Bulld0gs Liverpool Thread

[Bulld0g]

Normal service has been resumed

[milkybarkid]

united of the 80s? come on lads we used to win the fa cup every other year as well as finishing runners up in the league always top 5 you lot will be lucky to avoid relegation. I bet last sunday seems along time ago. by the way that fat fella in the towel ye were critising earlier in the thread just scored a f888888 peach.

[dctyper]

i cant wait to see motd, i think im gonna cry when i watch it. stupid team

[opsmonkey]

united of the 80s? come on lads we used to win the fa cup every other year

err no you didn't you won it twice in the 80's

as well as finishing runners up in the league

always top 5

err.. once again.. WRONG.. you were fighting relegation in 86.. and since when has 11th twice in a row and 8th qualified as runners up or top 5

you lot will be lucky to avoid relegation.

we are fifth.. hardly relegation material

I bet last sunday seems along time ago.

No it doesn't, it will do for you though as you were totally outplayed

by the way that fat fella in the towel ye were critising earlier in the thread just scored a f888888 peach.

Shame he fails to do it on the big stages for you

Any more rubbish you want shooting down in flames just ask

[rapscallion]

So it appears the knives are out once again for the pervasively criticised Liverpool manager, Rafael Benitez.
As if it wasn't annoying enough that national media sources seem intent on creating an ill-informed ideology about the Spanish manager; more and more of his own supporters look to be jumping on the bandwagon aswell.
Despite picking up exactly the same amount of points Manchester United did at this stage last year, it would seem "supporters" just cant be arsed to wait for all 38 games to be played anymore, before deciding that the title is over.
I never realised football was such a predictable sport and was so black and white.
Rafa's transfer history with Liverpool is the current stick of choice to beat the manager with, and once again the usual misleading headlines and unbalanced articles are saturating every football based website.
Not to mention forums heaving with the alarming views of some Liverpool supporters who are worryingly reveling in the negativity and outright lies that are being written about the manager.
Simply because they want Benitez out of the club.
Now this is not an article to claim Benitez is the best manager in the history of football when it comes to transfers. It is certainly not definitive. It is just a collection of details that will be added to over time, that many seem to forget or leave out of their articles or debates.
All i'm trying to do is present a slightly more balanced version of his transfer history with Liverpool; compared to the laughable one-sided rubbish spouted by experts and lauded by insanse supporters, too lazy to do a bit of research for themselves.
Statistics can easily disprove many of the myths that surround the Liverpool manager.
Here are a few of them. Feel free to twist them to suit your own reality.

?20million+ (1)
Still Here: (1)
1st team: Torres

?15-20million: (4)
Still Here: (3)
1st team: Mascherano, Aquilani, Johnson
Sold On: (1)
1st team: Keane

?10-15million: (2)
Still Here: (1)
1st team: Babel
Sold On: (1)
1st team: Alonso

?5-10million: (12)
Still Here: (7)
1st team: Agger, Skrtel, Reira, Kuyt, Lucas, Reina, Dossena,
Sold on: (5)
1st team: Garcia, Morientes, Crouch, Bellamy, Pennant

?2-5million: (4)
Still Here: (2)
1st team: Benayoun, Cavalieri
Sold On: (2)
1st team: Sissoko, Arbeloa

?0-2million (21)
Still Here: (10)
1st Team: Kygriakos, Itandje
Reserve: Insua, Ngog, El Zhar, Kelly, Martin, Palsson, Cooper, Saric,
Sold On: (11)
1st team: Josemi, Nunez, Carson, Gonzalez, Kromkamp, Paletta
Reserve: Barragan, Hobbs, Idrizaj, Ajdarevic, Leto

Free Transfer: (24)
Still Here: (16)
1st Team: Voronin, Aurelio, Degan,
Reserve: Plessis, Sanchez-Ayala, Hansen, Gulacsi, Amoo, Dalla Valle, Flora, Mendy, Weijl, Buchtmann, Poloskei (loan), Bruna, Mihaylov
Sold On: (8)
1st Team: Pellegrino, Fowler, Zenden
Reserve: Roque, Anderson (swap), Padelli (loan), Antwi, Crowther,

Unknown/Undisclosed: (9)
Still Here: (8)
Reserve: Bouzanis, San Jose Dominguez, Duran, Pacheco, Mavinga, Kackanaklic, Brouwer, Simon,
Sold On: (1)
Reserve: Huth

Players signed by Rafa: 77
1st Team Players: 37
Reserve Players: 40
Players still at the club: 48
1st Team Players: 19
Reserve Players: 29

At this point it's interesting to note that many claim Benitez has sold 66 players since his time at Anfield and "most of them have been at a loss", and "this proves he is useless in the transfer market".
Rafa may have sold 66 players, but of that figure, only 29 have been players Benitez has signed himself, and sold at a profit of around ?25million. But that "reality" doesn't make for a very sensational headline, now does it?

