Ignition query

[the_riddler]

Hall in dissy can do this when they get "HOT" and so can amplifiers as they get "HOT"....

[cresad67]

Hi

Thanks for the replies. I know parts can get hot when they're working , the problem I'm having is that even after replacment it's still doing it. Here are a couple of pics to try and clarify the type in my car.

This is the coil setup , the red piece shows the regulator in place.


This is the dissi with the magnetic pick-up/sensor in place under the rotor arm


Like I said the coil / ignitor / regulator has been changed 4 times with 4 different ones ( one off a running car ) the pick-up has been changed for a new one I had , the HT leads have been changed , there's no relay in the wiring - runs straight from the ignition switch. There is 12v running to the coil at all times , but you can watch the spark fade out. This is the bit that's getting to me. I havn't been able to do anything this week as my back went out. Might try to refit the points set-up to see if that solves it , was just wondering if anyone on here had come across something simmilar / had any ideas.

Adam

[the_riddler]

if you have a scope then you can test, pick up in dissy,

as explained before these pick ups "Hall" can fail when they get hot..

Does it run..then fail...after a period of time....run..then fail ??

if so it sounds like a faulty Hall sensor in dissy..

[Meat-Head]

Hi

Thanks for the replies. I know parts can get hot when they're working , the problem I'm having is that even after replacment it's still doing it. Here are a couple of pics to try and clarify the type in my car.

This is the coil setup , the red piece shows the regulator in place.


This is the dissi with the magnetic pick-up/sensor in place under the rotor arm


has been changed 4 times with 4 different ones ( one off a running car ) . There is 12v running to the coil at all times , but you can watch the spark fade out. had any ideas.

if you have a scope then you can test, pick up in dissy,
.

*THANKS* the_riddler *THANKS* For pointing that out *THANKS*
wish i had thought of that *THANKS*

If you try running off the points, you may find due to an imbalance
in a primary winding - may or may not - suck more "I'' 's

Does this vehicle have a trash-gauge?
Do you have a haynes wiring diagramme?
Do you hear the sound of horses running through the night?
Do you ever wounder what is chasing them?

[cresad67]

Yea , I'll drop the points dissi and coil back on on monday , in between fitting new front springs to the mother-in-laws galaxy.

It never rains.

Adam

[gregk]

On initial reading of the thread I was going to say ignition amplifier [ignitor] but as you have changed all the units and still have problem - do you replace the coil and igniter and balast resistor in one pack? or indyvidualy? I would look very closely at the polarity of the cables between igniter balast and coil. How did you check 12v at the coil with multimeter or test lamp/probe? As I'm sure balast resitor should be reducing coil voltage to 9volts [i think can't remember now] if balast not doing it's job it will put too much voltage to coil make it very hot and spark dies. Same goes if you got reversed polarity on coil connectors it will run but it can overheat the coil and make it run hot in some cases it will start failing when engine is reved but will not lose all the spark just make the engine run bad.

[BeianM]

We used to fit ballast coils to Marina GT's to solve cold start problems. The standard 12v system wasn't up to the high compression on a cold morning. The whole idea of the ballast is to feed a 9volt coil with 12volt to get a good spark at startup, As the ballast heats up the volts drop to 9volt & the spark reduces with the volts. So you will see 12v at thee feed to the ballast but it should reduce to 9v at the coil & stay there. If the ballast is duff then you could be seeing less volts & the spark will die. So make sure the coil is rated at 9v & not 12v or it will give a poor spark. If it is not coil or ballast then you need a replacement amp for the distributor. You may do better with a electronic points replacement for the old distributor if you can find one.

[cresad67]

Hi

I have been doing a bit of both , changing seperate parts and as a unit. I've got 3 full units , coil , regulator and igniter , and a spare coil - one of the units is on a running car that I 'borrowed'.

I was testing the voltage with a lamp. Thinking about it , I'll have to look at the polarity as we've come across that before.

From memory - on mine , from the car , you've got 2 wires ( + & - ) going to the coil and 1 ( + ) going to the regulator. The other side of the regulator goes to 1 of the connections on the coil. I'll have to check they are all going to the right places , I do have the wiring diagrams from my car and the cars that the dissi set-up came from which helps a bit.

Adam

[gregk]

I would have tought you should only have 1 power supply wire going to v + on the coil and it be a wire from balast resistor that way ballast will do it's job. If you got another 12volt wire going directly to coil it will by pass balast resistor and it will not do it's job. How hot is your coil when engine cuts out? can you keep your hand on it with out it burning your hand? They do get warm whilst working but I wouldn't of tought it would get too warm/hot after 20min operation. Where abouts in brum are you? I'm in oldbury.

[Meat-Head]

I would have tought you should only have 1 power supply wire going to v + on the coil and it be a wire from balast resistor that way ballast will do it's job.

That's a point, in the photo, where is the '50' terminal. Bit pointless having a ballast resistor and nothing to 'trigger' it.

OFF TOPIC:-

There is a MKI VW Gulf that has fuel injection and POINTS!

HTH

Meat.

[gregk]

OFF TOPIC:-

There is a MKI VW Gulf that has fuel injection and POINTS!

HTH

Meat.

I can't say I remember it but as Mk1 golf used K jetronic mechanical injection I would say that it is very likely as if I remember correctly no part of injection rely on ignition trigger, well maybe with exception of triggering fuel pump relay unlike new cars.

More off topic.
Vw scirocco 1.6 [carb] c reg 1986 Replaced ignition switch with genuine unit. Turn ignition On couple of times quickly and engine started without actually cranking the engine [starter never engaged] it was really bizarre. Never got a chance to investigate further as customer wasn't bothered by it. I think it was combination of worn out carb and very loose engine.

[Meat-Head]

More off topic.
. Turn ignition On couple of times quickly and engine started without actually cranking the engine [starter never engaged]

MORE AND MORE OFF TOPIC:-

Yes this is a confirm rumor Mark II Gulf, what happens is when the ignition is turned off ("points open") the field collapses in the primary winding, makes a spark, which then if your quick enough, then gives enough downward trushing pressure, to repeat the experiment making the engine, you, do run, run, you do run run.

Think the best thing would be on original thread

1) Upload a wiring diagramme - hope some member can read or write on here

2) Find a member nearby who cares

3) Try a sideward facing bulb - 5x Sam's and use this to help locate the fault.

[cresad67]

Hi

The wires that are used on the electronic coil set-up are the same ones/original that were used on the points set-up.

I've attached 2 files the RX30 one is the original car wireing , the second one MS112 is the diagram for the car that the electronic set-up came from for the 5ME engine ( I've only uploaded the diagrams covering the ignition - too big otherwise ). I 'should' be a straight swap.

I'm outside birmingham - in coventry , I did say the birmingham area.

Thanks , Adam

[gregk]

Some one correct me if I'm wrong but on RAR- MS112 1st diagram there is no voltage regulator fitted so if that is correct. You should'n use voltage regulator, and sim's like MH was right at the begining of this thread where he questioned voltage reg with electronic ignition.

[the_riddler]

getting confused here,

seems like every thing has been swaped more than once,
EXCEPT the dissy????
is that correct?????????