Audi Q8 all key lost situation

[sasy90]

Hi to all,I have a question for expert locksmith user. I have a Audi Q8 in all key lost situation. Someone can help me to add new key? Is there a solution for this situation? I need also to buy a test platform to do it on bench... where can I buy it? Thanks

[qeso705]

When such exists then it cost probably much more as car itself. Only solution at current is key ordered from dealer and learn with ODIS online.

[sasy90]

i see online a store that sell original key not precoded, without vin...how i adapt?

[topclef]

don't waste your time , only solution = Dealer keys + ODIS

[sasy90]

In Napoli there is a workshop that do this work...I don't know how...but 100% work...how???

[godfathertwo]

I do not understand buy a vehicle like q8 £40 thousand plus why not go to vw or audi dealer 1 hour job pay price and go home this is not a fiesta and as topclef posted dealer
Only with key ordered .

[Oktawian]

I guess only dealer ? MEan they had dealer key from dealer and simply add it online.



Or they had another Q8 and put all ecu, drivers etc.... but i doubt that.

[rico126pl]

hi
if You buy new key's this need to precoded to car. VAG grup blocked they server to thirdpart tools and anybody cant read immo data from her server if you dont have this data no way to precode key's. And i gues this audi have new gereation of key. Sometime ago i have audi a4 b8 2020 keyless and anyone of my tools want read this key's only remote signal i cant read in coil. Whit this i think is that's same situation. Dont waste your time sorry

[Oktawian]

I do not understand buy a vehicle like q8 £40 thousand plus why not go to vw or audi dealer 1 hour job pay price and go home this is not a fiesta and as topclef posted dealer
Only with key ordered .



The problem with the dealer is, when you want to order the key for stolen car, police may have a problem with that...

And all those newish cars can be taken with "gameboy" ... but i guess is hard to go around with the car with 20k euro gameboy as a key...

[sasy90]

if original key not precoded don't work...why sell it??

[Oktawian]

Ori key is precoded, but You need to add it online using dealer soft.

[Maartinj]

150 000$ car .......and user is looking 100$ key ?

[fuzz1]

Hi
My car insurance covers for lost keys. I guess for such a car the keys would be covered.

With one working key you can add other keys to the car. In my country for one key around usd 700 from the dealer.

And yes as long as it's man made there will always be people finding way to bypass the keys or the system.

Two keys lost yes very shady.

[Supas]

In Napoli there is a workshop that do this work...I don't know how...but 100% work...how???


It's not that you can't...
There are those who sell Inmodata for a lot of $$$ (600U$S to up) and I think they sell the synchrony file too. If not, the synchronization file is obtained with calculators after individually reading the CS of the modules involved such as ELV, TCU, ECU, etc....
But buying real estate data plus touching the whole car in this way with equipment that is not cheap. No way.


I prefer Key Dealer and ODIS all my life... It's the right job apart from being cheaper and zero risk.

[Maartinj]

It's not that you can't...
There are those who sell Inmodata for a lot of $$$ (600U$S to up) and I think they sell the synchrony file too. If not, the synchronization file is obtained with calculators after individually reading the CS of the modules involved such as ELV, TCU, ECU, etc....
But buying real estate data plus touching the whole car in this way with equipment that is not cheap. No way.


I prefer Key Dealer and ODIS all my life... It's the right job apart from being cheaper and zero risk.
even that, what tool you use to make dealer key for this kind of car ?
dont thinks so tool exist , so pay for immo is waste of money
also virgin key exist ?
come one

[Supas]

even that, what tool you use to make dealer key for this kind of car ?
dont thinks so tool exist , so pay for immo is waste of money
also virgin key exist ?
come one


Hello Martin!
It's not me who says that it can be done only... just as the colleague knows a workshop that claims to be able to do it, there are also others who say they can do it.
I know a little about how real estate data calculations work and that is why I dare to say that I would not be surprised if it is possible... logically without thinking about the costs that can be high in very new systems, and especially in Audi systems in not so new, since in many cases to be able to do the calculations it is necessary to use a new module with a clean fazit (that is not registered in the geko server).
But I'm not dedicated to that. I do not recommend working like this.


Regarding the tool, I cannot answer wisely because I would never try to do that type of work in an Audi Q8 or in similar systems, as I said before, I prefer dealer key and online odis.


