Trim Files for CAT Caterpillar Injectors

[jdawg]

some more trim files, not sure if they are doubles. From a current disk.

[Underpsi]

That is what CAT tells you^.NOT!!!!!!
I build injectors... you would think the 100's of 1000's of injectors I sell to drag racers in flordia to onhighway trucks to ice road truckers there would be a difference in fuel flow.

2000hp drag truck, how is a stock/factory/reman injector gonna put out enough cc's?

The difference you're referring to has nothing to do with the trim codes. He was stating that trim codes cannot make 100% difference in flow.

If you build injectors you'd obviously know that trim codes do not make a significant enough difference to make a huge amount of horsepower like 2000hp.

Obviously when you are doing them you're changing/ honing the tips and I hope other work as well if you know what you're doing.

[Far_Call]

More EXTRUDE honing and what a destructive way to add fuel!!
I've seen many Extrude honed tips and thrown many in the bin that have been sent to me to salvage.
Mind you in USA the people who extrude hone make a lot of money and they rarely get complaints about their tips. (mostly because no one knows they are Junk)
Balancing Extrude honed tips is to extrude them to a point where all six flow an equal amount of fuel at a defined Pressure and Temperature. The problem with extrude honing to the magnitude required for 2000HP results in Nozzle orifice deformation to a degree the spray pattern and flow from all Nozzle orifice vary wildly.. Washed Liners.. Hot spots on liners. seized pistons.

Trimming was a patented method derived By Cat to electronically adjust the injectors to bring them all into line due to the variabilities derived form manufacture.

The % of gain in HP or actual fuel flow by way of altering the Trim will vary depending on the Nozzle Total Orifice size, Engine RPM, Actuator, and internal pressure rise proportional to Plunger velocity.

[Far_Call]

Injector trim codes are for idle calibration ONLY no 100% or 1000% percent flow or horse power gains.

Unfortunately this is not quite the case to some degree.
Incorrect trims Can cause rough Idle.
However a simple change of trim can smooth out the idle but cause Low or high fuel at elevated RPM resulting in vibrations through the truck as the RPM and or load is increased.

The Trim not only affects the fuel delivery at Idle but though its whole cycle.
This is why you cant adjust the Trim on a Dyno in the engine and still expect to get a smooth ride from Idle to High idle.

Bench testing the Injectors and allocating Trim numbers to them whilst testing across varying RPM and load points is the only way to do it effectively.

[Far_Call]

So when I had my truck on alligators dyno and it made another 150hp jus from tweaking the codes how do you explain?

WOW!!! Just with Trim Numbers?

Ok lets be real here for a min.. The injectors you had must have been on the lowest possible trim numbers or was it set to the lowest before the dyno so that when they were then changed to the highest it showed 150HP gain?
The total Gain attainable can be as much as 150HP depending on many factors and the most influential being the Nozzle orifice size.

Acert Trims on 625 or 550 will be lucky to gain 40HP due to the way the factory trims them in the top 30% whereas the older 3406 and C15 etc were trimmed mostly in the 50% range leaving a bigger window to trim up.

The Trim algo uses an and encrypted 4 didget code between 1000 and 9999. However not all possibilities are used on each ECM so for example a C15 will only take @ 1/2 of the theoretical 8999 possible trim numbers. these can then be divided into groups and reduced into some 460 groups. these groups then can be used to Calibrate an injector to flow across the whole RPM and load range possible.
These is NO Magical numbers as I have tested every single one and plotted them. However there is a large window from the lowest to the highest but in 95% of case Injectors are Trimmed from the factory Mid range in the case of a C15 for example so you wont see the HP gain of the magnitude above.

However if we fit a larger nozzle than listed in the Flash file the engine will produce more HP and we can then trim down the injector to reduce its output and lower HP. Depending on the size we chose we could then be trimming in the low 15% of the Injector trim range allowing for a possible 85% Gain by way of Trim allocation.

Most people who claim to do these magical things do their trimming on the dyno. we can all do that and I have done that. BUT its simply bastardising the injector to get it "Close" well as close as you can in an engine. The correct method is to Calibrate the injector on the bench prior to installation and any variation thereafter is mechanical and as such the injector should not be altered to compensate for the mechanical defect.

[Underpsi]

I was wondering when you were going to chime in on this. Excellent explanation! I think that will clarify it a little better for them.

[Alligator]

[QUOTE=Far_Call;1836696]

The Trim not only affects the fuel delivery at Idle but though its whole cycle.
This is why you cant adjust the Trim on a Dyno in the engine and still expect to get a smooth ride from Idle to High idle.

QUOTE]
WRONG!!

