are any updates with regard your crime no. If someone has 'copped' to it then it will be on record. You can say that within 24 hrs of posting your question on a public web forum you were shown how your car could be stolen without keys!! Have you asked Audi if any keys have been made since manufacture, also have keys been issued to a dealership overseas. The records will be held at the factory not with the dealer. If the car has been destroyed then the insurance company have destroyed evidence & should pay you immediatly. If not then get the ecu checked. It is still you car to do with what you want!
I have just been on youtube & found a tool that will open your doorlock & Turn the ign. without breaking it. You can buy a kit of lock picks for just ?60. You should join the forum over at 'uk bump keys' & ask your question there. They may tell you where to get the drive box used in the youtube video.

[digitalvirgin]

Thanks very much mate, your a great help, im going to join the uk bump key forum tonight and hopefully get some joy!! i appreciate that!! how do i cut and paste the links of them youtube videos so i can email them to my solicitor, ive tried to copy them but i cant do it for some reason!!!

if anyone has anymore videos or information that may be able to help me in my fight against sheilas wheels, please let me know, i would be very grateful!!!


Thanks.

[dik]

Here are thr url's for the utube videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoooL-JELhc&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUXFUB6fR4E&feature=player_embedded

[laldog]

Yeah write them a letter.in this country we live by a very well known part of law that you can always quote to them.
Innocent until proven guilty. They need to put up or shut up.
I cant understand why you have let them bully you for so long. Stand up to them and turn it around. Make them prove to you,not the other way around. Put everything in writing and make sure you give them a set date for a reply.
Go on give them hell!! Oh and do not pussy about name them,name them and name them again!!!!!!