Players sold on by Rafa: 66
Players signed by another manager and sold by Rafa: 37
Players bought and sold by Rafa: 29

Profit: ?37.6 million
1st Team Players: (9)
Alonso +20.0, Carson +5.4, Crouch +4.0, Sissoko +2.6, Gonzalez +1.5, Bellamy +1.5, Leto +1.2, Arbeloa +0.9, Nunez +0.5
Reserve Players: (2)
Barragan +0.4, Anderson +0.25

Loss: ?12.5 million
1st Team Players: (3)
Pennant -7.0, Morientes -3.0, Garcia -2.5,
Reserve Players: (0)

Even: (13) - ?0.000
1st Team Players: (7)
Fowler, Zenden, Pellegrino, Paletta, Josemi (swapped for) Kromkamp, Keane(with contract triggers taking effect)
Reserve Players: (6)
Idrizaj, Ajdarevic, Roque, Padelli (loan), Antwi, Crowther

Unknown: (2)
Reserve Players:
Hobbs, Huth

[rapscallion]

Media Myths: Rafa Benitez and His Transfer History With Liverpool Football Club

by Jamie Ward Jamie Ward

Columnist
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Columnist Written on March 27, 2009

(Photo by Alex Livesey/Getty Images)
Myth: "fable, fiction, lie; a widespread but untrue or erroneous story or belief."
There appears to be a trend growing amongst media outlets, ?expert? pundits, and rival supporters who strive to ensure a negative air surrounds Liverpool Football Club and more commonly its manager, Rafa Benitez.
It seems he can do no right in the eyes of some people?his own supporters included?and more false claims appear every week that serve only to derail him from his quest of rebuilding Liverpool Football Club.
As more and more newspapers churn out sensational headline after headline and "expert" television pundits spout opinion as fact; the more people are brainwashed by these stories and the further from reality a situation will get.
Many lazy debaters claim their opinion to be a pragmatic truth whilst they simply recycle misleading newspaper propaganda as their own knowledge or belief.
Biased supporters who choose to jump on the slander bandwagon when it involves a rival team are common place, and this only adds to the ever-growing ideology of a story perceived as fact.

Ideology: ?a system that derives ideas exclusively from sensation or a set of ideas proposed by the dominant group of a society to all members of this society.?
?Organizations that strive for power will try to influence the ideology of a society to become closer to what they want it to be. Organizations and other groups (e.g. Media Outlets) try to influence people by broadcasting their opinions.?
One such myth which seems to have appeared recently has been the same tired line about Rafa Benitez and his transfers since his time at Liverpool.
You will hear people claiming things like:
?A larger proportion of Rafa's signings have been expensive and poor.?
This does of course depend on how a person interprets the words expensive and poor?the latter obviously being down to their personal opinion of a player.
If someone wants to use the barometer of anything over a million pounds to be expensive and any player other than Messi or Ronaldo is considered poor; then anyone will struggle to argue against that logic?me included.
We can easily address the ?expensive? part of this particular argument:
(Numbers in brackets are players still at the club)




?20+ million: 1 (1)
Torres
?15-20 million: 2 (1)
Mascherano, Keane
?10-15 million: 2 (2)
Babel, Alonso
?5-10 million: 14 (9)
Dossenna, Riera, Agger, Skrtel, Reina,Benayoun,Leiva, Kuyt, Pennant, Crouch, Bellamy, Sissoko, Morientes, Garcia
?0-5 million: 47 (36)
Degan, Cavelieri, Ngog, Plessis, Insua, Leto, Itandje, Voronin, Arbeloa, El Zhar, Aurelio, Palletta, Fowler, Kromkamp, Barragan, Nunez, Zenden, Gonzalez, Carson, Pellegrino, Josemi, Martin, Antwi, Hobbs, Miki Roque, Gulacsi, Padelli, Anderson, Poloskei, Crowther, Hansen, Saric, Ayala, Weijl, Blanco, Flora, Mendy, Ajdarevic, Simon, Bouzanis, Nemeth, Pacheco, Palsson, Brouwer, Dur?n, Huth, Dom?nguez.


It is easy to see that the majority of Rafa?s signings have been below the ?10 million mark and nothing like the fabrication that he has bought mostly ?expensive? signings. It is also interesting to note that a large proportion are teenagers bought for the future of the club and may not be on alot of people's radars.
With 49 of his 66 signings still at the club, it means the selling on fee cannot yet be properly forecast and it is near impossible to fully determine if the original fee paid for each player is expensive.