Regarding the key... the original part number of a Q8 from the year 2020 to 2023 is 4N0 959 754 J and if it is published for sale. With the chassis of the vehicle I could confirm it 100%


https://auto-keys.eu/original-smart-key-for-audi-a8-2017-buttons-3-frequency-434mhz-blade-signature-hu162t-part-no-4n0-959-754-j-keyless-go



All this in response to the colleague's question: "I don't want to say 100% yes, but..."
It is a very new system, so far I have not seen anyone nearby who has carried out a job in this way.
It is my humble opinion and I do not have the truth completely.

[p1et]

It's not me who says that it can be done only... just as the colleague knows a workshop that claims to be able to do it, there are also others who say they can do it.


They do this same way as you mentioned, dealer key + ODIS. Do you also think Miami Locksmith on instagram have aftermarket solution for FBS4?...

[p1et]

It's not me who says that it can be done only... just as the colleague knows a workshop that claims to be able to do it, there are also others who say they can do it.


They do this same way as you mentioned, dealer key + ODIS. Do you also think Miami Locksmith on instagram have aftermarket solution for FBS4?...

[sasy90]

Hello Martin!
It's not me who says that it can be done only... just as the colleague knows a workshop that claims to be able to do it, there are also others who say they can do it.
I know a little about how real estate data calculations work and that is why I dare to say that I would not be surprised if it is possible... logically without thinking about the costs that can be high in very new systems, and especially in Audi systems in not so new, since in many cases to be able to do the calculations it is necessary to use a new module with a clean fazit (that is not registered in the geko server).
But I'm not dedicated to that. I do not recommend working like this.


Regarding the tool, I cannot answer wisely because I would never try to do that type of work in an Audi Q8 or in similar systems, as I said before, I prefer dealer key and online odis.


Regarding the key... the original part number of a Q8 from the year 2020 to 2023 is 4N0 959 754 J and if it is published for sale. With the chassis of the vehicle I could confirm it 100%


https://auto-keys.eu/original-smart-key-for-audi-a8-2017-buttons-3-frequency-434mhz-blade-signature-hu162t-part-no-4n0-959-754-j-keyless-go



All this in response to the colleague's question: "I don't want to say 100% yes, but..."
It is a very new system, so far I have not seen anyone nearby who has carried out a job in this way.
It is my humble opinion and I do not have the truth completely.


This site sell keys not precoded...odis don't work i think....when i buy from this site is virgin keys

[Supas]

I posted a link to VIRGIN KEY in response to Martin asking if there are any blank keys for that car.


Regarding the FSB4 blank key, I have no idea if they will sell blank keys... One of the limitations of FSB4 to program today is that 2 security accesses are necessary for programming and it is only possible to get 1 outside the agency. Apart from needing a team to prepare the key if necessary.
At least that's what I could find out.

[u.s]

Was there a device a while ago, MOPAR or something that would do these? However, it all seems to have gone quiet and no further info about the device


EDIT: it was called MOFIA Tool

[sasy90]

I heard that people can add keys in all key lost situation on Q8... how? Why some sites sell kit of keys oem not precoded if is impossible to add ???

[Supas]

how?

I already explained it above... paying people who charge high sums of money to have the tools and the procedure to extract the information from the server... rather THE procedures, because there are several, it's not like before with vaghelper, that yes it was easy.
I repeat, it's a lot! cheaper and better job to buy Dealer key and program online than to pay for that service.






Why some sites sell kit of keys oem not precoded if is impossible to add ???

They have to sell them to someone... especially if there is someone who does what is mentioned above

[qeso705]

I already explained it above... paying people who charge high sums of money to have the tools and the procedure to extract the information from the server... rather THE procedures, because there are several, it's not like before with vaghelper, that yes it was easy.
I repeat, it's a lot! cheaper and better job to buy Dealer key and program online than to pay for that service.









They have to sell them to someone... especially if there is someone who does what is mentioned above


I really dont understand why this topic is so long:
-nothing besides prepared key dealer+Online programming is able to program keys
-even when you get secret data to prepare from Audi somehow nothing from my knowledge dont even support transponders in this keys

[Supas]

I really dont understand why this topic is so long:
-nothing besides prepared key dealer+Online programming is able to program keys
-even when you get secret data to prepare from Audi somehow nothing from my knowledge dont even support transponders in this keys

Of course... I don't know if that Q8 specifically is possible to calculate immo and sync as it is done for many others that can be done. But I wouldn't waste any more time and would order a dealer key.

