Reusing old Peugeot/Citroen remotes type 73373067B,C

[simaservis1108]

The consequences of DK making itself available to the public google search has shown itself.
The guy above me called me asking for 406 Pug remote board with virgin transponder.

Too bad it will happen to many members to loose jobs and money,because everything is explained here.
We will have to find new closed specialist forum for us.

[ninja123]

its already available, you are a member - but there wont be the type of people that you find on dk, sad i know but thats the way things are developing now

BUT, better for you being a member

[ninja123]

Hello,

Thank you for quick answer. Sorry for my delay, I've been absent for a while.
SO, if I understood correctly, I have to buy new Virgin transponder with electronics and learn it with PP2000. No help if I use only virgin transponder and used electronics, right?
I have googled a lot, original parts are expensive :
Peugeot Genuine Part Number: 6554RAAdvanced Keys: AKRM111
Hickleys: HVRM79
NW Keys: PUG-NWKS37

There are some chinese remote fobs on ebay, but all of them have pictures of older PCBs with copper coil instead of ID46 transponder and they cost around 20$. I presume they don't fit...
Does anyone knows or can send me a link to PM so I can buy new electronics and virgin transponder?

Thnax in advance.

WHY DO YOU WANT A PM WITH WHERE TO BUY? You have just listed some of the main suppliers, so buy from there, there is no cheap way, just call your local auto locksmith, or are you intending to have a career change?

ninja

[obdsystems]

Hello guys,

I'm new to forum, I've seen this thread and according to my knowledge I think you can give me some clues.
I have a problem with my Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 2001 yr DW10ATED .
What happened: my keyfob remote housing was very old and it was opening itself from time to time, but with no accidents. Few days ago I went to car wash and guys there lost my remote electronics PCB. Fortunately the transponder was there so I could start and drive the car.
Now, I bought some old remote keyfob from Peugeot 307 2001 year.
I compared transponder chips and both had PCF7936AS chip inside. My problem is that I don't know what type of remote PCB was in my original key remote. In this one I bought, I see it is 73373067b circuit board. There are also 73373067a, 73373067c and 73373067d boards.
My problem is that remote is not working. I tested simply if it works (electronics itself) : on multimeter, battery is in good condition, 2.98 V. When I press some button, there is small voltage drop, meaning it is sending something on 433 MHz.
Now, I tried all standard procedures for Plip resync but no luck.
Finally, my question is: how can I make this remote work? Will Planet 2000 key reprogramming help? Is there a way to find out what model of board was in my original key? Maybe difference in a,b,c,d suffixes is source of problem so I can not resync remote?
Any advice is appreciated, thanx in advance.

My advice is go pay a locksmith. It'll cost you the same amount as filling your petrol tank, twice say

so not much -

[autofan1965]

its already available, you are a member - but there wont be the type of people that you find on dk, sad i know but thats the way things are developing now

BUT, better for you being a member

How is possible to become a member?

[djolemag]

WHY DO YOU WANT A PM WITH WHERE TO BUY? You have just listed some of the main suppliers, so buy from there, there is no cheap way, just call your local auto locksmith, or are you intending to have a career change?

ninja

Hi, sorry for delay, been absent. First of all, my respect to all members of DK.

As you said, I don't have intention for career change.
It's just matter of someone's nature. I'm undergraduated engineer and also HB in Economics, with scope on IT. Have 20+ years of computer programming experience in may fields. Been done electronics for many years, today it's just a hobby. Last few years I'm doing consulting and technical support for few companies with main focus on NFC (Near Field Communication) and RFID technologies etc.
Enough introducing, I just wanted to make it clear why I came here.
It is a matter of human's nature. I always wanted to know how stuff works, no matter what is about. Same thing happened here, in this situation.

The easiest way is go to locksmith and do a new remote. It costs a lot in Serbia, some people here can confirm. It is relative to average salary in Serbia,let's say like this: Avg salary = 360 Euro , new plip+key+labour = 120 Euro , so it is 1/3 of average monthly wages, for car which is old more than 10 yrs.
Now, it is not a matter of money only. I can afford it, if needed, not a big deal. But everyone would try to solve problem as cheap as possible, so common. I have last resort to go to locksmith and do that. For the very same money I can install aftermarket alarm which will do the same stuff or even more... Nevermind that, I will decide what to do...
Problem is in the following subject: I saw this thread with title "Reusing old Peugeot/Citroen remotes type 73373067B,C" so I started to read it. Basically, we speak here about NXP's (or Philips) PCF7936 chip, which is 125 kHz Hitag2 chip. Datasheets are available on web in NXP's public area.
So, since I'm not doing locksmithing or car programming etc but I have friends who does some of that stuff, I have access to diagnostic equipment etc, I wanted to see if it is possible to overcome problem other way, like for example old remote and new transponder or similar. It was just sort of "project challenge".

