Fiat 500 Delphi Body Clone

[amar28]

Hi

just after some advice if someone has already done this

2010 Fiat 500, Delphi BCM, Pic attached

NEC mcu + eep

i understand NEC has OTP and cannot clone 1:1

if using same part number, moveing eeprom is enough or must move MCU also, Im assuming if same P/N flash should be same, All key data etc is in eep

can someone confirm correct way to clone this BCM?

[Stelaras26]

io terminal,or autel im 608(i think) can read it obd on bench via pinout.Smok Jtag,vvdi ,orange5 can read via points on pcb.
Different nec in some of them,some dont even have external eeprom.upload numbers of bsi to be sure.BUT it needs flash+eeprom cloning to start car

[amar28]

io terminal,or autel im 608(i think) can read it obd on bench via pinout.Smok Jtag,vvdi ,orange5 can read via points on pcb.
Different nec in some of them,some dont even have external eeprom.upload numbers of bsi to be sure.BUT it needs flash+eeprom cloning to start car


picture is attached on first post

i have SMOK, Can read flash OBD, Read/Write eep OBD, Cant write Flash and there must be good reason for it, I believe Flash cannot be copied over 100% as has OTP

So only solution would be to move MCU? Im positive there will be a way to make sync data in eeprom so no need to change flash

[Stelaras26]

brother i am trying to help you,the pic is tiny,i have already seen it.
Avdi can read write.Autel can read write as i see in their documents.Io terminal can read write,all depends form the mcu.Maybe smok,cant!
Are you sure this bsi has eeprom?Can you upload ori read?
Its Harder,and will take much mor time to part the two boards and replace mcu.But will work for sure :P

[lion0304]

If OTP, don't loose you time to try cloning flash. You'll loose the doner MCU.

Write eeprom and swap NEC. That is only solution when OTP.

[amar28]

If OTP, don't loose you time to try cloning flash. You'll loose the doner MCU.

Write eeprom and swap NEC. That is only solution when OTP.


exactly my point, Most NEC have OTP, Just checked IM608, Add key + keys lost ok, Immo part replacement not supported
Im looking for someone who can sync the eeprom data with flash without changing MCU, Of course last option will be to change

[Antonio266]

With IOTerminal license BSI2 you can do a full clone, Flash and Eeprom, done many times also between different part numbers..
Or if exactly same part number you can copy only Eeprom
All Delphi BSI with the Grey socket are NEC 70F3379 + 93C86

[lion0304]

For me 2H all done by hand and hot air gun

I've also rework station 5400W from 12 years, but now use only when working on BGA (ECU)

[amar28]

With IOTerminal license BSI2 you can do a full clone, Flash and Eeprom, done many times also between different part numbers..
Or if exactly same part number you can copy only Eeprom
All Delphi BSI with the Grey socket are NEC 70F3379 + 93C86


correct my BCM is 70F3379 + 93C86

so if the part numbers match exactly, Write C86 and that it car should start? The module will not get damaged by writing eeprom only?

i can write eep by SMOK obd or by can so dont even need to open

[amper]

correct my BCM is 70F3379 + 93C86

so if the part numbers match exactly, Write C86 and that it car should start? The module will not get damaged by writing eeprom only?

i can write eep by SMOK obd or by can so dont even need to open

If your eeprom looks like this, the car will not start.

[Antonio266]

If your eeprom looks like this, the car will not start.
You're wrong, Eeprom look like that because it's readed Crypted, can be decrypted if you know how to do it manually, or IoTerminal can read it decrypted, but you can't write it decrypted.

Answering @amar28, yes if exactly same part number you can write only Eeprom and car will start no problem.

[amper]

You're wrong, Eeprom look like that because it's readed Crypted, can be decrypted if you know how to do it manually, or IoTerminal can read it decrypted, but you can't write it decrypted.

Answering @amar28, yes if exactly same part number you can write only Eeprom and car will start no problem.


I am not wrong. You can only replace eeproms with non-crypto notation. Each eeprom crypto has a unique data encryption method. I can do anything with this BSI. I can manually add keys, change pin code or sync. I can create a new eeprom having a flasch dump from the NEC mcu. Why do I need all this if I could only replace the eeprom?

[Antonio266]

Because if part numbers are the same, that means NEC Flash is the same, in this case you can write only Eeprom.
The Eeprom is crypted on itself, you don't need NEC to decrypt it, for example last week i've replaced two of these BSI, G. Punto and Nemo, i bought exactly same part numbers and wrote only Eep, everything fine.

