American Gun Law

[Rodbouy]

and at least 4 that I remember in the UK of lunatics running round with guns shooting people. However the same percentage of the population does not have access to guns in the UK as they do in the US. So how does that work? That would make it worse to live in the UK with it's strict gun laws surely?

Statistics can be skewed anyway you want them to, being selective is just the start.

So you are saying the mass killing happens more here on same scale?

I doubt the moat killing is on same scale ?

But if you want to believe that our strict gun laws makes no difference what so ever then your deluded.

What is the last 4 big gun sprees in the uk? As I can only think of 4 ?

You can buy guns from Walmart (or could when I was there), or any Sunday market tbh. Been there seen that for myself. Having a gun doesn't make you a nutcase and being a nutcase who happens to own a gun doesn't make you a killer. As for the UK, you'd have to ask where the IRA etc got theirs, it wasn't down at the local Asda, it was without a license and yet they killed people all the same - licenses don't make any difference, and were they sane?.

Any death is sad, no matter how it happens.

Dont think that has anything to do with the IRA, and if you want to try and liking the IRA with what happened the other day then thats just mad.

Lets face it the IRA was a english created problem. Nothing similar to what has just went on.

[gmb45]

~~~~ing crazy, according to stastics 29200 peeps get shot to death every year in america, the 2nd amendment is it ? "we have the right to protect our property" what a load of shite, they are to far doon the road to come back on this, but something has to be done, only peeps who should have guns are farmers ( vermin control ) armed forces ( when on duty ), there should be gun clubs where peeps can use guns in a supervised enviroment, then guns are locked away in somethnig super secure, imagine living in america walking doon the street not knowing whos tooled up or not. ~~~~ing madness it is

[Shady]

Lets face it the IRA was a english created problem. Nothing similar to what has just went on.

I think that what gas is saying is that our strict gun laws didnt stop the ira, they didnt stop Derek Bird, or Raul Moat, or Michael Ryan or Thomas Hamilton.
Didnt stop Jill dando getting shot, or Yvonne Fletcher..
By putting uk population against US, and the percentage of people owning guns against US, i would say our Gun rampage ratio is higher than US.

Approximately 47 MILLION registered gun owners in US, compared to approximately 860,000 in UK.
They have roughly 50 times the amount of gun owners we have, yet only 3 times the amount of such killings (going by your figure of 12 such shootings in US and comparing against our 4 main ones of dunblane, cumbria, hungerford and Moat)

47 Million gun owners, 12 similiar shootings, 2% of said gun owners firearms used in shootings.
860000 guns, 4 similar shootings; 4% used in such shootings.

So gas is right, statistics can be made to show whatever we want. I have just shown that with a smaller population, and a smaller number of gun owners, our killings of similar nature are in fact greater that the US's, all with our strict gun controls too.

[Rodbouy]

I think that what gas is saying is that our strict gun laws didnt stop the ira, they didnt stop Derek Bird, or Raul Moat, or Michael Ryan or Thomas Hamilton.
Didnt stop Jill dando getting shot, or Yvonne Fletcher..
By putting uk population against US, and the percentage of people owning guns against US, i would say our Gun rampage ratio is higher than US.

Approximately 47 MILLION registered gun owners in US, compared to approximately 860,000 in UK.
They have roughly 50 times the amount of gun owners we have, yet only 3 times the amount of such killings (going by your figure of 12 such shootings in US and comparing against our 4 main ones of dunblane, cumbria, hungerford and Moat)

47 Million gun owners, 12 similiar shootings, 2% of said gun owners firearms used in shootings.
860000 guns, 4 similar shootings; 4% used in such shootings.

So gas is right, statistics can be made to show whatever we want. I have just shown that with a smaller population, and a smaller number of gun owners, our killings of similar nature are in fact greater that the US's, all with our strict gun controls too.

You still cant link the IRA in with such statements ? Would you inc the British army in this ?

Separate issues

Yes stats can be skewed to what ever way the person wants them to be.

But US gun laws means its way more easy to get them.

You will never stop it, but you can limit it.


Thing is, would any of these pro gun people have the same view if they got a call to say their 5 y/o baby girl or boy wont ever be coming home.

I Think not.

[Shady]

Im neither pro gun or anti gun, they have no baring in my life whatsoever (touch wood).
But the simple fact of the matter is, that our strict gun laws havent stopped such killings happening here, why you keep banging the drum against this FACT is beyond me.

[Rodbouy]

Im neither pro gun or anti gun, they have no baring in my life whatsoever (touch wood).
But the simple fact of the matter is, that our strict gun laws havent stopped such killings happening here, why you keep banging the drum against this FACT is beyond me.

Why you think the gun laws have no bearing in what happens is beyond me also.

We have had 3 of modern time, and no I dont inc Moat in this. Other wise we would have to include ever gun related instance.