[autoTkey]

Guys there are two Chinese devices! One is about 2 years old (MOFIA MLB), the other is very recent (KYDZ MLB Tool).
But it seems both are for key adding not AKL. One needs to read car and key to generate dealer data and the other (newer KYDZ) seems it can generate only by reading the working key (or so says the translator). Of course they use only their own made keys to generate the new data. Can't work with original keys.
Here are Chinese links to both of them - they are not expensive at all but it seems they only work in Chinese language:
https://www.suoyiren.cn/product/44680
https://www.suoyiren.cn/product/42499

My guess is Xhorse will soon follow them but no news about that yet.

1000703

[topclef]

Are you ready take the risk to desolder and reballing the original MCU just for a copy not original ?
if so , this device is for you

[Spiritech]

Are you ready take the risk to desolder and reballing the original MCU just for a copy not original ?
if so , this device is for you

Yep this would be my issue, desoldering the original key risking damage just to make a clone of the current by reading the ID and SK of the original. Sure it's a solution but you risk having a car with no keys!

[autoTkey]

Reballing? I didn't see this in the videos...
Even so something is better than nothing.
And there were similar situations with some Benz cars in the past. Anyway, it's still too unclear to have such discussions.
My point was that soon we will have something working available to the wide public.

[p1et]

Yep this would be my issue, desoldering the original key risking damage just to make a clone of the current by reading the ID and SK of the original. Sure it's a solution but you risk having a car with no keys!

And 90% people think we just click buttons on screen, like 'program' and it's everything is done without any risk.

That is highest level of skill to make those MLB keys with this new tool. But on the other hand, many people re-balling BGA chips 3x as big as this from MLB keys on daily basis so we can learn everything.

But having in mind, you're working on a very expensive car and you need to done it 100% accurately because otherwise the car will be non runner, makes you nerve...

[autoTkey]

If you can't do eeprom and soldering then problem is not in the tool guys. I just showed you there is a solution.

[p1et]

Well, I feel very strong in soldering but no chance I would try to desolder BGA chip from this type of key to just małe an extra key but its always a solution. When I started I couldnt solder a simple microswitch properly so we can learn everything, but soldering BGA chips is much different than solder standard chips. For standard chips you just see if the pin/legs are connected or not. For BGA you mus be 100% sure what you doing, you cant go look underneath MCU to see if all balls stick correctly. But like I said, there are peoole who does it everyday so everything is to be learned.

Im waiting for 1st person who will report here that he made an extra key and wish good luck

[autoTkey]

....although it does not look much like BGA to mee.
10013501001351
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feBJrVKQSrQ
These guys soldered the chip back to the original key in less than 6 minutes.

It seems to me the hot air will be enough.

It appears to be QFN package, not BGA. Quite the difference.

https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=591223588&q=QFN+mount&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjwmYzo2ZGDAxWGQvEDHR8eAA4Q0pQJegQICBAB&biw=1478&bih=673&dpr=1.3

[autoTkey]

...oops, duplicate post

[p1et]

Well, you might be correct. There is a guy Marcelo Korenfeld who first advertised this tool by writing if you are brave enough to desolder BGA chip from original customer's key, then you will be able to do this Audi, Porsche, RR keys so I though it's BGA but actually it's very difficult to find any real photo of that PCB but looking at those videos (I've seen them before already) it might be QFN like you say. I regret I don't have any second hand keys in stock, then I would already try playing with it.

If this is really QFN, I might have customer and I wouldnt be scared to do this but actually it seems this tool is already dead(?). For now, I only find 1 website selling it. Suddenly it dissapeared from google, only the old tool MOFEI lists. The KYDZ became ibvisible suddenly. I remember even mk3 offered this in preorder and it also disappeared. There were needed calculations by 3rd parties so probably it's gone now... If Im wrong please correct me.

[p1et]

Well I finally found perfect photo of Audi PCB and yes, you are right. This MCU looks actually easy to work with, unless it's 'glued' to the bottom, like FEM eeprom.

https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a4-b9-platform-discussion-212/fabricating-new-key-fob-case-2940561/

Please check this out. I don't know what the guy was smoking that he came up with such an idea but his work became useful lol

EDIT:

Seems there are 3 types of that MCU and 1 might be actually BGA, I'm not sure(?). Just check the adapters photo.