There are still people replacing these BSI with same p/n only swapping Eep on PCB, i've seen that, the Immo Data transfer is needed in Marelli BSI when SW level is different

Then tell me one thing, if Immo Data is in Eeprom, how are you gonna create a Eeprom only from the MCU dump?
Key IDs, Active and Inactive Key IDs, RF codes, ECU Sync, VIN and Proxy Configuration are all stored ONLY in Eeprom, so what are you gonna create from only a MCU file? Are you gonna guess all these and fill in a Eeprom dump? Explain please..

[amar28]

This is like PSA BSI, Eeprom will only fit the same flash version it came with
Eeprom transfer onto BSI with different Flash will not work, It makes sense

Once i attend this job again to complete it, I will report on this thread so we all know for the future, the 100% correct answer

[amper]

.................................................. ..:smile-new:

[amar28]

Hi

my org bcm flash + ee and donor flash + ee attached

org and donor bcm have 35 differences in flash, question is if the org eeprom will work with donor flash

[amar28]

So it turns out AMPER is correct

flash and eeprom must have sync, my flash is 99% the same, only 35 differences, write org ee, cranks but dont start

so now who can help me sync org eeprom and donor flash data?

[amper]

Antonio 266 received many thanks for incorrect information, maybe he has some suggestions for you. Maybe you prefer me to make a working file for you.

[amar28]

Antonio 266 received many thanks for incorrect information, maybe he has some suggestions for you. Maybe you prefer me to make a working file for you.

i need help from any member to make this work

i am not taking anyones side, I am reporting correct result

you were right, moving only eep doesnt work

can you make a correct file for me pls

[amper]

Try this file it should be ok although I made it in a rush and it is a lot of work.

[Antonio266]

What incorrect informations? If Flash is not 100% the same that means part numbers are not the same, in this case it won't work.
I've already said i've done that myself only cloning Eeprom, the last one was a Citroen Nemo, and some days ago i had here a G. Punto with two body with same P/N cloned with IO Terminal only transferring Eeprom, so i'm talking for direct experience, and there are still people here that clone these with same P/N swapping Eeprom phisically..

Then, there's another point: why every Eeprom can be decrypted with the exact same algo without the need of the MCU file? Or are you trying to say that you need NEC data for Eeprom decrypting? I'm not getting that point..

I repeat myself again, if the part numbers are exactly the same, in this case, in my experience, i've transferred only Eeprom and started the car.
With your sentences you're pratically saying IOTerminal license BSI2 is useless and can't clone this BSI, but we all know that's not true..

And one last thing, i've never had the need to 'Make a working file' for this BSI. I don't get your sarcastic tone, i also can decrypt these Eeproms manually, i can transfer Immo in Marelli MB91 BSI, i can sync ECU-BSI also for vehicles with Fiat BSI but PSA ECU (like Boxer, Nemo, Bipper..) and still i'm not playing the 'Professor' like you're doing here, so i respect what you're saying, i have nothing against you, but really i'm not getting the sarcastic tone you're having with me.

[amper]

Grande Punto has never had a BSI crypto.

[amar28]

My part numbers are exactly the same

i can upload pic to prove it

the 35 differnces are not because p/n is different, it must be the OTP in flash

i will try AMPER's file and report result here

[Antonio266]

My bad, i meant to say Punto Evo

Anyway, you are still answering only to what you like and not to every points, but this is the thread of @amar28 and i don't want to go OT, so i would stop here, peace

[amper]

The original BSI and donor have the same numbers 51852599 28210051. Maybe there is some other number, but where to find it. Maybe the Antonio266 (https://www.digital-kaos.co.uk/forums/member.php/740985-Antonio266) will tell us.

[Antonio266]

I'm telling again like already said: i've never done an Immo Transfer on Delphi BSI, so i can't do it if that's the specific need here.
But you re still having sarcastic tone, i'm not getting why you took that so personally, i don't think i've offended you in some ways, and i don't like to argue in this way on the Forum, for me that's not the spirit.
So if you've felt offended for something i said to you i'm sorry, and if you have something to say to me in serious tone there's PM, not the @amar28 Thread.

[amper]

I use google translator so if that sounds bad it's not my fault and sorry. I don't mean anything by it, but we are here to help.

[Bllinda]

Try this file it should be ok although I made it in a rush and it is a lot of work.

No two BSIs are alike.