Other reason is a trust. Here in Serbia, many people claim themselves as "master" and they usually say they can solve any problem. Truth is very different. I asked few people and only one had answer. So, my apologies to simaservis1108 member, I think I can remember we spoke over the phone, he had straight answer btu the price was little over my expectations.
My assumptions was based on common practice here: if something is not working, change everything until you fix it. So I thought maybe it is not needed to change everything, maybe just transponder and code it via PP2000. It is the one who gives a seed for rolling code to remote, I thought. Well, that is what I thought. Now I see that remote has to be "blank" too, so BSI can learn it and they can sync their rolling codes sequence. Remote PCB has few components: one MCU, one crystal, few passive components, battery and buttons. That maeks me think that rolling seed is inside MCU's EEPROM (or some part of memory), so if you can't get into MCU (usually you can't, there is bootloader, maybe custom protocol etc) then you're stuck with it as a brick electronics.
Third and last, I was wondering about second-hand remotes on Ebay. Why someone sell it if it is not reusable? And what about Chinese clones? They are pretty cheap (20$ compared to 80$ for genuine) , but definitely they are not the same or even close to genuine part's design. They have coil which impersonates as transponder, which is in fact only physical transport layer of 125 kHz, while "chip" (PCF7936) state machine is in some small MCU. That makes me no confidence of using such solution.

I use this occasion to explain my reasons for posting her and following this thread. Also, once again, my apologies if someone had bad impression about my first post/answer.

FInally:

The consequences of DK making itself available to the public google search has shown itself.
The guy above me called me asking for 406 Pug remote board with virgin transponder.

Too bad it will happen to many members to loose jobs and money,because everything is explained here.
We will have to find new closed specialist forum for us.

I doubt about that. You will always be few steps ahead if you improve your knowledge and skills. Of course, experience is something most valuable and none can get it from few DIY tutorials on YT or some forum. Finally, you are selling mostly your knowledge and experience to your customers. Only few percents of price is the fact that you have dedicated tools and machines. People come to you because you know how to solve a problem and you offer them some warranty. Common users does not come here or any other forum with similar topic.

Thanks everyone for patience, excuse me for long post.
Everyone input is appreciated about this matter.

Best regards.

[kemaster]

Let's say this: there are 3 ways of doing this job
1. You use second hand remote assuming the fact you know how to make it re-usable( I doubt because it's not public info) and you program it by yourself or friends of yours having proper equipment in your words(also not forget the fact you need the PIN , but lets say it's not so difficult to get it).
2. You buy brand new remote key and you program it the same way as described above
3. You go to auto locksmith who knows how to do it.
People say time is money. If you have enough of other kind( I mean the time) that doesn't cost money you can try the first or the second method.
But don't expect people that have invested a lot( and I mean not only money) and do this for living to tell you how you can do it by yourself to get it cheaper because you think the price is high.
Don't understand me wrong. Nothing personal to you. . Just my understanding for life is that you should make all the best to improve your skills in profession you are involved, so to gain more money and be able to pay others people professionalism.
Once again I'm not trying to offend you just to put my point of view(of course you have the right to disagree)

[autofan1965]

Hi, sorry for delay, been absent. First of all, my respect to all members of DK.

As you said, I don't have intention for career change.
It's just matter of someone's nature. I'm undergraduated engineer and also HB in Economics, with scope on IT. Have 20+ years of computer programming experience in may fields. Been done electronics for many years, today it's just a hobby. Last few years I'm doing consulting and technical support for few companies with main focus on NFC (Near Field Communication) and RFID technologies etc.
Enough introducing, I just wanted to make it clear why I came here.
It is a matter of human's nature. I always wanted to know how stuff works, no matter what is about. Same thing happened here, in this situation.