At no point did i say it stops it, so could you point out to me where I said that ?

Look at the amount dead in the US v UK.

But ah suppose it must be the rest of the world thats nuts for wanting tighter gun laws.

Answer this, would you happily have the gun laws and freely available like they do in the US ?

Whos policy would you have ?

[Meat-Head]

didn't i read somewhere more people die in Ingland from road death than Emericans from gunshots?

[ecufix]

If you outlaw guns only the outlaws will have guns .

[Kalipo]

It will be very hard for anyone to change the rules on guns in america.. first of all you will have backlash from the people then there is the Bill of Rights..

The USA Bill of rights was a modified version of the then British bill of rights 1689..

no royal interference in the freedom of the people to have arms for their own defense as suitable to their class and as allowed by law

Whereas The USA version is something along the lines of "Its citizens have the right by constitution to bare arms" (not the wording of the bill).

Its not actual law.. like the British version of 1689 its the actual constitution.. which makes it very complicated to modify..

[Meat-Head]

The USA Bill of rights was a modified version of the then British bill of rights 1689.. ..

1689 - what kind of a time is that about 5:30 PM?

So, what about like here in Ingland, there was dumb laws, taxi drivers had to carry straw in the trunk of their cars, not fishing on a Sunday, illegal to commit suicide.

There were all sorted with the 19?? whatever it was named 'rid of stupid laws rule'?

[9holly5wood4]

No matter what anyone thinks they are entitled to their opinion. If he had it planned he would of done it still. I was always told "a fence only keeps the honest people out". Now i honestly think if their were FEWER gun laws that sonofabitch would have been stopped sooner by staff or teachers

[meporter]

How many innocent homeowners shot a burglar who would have shot them, if they had not owned a gun? There is no balance in USA, either way... there will be a fight to change anything. Tragedies always bring gun control into the light... 20 Chinese killed by sword??? Ban swords? Machetes? How many people die from drinking and driving? Ban either alcohol or cars or both??? We cannot stop these tragedies because we cannot predict when or where they will take place. We can train and try to prepare ourselves, but we still cannot control every situation. Nothing will change in the USA.

[Rodbouy]

Gun Deaths - 2011: Japan 11, Great Britain 8, Switzerland 34, Canada 52, Israel 58, Sweden 21, Germany 42, UNITED STATES 10,728

So as stats go per capita UK 0.00001% UK - 0.026 % US

Id say the guns laws work, but I must be wrong and should stop banging my head against FACTS.

[Canker_Canison]

I'm a little late to this debate. I'll say this now, I'm pro gun.

I used to shoot small bore rifles & pistols at a local club. Until the law was changed & clubs were closed down.

From that point in time gun crime increased in the UK. Hand guns are illegal, but I could make a single phone call & get my hands on a semi-auto pistol within 2 hours.

Gun laws in the US have been tightened. Rifles can be purchased straight away, but pistols require a 14 day waiting period. During that time a full check on the individual is made through the licensing body. If you don't pass the check, you don't get a gun.

Would somebody like to look up the amount of people on a killing spree who were shot by citizens with carry permits...before the police even arrived on the scene?
I know it's happened in texas a couple of times.
That to me is a big deterrent, the possibility that it will be a normal looking pedestrian that will stop the nutter almost as soon as they start.


Getting back to the kid who went nuts. He was being treated for mental issues, his mother knew he was being treated as she was the one who got him to the doctors. There's nothing to suggest he stopped taking his medication prior to the shooting.
Did you know that the US authorities can only hold a mentally disturbed person for 48 hours without a judgement from the courts. This is where the problems in the US really come from. They need to have better control for people who have shown a high risk to themselves or others.

There were 3 firearms in the house that could of been used. A Sig Sauer and a Glock, both handguns commonly used by police, and a military-style Bushmaster .223 M4 carbine which is a semi-auto small bore rifle. So far I've only heard of wounds relating to a rifle. I don't know if they were locked away or just kept in a cupboard.
This may come up in the investigation, but I doubt his mother would of left them laying around with a mentally unstable person in the house. As part of holding a license, guns have to be locked away when not in use.

Current debate in the US is looking at what happened with the kid. What went wrong? Could it of been avoided? Was the right level of medical help made available?

The last debate I heard was looking at insurance companies & the stigma around mental health issues. Did the cost of the help he needed go beyond that the insurance would pay out?


Guns only become a danger when mentally imbalanced people get hold of them. That's where gun control has to be tightened. But even then, if you want a gun..you can get a gun. It doesn't matter where you are in the world, guns are always available.

[Shady]

Gun Deaths - 2011: Japan 48, Great Britain 8,
.

but Japan has tighter gun laws than us.. so how come they habe 6 times as many gun deaths?