What incorrect informations? If Flash is not 100% the same that means part numbers are not the same, in this case it won't work.
I've already said i've done that myself only cloning Eeprom, the last one was a Citroen Nemo, and some days ago i had here a G. Punto with two body with same P/N cloned with IO Terminal only transferring Eeprom, so i'm talking for direct experience, and there are still people here that clone these with same P/N swapping Eeprom phisically..

Then, there's another point: why every Eeprom can be decrypted with the exact same algo without the need of the MCU file? Or are you trying to say that you need NEC data for Eeprom decrypting? I'm not getting that point..

I repeat myself again, if the part numbers are exactly the same, in this case, in my experience, i've transferred only Eeprom and started the car.
With your sentences you're pratically saying IOTerminal license BSI2 is useless and can't clone this BSI, but we all know that's not true..

And one last thing, i've never had the need to 'Make a working file' for this BSI. I don't get your sarcastic tone, i also can decrypt these Eeproms manually, i can transfer Immo in Marelli MB91 BSI, i can sync ECU-BSI also for vehicles with Fiat BSI but PSA ECU (like Boxer, Nemo, Bipper..) and still i'm not playing the 'Professor' like you're doing here, so i respect what you're saying, i have nothing against you, but really i'm not getting the sarcastic tone you're having with me.

[amar28]

So to conclude this thread, FIAT 500 BCM eeprom only is not enough

AMPER was correct all the way through

Through all this i learnt how to make the sync and move immo data myself

next time i can do this job myself

but special thanks to AMPER, Whilst we all doubted him, He was correct

Antonio - Thanks for also contributing to the thread

[massiwe]

Hello
One word for this discussion:
MCU doesn't have OTP, it is regular NEC with data and program Flash. To clone BCM on the bench you need to copy EEprom 93C86 Microchip and copy MCU program Flash.
Smok Jtag doesn't work, I asked support to fix it and they say that I have bad connection - end of story, my fault XD
Xprog 6.xx works perfect, it can be done without opening motherboards.

[amper]

Hello
One word for this discussion:
MCU doesn't have OTP, it is regular NEC with data and program Flash. To clone BCM on the bench you need to copy EEprom 93C86 Microchip and copy MCU program Flash.
Smok Jtag doesn't work, I asked support to fix it and they say that I have bad connection - end of story, my fault XD
Xprog 6.xx works perfect, it can be done without opening motherboards.

This is all true.

[sdade86]

i need help from any member to make this work

i am not taking anyones side, I am reporting correct result

you were right, moving only eep doesnt work

can you make a correct file for me pls

Hello mate, can you post the password for this file just for study? thanks

[kristikapa]

Hello
One word for this discussion:
MCU doesn't have OTP, it is regular NEC with data and program Flash. To clone BCM on the bench you need to copy EEprom 93C86 Microchip and copy MCU program Flash.
Smok Jtag doesn't work, I asked support to fix it and they say that I have bad connection - end of story, my fault XD
Xprog 6.xx works perfect, it can be done without opening motherboards.

I can confirm smok Jtag is not able to clone this MCU. As usual. SMOK will say user fault rather than accept his tool doesn`t work. I used vvdi prog and it worked. Just copy mcu and eeprom to donor. Car will start. No OTP

[Bridlore]

Sorry for the late reply buddy.

I have all the data and pin from the eeprom of this bsi using io terminal.

I want to edit the decoded eeprom data, so how can I re encode it when im done ?

Thanks in advance buddy.

[Dluisao]

i heve this bcm here and try swap eeprom but no work is crypted.
tomorow i try mcu clone. bcm is exacly same part number and same sw.

[Dluisao]

read sucess with vvdi 70f3379 not locked.

[Dluisao]

i com back i make copy from eeprom crypted and flash mcu to donor bcm and is working , with flash mcu 384ko is needed to make too.

[Rtsiger]

Hello. I would like to join the topic. I have a BSI dose with a different number. I would like to read the MCU on the bench using UPA. Does anyone have a description of the pinouts? (00518690940) I tried to transfer the eeprom itself but the car does not start.

[Dluisao]

Eeprom IS crypted no working.
You must uncrypted for Key coding or make mcu transfert and eeprom for working. Make picture from your bcm and type of mcu.

[Rtsiger]

1007151 1007152

[Rtsiger]

70F3379ZM2(A) + 93C86
I managed to get the pinout of my BCM, read the MCU from the original, and then entered the file into the donor. (both BCMs had a different number but the hardware was the same) Then I copied the eeprom and the car started. This solution gave me the expected effect. Greetings to everyone