The easiest way is go to locksmith and do a new remote. It costs a lot in Serbia, some people here can confirm. It is relative to average salary in Serbia,let's say like this: Avg salary = 360 Euro , new plip+key+labour = 120 Euro , so it is 1/3 of average monthly wages, for car which is old more than 10 yrs.
Now, it is not a matter of money only. I can afford it, if needed, not a big deal. But everyone would try to solve problem as cheap as possible, so common. I have last resort to go to locksmith and do that. For the very same money I can install aftermarket alarm which will do the same stuff or even more... Nevermind that, I will decide what to do...
Problem is in the following subject: I saw this thread with title "Reusing old Peugeot/Citroen remotes type 73373067B,C" so I started to read it. Basically, we speak here about NXP's (or Philips) PCF7936 chip, which is 125 kHz Hitag2 chip. Datasheets are available on web in NXP's public area.
So, since I'm not doing locksmithing or car programming etc but I have friends who does some of that stuff, I have access to diagnostic equipment etc, I wanted to see if it is possible to overcome problem other way, like for example old remote and new transponder or similar. It was just sort of "project challenge".

Other reason is a trust. Here in Serbia, many people claim themselves as "master" and they usually say they can solve any problem. Truth is very different. I asked few people and only one had answer. So, my apologies to simaservis1108 member, I think I can remember we spoke over the phone, he had straight answer btu the price was little over my expectations.
My assumptions was based on common practice here: if something is not working, change everything until you fix it. So I thought maybe it is not needed to change everything, maybe just transponder and code it via PP2000. It is the one who gives a seed for rolling code to remote, I thought. Well, that is what I thought. Now I see that remote has to be "blank" too, so BSI can learn it and they can sync their rolling codes sequence. Remote PCB has few components: one MCU, one crystal, few passive components, battery and buttons. That maeks me think that rolling seed is inside MCU's EEPROM (or some part of memory), so if you can't get into MCU (usually you can't, there is bootloader, maybe custom protocol etc) then you're stuck with it as a brick electronics.
Third and last, I was wondering about second-hand remotes on Ebay. Why someone sell it if it is not reusable? And what about Chinese clones? They are pretty cheap (20$ compared to 80$ for genuine) , but definitely they are not the same or even close to genuine part's design. They have coil which impersonates as transponder, which is in fact only physical transport layer of 125 kHz, while "chip" (PCF7936) state machine is in some small MCU. That makes me no confidence of using such solution.

I use this occasion to explain my reasons for posting her and following this thread. Also, once again, my apologies if someone had bad impression about my first post/answer.

FInally:


I doubt about that. You will always be few steps ahead if you improve your knowledge and skills. Of course, experience is something most valuable and none can get it from few DIY tutorials on YT or some forum. Finally, you are selling mostly your knowledge and experience to your customers. Only few percents of price is the fact that you have dedicated tools and machines. People come to you because you know how to solve a problem and you offer them some warranty. Common users does not come here or any other forum with similar topic.

Thanks everyone for patience, excuse me for long post.
Everyone input is appreciated about this matter.

Best regards.

You choose wrong first challenge. This info is known already only by few peopel besides developer and is worth much much less as your time and energy wich will be necessery to discover it as you use it at the end only few times. When price from sima was too big for you i can assure you that alone equipment to discover this secret will cost you few times more as "too big" sima price. It is just not worth.

[simaservis1108]

Chinese remotes don't work.
Chinese remotes emulate OEM remote inside PCF7941.
BSI just reads info what remote should be stored in BSI,and allowed to be synced when PCF7936 is programmed.
So PCF7936 just tells BSI store "THAT" remote and let it sync with you.

My price for remote was 9600 dinars or around 80 euros - to be honest here.

[djolemag]

Hi again,

Don't understand me wrong. Nothing personal to you. . Just my understanding for life is that you should make all the best to improve your skills in profession you are involved, so to gain more money and be able to pay others people professionalism.
Once again I'm not trying to offend you just to put my point of view(of course you have the right to disagree)

I agree with you in this part about professionalism and I don't take you wrong, really. Thank you. However, paying for such service will only solve my annoying problem of manual door locking/unlocking. I shall still be curious about way how it works and what is the best way... Maybe even more curious than before... So it is not just about money.

You choose wrong first challenge. This info is known already only by few peopel besides developer and is worth much much less as your time and energy which will be necessary to discover it as you use it at the end only few times. When price from sima was too big for you i can assure you that alone equipment to discover this secret will cost you few times more as "too big" sima price. It is just not worth.