[vov4ik]

Early FBS4 that look like FBS3 are indeed BGA... I fixed one of them after it was ran over. Delicate but doable, lots of stuff around it and underneath.
Edit: Found a page (https://totaltronics.com/mercedes-bga-key-repair/) with good photos

[autoTkey]

vov4ik - what translator are you using? You got the wrong thread, mate.

p1et - I looked at more photos. Actually I think there are many types of keys with this chip but the chip is all the same QFN type. The MOFIA and KYDZ tools both have adapters only for QFN package.
1001735

MOFIA has 3 of the same
1001730

KYDZ has also 3 but one of them has socket for easier work for the braver.
10017321001733

[vov4ik]

vov4ik - what translator are you using? You got the wrong thread, mate.

I did, just tired, can’t delete though so just left it hanging.

As for the topic, to me the solution seems to be not mature, one tool malfunction and the car becomes akl, I’d hold off for more feedback.

[autoTkey]

Apparently the manufacturers are also on similar state of mind because I haven't seen any of both tools offered outside China and most importantly - translated in English.
But stay tuned, obviously it is very very close to 100% ready. One thing worries me and it's not the malfunctioning as it is very unlikely.
It could be the online calculation server which is the problem that is holding the tools for selling abroad.

[Spiritech]

Some Chinese sellers have started reselling into non china markets. One of my regular suppliers started offering it the other day. I don't get enough call for MLB evo keys to move beyond my current work flow of dealer key + odis

[autoTkey]

More info here:
https://www.cnautokeys.com/products/cnp189
Obviously software is in English.
Need to buy tokens to decrypt the data from the key - $50 for each calculation.

The IC in the key is fairly easy to reach, desolder and solder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3EWPyBQDjg

[p1et]

Yup, I've seen all the recent videos Cnautokeys released and it looks really comfortable to work with this MCU. I think I'm gonna buy it, however no aftermarket keys available for this system yet and OEM are expensive. Price of OEM key + token + our work and it will be equal to dealership price. However I'm not sure but I think second hand keys are also possible to renewe and reprogram - something like Benz NEC keys.

[autoTkey]

No option for renew so far. Only clean OEM keys can work. But my guess is soon will be released aftermarket replacement keys.
If they use their own server to decrypt the data from the original key it will be a reliable solution for add key service.
But if they rely on some VAG server I would expect it would die in the near future like VAG helper. But I can't check this information yet.

[p1et]

Yes Im also worried they use some VAG server and all this will be useless in a short time.

[p1et]

Can anyone tell me if those MLB keys are readable by common transponder machines, KD-X2, xhorse vvdi mini for example? I have one second hand, disassembled it and wanted to desolder and resolder MCU just to see how it's done but after carefully disassembly and before touching MCU, i scanner the key and its not readable. No sign of pcb damage so I dont know actually if if was faulty before or this key cant be read by those devices? Csn anyone tell me please? Thx

[autoTkey]

No, it's not readable. Maybe only Lonsdor could read it as with it's latest update it supports key add by OBD for this system... Not sure about AVDI key inspector, too...
But so far I'm 100% sure only that the MLB devices (KYDZ MOFIA) can recognize them.

[vov4ik]

Tried KD/XH/Autel on a new mlb pair - not readable with those..
Update: Londsor does not read them as well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[autoTkey]

News are that Xhorse has brought this function to their portfolio and will even offer a dedicated key for it.
No need to desolder anything, they say.

10161161016117
XHORSE VVDI MLB tool

It will be available soon and will cost "nothing" (100-150 USD).
No details about tokens, yet.

[p1et]

I did Audi A4 B9 with KYDZ tool, all good.

[Spiritech]

I did Audi A4 B9 with KYDZ tool, all good.


Good to hear, been trying to sell keys but most people take the OEM key option once explained it seems.

[autoTkey]

Today Xhorse released VVDI2 update to support MLB platform.

[dwilcox]

Can the new VVDI2 update work with Audi 4H0959754EC aftermarket key, all keys lost?

[vov4ik]

Can the new VVDI2 update work with Audi 4H0959754EC aftermarket key, all keys lost?

754 has been around for a while. It would be encrypted bcm2 in newer cars. It is supported for a while now and there is a solder-less adapter for it too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dwilcox]

"754 has been around for a while. It would be encrypted bcm2 in newer cars. It is supported for a while now and there is a solder-less adapter for it too."


Will this work on 2021 Audi?