[Alligator]

"Ok lets be real here for a min.. The injectors you had must have been on the lowest possible trim numbers or was it set to the lowest before the dyno so that when they were then changed to the highest it showed 150HP gain?
The total Gain attainable can be as much as 150HP depending on many factors and the most influential being the Nozzle orifice size."
"More EXTRUDE honing and what a destructive way to add fuel!!"
your personal prefrence thats probably because you were re-using the original nozzel... However they still meet cat engineer standard specs. Do you have those? I do.
"The % of gain in HP or actual fuel flow by way of altering the Trim will vary depending on the Nozzle Total Orifice size, Engine RPM, Actuator, and internal pressure rise proportional to Plunger velocity".
This ^ is wrong as well, Every caterpillar orfice on all 3406E models are .008. (Should never be changed).
If you change the orfice size: you lose weight and inertia. < This means its NFG! Ask a mechanical engineer or me =split tips.
I've seen your posts Far_Call/ Greg/ Western Diesel&Performance. On Truckers Page. You leave alot of misleading Information. for eg truckers page! "The Injector ECODE is not the trim" Well in fact it is. Eg. 3389<ecode>
0-9
1-8
2-7
3-6
4-5
5-4
6-3
7-2
8-1
9-0
ecode 3389 = 6610
Your obviously on the right page if you wanna get educated!

Caterpillar EUI***8217;s using ACERT injectors use 5 separate injection events all controlled electronically.
1. Pilot Injection
2. Main Injection Step One
3. Main Injection Step Two
4. Main Injection Step Three
5. Post Injection

Rate shaped unit injectors can be adapted to use three different injection rate profiles to achieve either good fuel economy (lean), good emissions (clean), or optimum power (mean).
Trim Codes
Since variations between flow rates of injectors can occur due to manufacturing tolerances, identical injectors can deliver different quantities of fuel despite the using the same length of PWM signal. This produces emission problems and cylinder imbalance conditions. To correct this condition, manufacturers will flow test all injectors and compare them against a nominal standard value. Depending on whether the injector flows more or less fuel, a numerical value is applied to the injector. This trim code or E trim value is entered into ECM injector data where adjustments to fuel flow can be made electronically.

[Alligator]

This is data from a random acert file:
B10000000F23C200010101C20000000000000000010A400002 400103D0051FF86FF87240110130300C354135303934333138364239020300
C0800001000000010001000000010102410101F3F803044B5E 71834201F3F801421106080A09
C0800001000000020001000000010102410101F3F803044B5E 71834201F3F801421100030606
C0800001000000030001000000010102410101F3F803044B5E 71834201F3F8014211190B060C
C0800001000000040001000000010102410101F3F803044B5E 71834201F3F8014211110C0606
C0800001000000050001000000010102410101F3F803052632 3F58644201F3F8014211F9FCFBF8FC
C0800001000000060001000000010102410101F3F803052632 3F58644201F3F80142110000000000
C0800001000000070001000000010102410101F3F803010042 01F3F801421100
C0800001000000080001000000010102410101F3F803022632 4201F3F80142110000
C0800001000000090001000000010102410101F3F803010042 01F3F801421100

The part of the binary data string that I underline/bold, is the injector serial number. The next 4 lines are solenoid data. pilot, main, post, & coil.
the 5 lines after that are the fuel injection performance.
Thus being said this piece of <Data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ata>
that can be opened up in a program that it was written for and you will see its a fuel map.

[Gear head]

Any one have 5a50030277b5 trim file please?

[Alligator]

The difference you're referring to has nothing to do with the trim codes. He was stating that trim codes cannot make 100% difference in flow.

If you build injectors you'd obviously know that trim codes do not make a significant enough difference to make a huge amount of horsepower like 2000hp.

Obviously when you are doing them you're changing/ honing the tips and I hope other work as well if you know what you're doing.

Wrong^ Maybe if you new what you were doing or where you were getting your product, new what they were doing.
If you say I am wrong, thats like interuppting me while I'm doing my job. You don't see me coming to your job and kicking the dick out of your mouth.
If you are a "Mechanical Injection Technicain/Engineer" you might figure out that everthing is a factor.

[Gear head]

Ok this ist a name calling and undermining session.

[Alligator]

Gear head, someone call me a name?

I am simply stating when it comes to caterpillar EUI's I'm the guy to ask the question, not joe-blow thats rebuilding "brand new factory" injecotrs. But If you ask me a question I will mostly like not answer it as I don't want someone profiting off me. I will share information that I'm willing to. Not asked for! As you have already figured out.
I didn't call anyone names in my previous posts. It's all info.

[ashkar]

Ok this ist a name calling and undermining session.

But this is all great knowledge that nobody has shared on here on DK, now everyone knows how encode there injector ecodes! Believe me, Mr. Alligator has much knowledge that he hasnt shared.

[Gear head]

I understand why you don't want to share but it don't hurt to try.