Agree once again. I am pretty sure that equipment cost much more than service. But it is always like that, I'm aware of that. Let me explain in short: If someone tells me "It won't work?", I will always ask "Why?". I just want to understand, that is my nature, that is how I do everyday job. I must know how some device/protocol/whatever works in order to debug/solve problem. Also, if I don't know that, I can not give advice to my customer (I speak about my job). Also, I'm payed to give truth and proper answers and good and ethical advisory. So, it's just my attitude and my nature, my being. Most of you recognize that. I'm sure that positive curiosity is major engine fuel for many inventions, improvements, hacks...

Sima answered my question and cleared my doubts in following post.

Chinese remotes don't work.
Chinese remotes emulate OEM remote inside PCF7941.
BSI just reads info what remote should be stored in BSI,and allowed to be synced when PCF7936 is programmed.
So PCF7936 just tells BSI store "THAT" remote and let it sync with you.

My price for remote was 9600 dinars or around 80 euros - to be honest here.

First, THANX to Sima for this answer, that is what I needed to know. I thought it works sort of this way, it is Chinese "modus operandi", they do many things like that. They have very big budgets for explorations and research. Last few years they are especially careful about intellectual property rights infringement, so I presume this is their "workaround" : impersonate PCF with coil and MCU. I'm sure they can do it in proper way but then they will probably break some IP rights. Hence, now I'm sure about Chinese remote - will not buy.
So two options left for me:
A) use it without genuine key, install aftermarket alarm (another challenge )
or
B) go to locksmith and pay genuine remote+service


This is important part for me:

@Simaservis
Now I'm pretty sure that guy who contacted you about virgin transponder wasn't me. I asked many people who advertise their locksmithing job on local web portal. Most of them answered negative, only one guy told me it will be around 110 Euros. I have contacted also one well known locksmith store over phone and he told me 120 Euros, as I mentioned above. I had no offers of 80 Euros and I'm 100% sure about that, because I would accept it.

Sima, now I can promise officially here that I will accept that price if you stay at that offer and I must say I see it as fair price. You must admit that ratio of 80/120 Euros is 1:1,50 ratio.
But I will still be very curious about how it works

Sima, if you agree, please send me contact details on PM so we can agree about details and time which is most convenient for you. I will explain once again my problem, just as reminder:
Vehicle : Peugeot 406 2.0 HDI 110 , 2001 yr D9, full mux (it has BSI and COM2000, so it should be).
I have two keys as numbered in Peugeot service box according to VIN number, I have "blue" code card with four letters (never had a need to try it with PP2000, I just got it from first owner ).
One key was plip remote, the other is spare key without remote function. I have working ID46 transponders in both keys.
I don't have PCB electronic from remote plip, guys at car washing service lost it due to bad key case who opened occasionally by itself (fortunately transponder was tightly fit into key case).
So I need to have once again fully working remote keyfob.

Looking forward to your answer.

I wish to thank once again to all participants in this thread. Cheers!

[simaservis1108]

Well if your e-mail is same as your username and you live in a town that is about 80kms from Belgrade,then it is you.
If not I am very sorry,it must be other person.
Two of the best locksmiths in the Serbia,are just that,locksmiths.
Locksmiths that have bought very expensive tools,and still can't many jobs,or they kill cars - BMW CAS3+ with AVDI(colleagues will know).
On the other hand,locksmiths here are very educated people,and can handle electronics very well.

I sell "virgin" remotes to other locksmiths in Serbia - nothing on DK though

I am not a locksmith myself,I just do keys because they are integral part of car electronic systems.
I don't do locks or cylinders,that kind of stuff either.

On DK every kind of selling is forbidden,so lets drop the subject.

[Johnner]

Guys,to keep this thread open,please drop all discussion about prices for products and services...

Also,please take all business dealings away from DK...nobody is interested in what takes place between you guys...


Thank you...

[djolemag]

I apologize, you're both right. Let's drop this subject about pricing and trading, this is technical forum. I feel sort of guilty for asking such inconvenient questions.

[snecii]

Confirm what exactly? BSI must be open and eeprom read to put it in virgin state. And if you're referring to the remote, I've done over 500 peugeot vehicles and yes used works as long as it's a virgin bsi

I'm interest about this....

These remotes are paired with ID46(7936) so If you make virgin BSI how can you add a lock 7936 chip to the BSI?
Becouse you can not learn lock key to car so you need to write chip into the bsi. Just the ID enought to write? or how?

[albdiag]

Very interesting.
Trying to play with arduino and rf module. http://arduinobasics.blogspot.al/201...-tutorial.html
But the algo to convert the rf info to pages for pfc7936 is a problem. without it nothing can be done