Here are some more comments and claims made about Rafael Benitez:
?He has bought 53 players for ?190 million and sold 56 for ?108 million, clearly a loss of ?82 million proves he doesn?t have a clue in the transfer market.?
I think the easiest way to explain this would be to just show you a full rundown of Rafael Benitez? signings since he joined Liverpool in June 2004:





Players bought in by Benitez: 66
Players still at the club: 49
First Team: 18
Alonso, Reina, Agger, Aur?lio, Kuyt, Arbeloa, Mascherano, Lucas, Torres, Itandje, Benayoun, Babel, Skrtel, Degen, Dossena, Cavalieri, Ngog, Riera.
Reserve Team: 22
El Zhar, Ins?a, Palsson, Brouwer, Dur?n, Huth, Dom?nguez, Pacheco, Nemeth, Plessis, Hansen, Saric, Ayala, Weijl, Blanco, Flora, Mendy, Ajdarevic, Simon, Bouzanis, Crowther, Poloskei
Out on Loan: 9
Andriy Voronin, Jermaine Pennant, Sebastian Leto, David Martin, Godwin Antwi, Jack Hobbs, Miki Roque, Peter Gulacsi, Paul Anderson

A figure of 49 players bought by Rafa are still playing for the club with the majority (29) bought as youth players for the reserve team?with the idea for future revenue if they perform to their potential. It will also save the club a great deal of money if they turn out to be superstars worth a large transfer fee.
From that 49 figure, there are 18 still playing for the first team and contributing to the clubs success on a very large scale?with the majority of them being priced by many as a greater figure than when the players were initially bought by Rafa.
From the nine players out on loan, only two are established players with the other seven being young reserve players gaining experience at other clubs?with the hope of either returning to Liverpool?s first team or making a profit to invest in future transfers, a policy utilised by many big clubs.

Players Sold On by Benitez: 56
Players Bought by Other Managers and Sold on by Benitez: 39
Players Bought and Sold on by Rafa Benitez: 17


For me, this is the key point from which poorly informed debaters? opinions collapse. Most propaganda articles or rival supporters will wildly claim that Rafa has sold "56" players and made little money in return.
They claim the ?majority? of the "56" players the Liverpool manager has sold on have been at a loss and ?proves? his failings in the transfer market. This is such a misleading statement to make that I really don?t know how people can still get away with it, let alone acctually believe it.
For starters, Benitez has sold 39 players bought by other Liverpool managers.
Benitez cannot be held accountable for selling a player at a loss when; Benitez was not the one who identified the player as a target in the first place; sanctioned the over-inflated transfer fee when the player was first purchased.
You can only really judge him on the players he has bought and sold since he has been at the club and this brings the true figure down to just 17 players.

Profit: 7
Carson +2.25, Barragan +0.43, Sissoko +2.6, Crouch +4.0, Gonzalez +2.0, Bellamy +1.5, Nunez +0.5
Loss: 6
Garcia -2.0, Morientes -3.3, Palletta -0.8, Josemi (swapped for) Kromkamp -0.25, Idrizaj -0.19, Keane -3.0 (could be even less depending on contract triggers)
Even: 4
Pellegrino, Zenden, Fowler, Padelli (all four players were brought in and moved on for a free transfer)

So the true extent of Rafa?s failings in the transfer market is just six players from 17, coming with a loss of just under ?10 million within four and a half years?the most expensive loss being just ?3.3 million; nothing like the losses achieved by other established Premier League managers who manage to avoid the media abuse storm.
Hopefully that is one media myth that's now been eradicated

[milkybarkid]

well said i for 1 hope raffa stays at anfield for the next ten years!!!!!!

[nders]

agreed. Benitez "ownage" . rostermonster

[thered]

united of the 80s? come on lads we used to win the fa cup every other year as well as finishing runners up in the league always top 5 you lot will be lucky to avoid relegation. I bet last sunday seems along time ago. by the way that fat fella in the towel ye were critising earlier in the thread just scored a f888888 peach.

when was that m8 i remember winning the fa cup twice and finishing second twice but every other year not a chance i remember finishing bottom half in the league twice and we lost the league cup final once

on our day under ron atkinson we were a very good side but were very inconsistent with a team full of pi55heads and at no time did we challenge seriously for the title apart from when we won our first 10 games on the bounce in 1985 only to finish the second half of the season with relegation form

[boomer39]

well said i for 1 hope raffa stays at anfield for the next ten years!!!!!!

just a note, it took rafa 3 seasons to reach 2 champs league finals. how long did it take taggert???

[dctyper]

why dont the united fans go to there own, not so popular thread

[thered]

why dont the united fans go to there own, not so popular thread

cos its ~~~~ing boring we dont have as much too moan about as you lot

[dctyper]

your right, united are boring

[koppit]

good to see a bit of reasoned debate back on the board, well said rapscallion, couldnt have put it better meself but i might have used fewer words. hope the fingers have recovered. it would do us all to remember m u had at least four managers before old red nose and he was one game from the p45 in 88. sadly ?20mil doesnt go far these days, if rafa had bought one top player a season we would still be as far away as we are now and the disgruntled would still be calling for his head. the owners need to dig deep and invest in two or three top signings before its to late and our few good players get p8888d off and leave.

[dctyper]

your right mate. there is a massive gap at the mo