Lishi pick door locks with clutch

[Jimmy07]

Hello All

What’s the best technique to pick a lock with a clutch and decode ?

Done a bit of research some say gentle pressure others say spike the lock

Thanks in advance

[milehighlockdoc]

I've never picked a lock into the clutch, even locks that only half work. Pick them as normal. Lighter tension is easier on lishis than heavy tension.

[raptureready]

I've never picked a lock into the clutch, even locks that only half work. Pick them as normal. Lighter tension is easier on lishis than heavy tension.

Then you never picked a Peugeot 406 ne78 key way yet that lock clutches when you insert the lishi into it you are right though , light tension always best , except bmw needs heavier tension if picking to open direction


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[Jimmy07]

Tried a Renault Traffic today was clutching very easy with very little tension

I’ve heard of spiking but it’s something I know absolutely nothing about
Can you spike these locks if so what’s the method?

[rapidlocksmiths]

Then you never picked a Peugeot 406 ne78 key way yet that lock clutches when you insert the lishi into it you are right though , light tension always best , except bmw needs heavier tension if picking to open direction


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the NE78 from the peugeot 406 , this was the very first tool i did demo on at the shows as it was the very first 2in1 pick and decoder made , i managed to find a dozen locks all with various degrees of sensitivity with the clutches , not found one yet that i cant pick open , some require feather light tension. this was always my favourite training lock to rid guys of over tension , the ne78 is a great training lock.
ive been to plenty that its been claimed light tension is being used and locks ducked or tool is bad , in most cases its too heavy tension despite them saying they used light tension.

theres only 2 occassions ive spiked a lock , one is to spike it open to keep it open in order to swap tools, back in the day when it was seperate blind touch picks and seperate decoders , the other is fiat ignition locks , its necessary to spike these in order to pick them but not to get over a clutch but to defeat the sidebar.

with regards the traffic , its unusual to have a very very light clutch on a traffic , so id be saying feather light tension is needed if the case , theres also the possibility the clutch unit is faulty of course in which case you opt for plan b to gain entry then pick and decode the ignition for the key , or resort to the old skills of removing the door lock and stripping it , ball ache job on these but has been useful in the past.

[milehighlockdoc]

Then you never picked a Peugeot 406 ne78 key way yet that lock clutches when you insert the lishi into it you are right though , light tension always best , except bmw needs heavier tension if picking to open direction


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haha I'm stateside so I can't say I've had the pleasure to! maybe I'll pick one up on ebay

[Jimmy07]

Thanks everyone will go gently see how it goes

Regarding spiking the locks do you not pick lock with picking tool then spike and decode with a prestine tool with certain locks ?

What is used to spike a lock and what’s the best method ?

[rapidlocksmiths]

once open a hand pick or feeler gauge is inserted between the plug and face cap to hold the plug in open position , thats it , not rocket science , bit like wedging a door to hold it open , however if clutching on feather tension with lishi tool then it will clutch on most other picking methods too , these tend to pick open by overlifting very easily as well but again if clutching on feather light tension then this is likely to fail too.

it is also possible that the lock is knackered , customer may never have used it and relied on remote , they dont know its ducked till they need to use it .

if picking the lock isnt working for you , then theres the old fashioned way of airbag and go for the central locking button on the dash , then you can pick and decode the ignition as long as your tool is ignition enabled.

or you can go really old school and remove and strip the lock to get key cuts , impressioning the ignition will work well but will fail on door if lock is permantly clutching . if everything is beating you then buy the key number from dealer or code broker if lock isnt ducked and van hasnt had a lock change .

[Jimmy07]

Hi Rapid

Thanks for explaining the spike and how it works not much info on clutch type locks or spiking on the net.

Should have explained this better.

Copied a key for this van ( spare )and went to open door and it clutched and wouldn’t open. Used original key to open the door no problem. Here’s the weird bit the key I cut wouldn’t open door but turned ignition on. Always found it the other way round as would open door but not turn ignition.

So was going to pick lock and decode to cut key from code.

The original key is well worn but that’s twice now the A9 has not cut keys that work properly. Laser keys are fine but side cutting machine doesn’t seem to duplicate very well. Have calibrated cutter and decode probe but..........

Might have to invest in a duplicate cutting machine now, more bloody kit

[rapidlocksmiths]

the miracle range of machines often cut 1 side too shallow , used to be able to get around this by flipping key over and cutting again , it was often a problem on the A6 , especially on the very hard china blades , also some aftermarket blades are slightly out on size ,plenty having issues with one wholesalers nsn14 remote blades not cutting correctly due to a sizing issue, this is where a set of verniers helps alot to measure your key and the original to see whats going wrong.
it pays to have a good cylinder cutter for running these off .

if the original worked fine in the door and your key doesnt then its simple your key is cut incorrectly , did you site read the key ? this helps to confirm that the machine hasnt decoded the key wrong which it often will on a heavily worn key , when ever i decode a key on a machine i always site read the key as well , if i disagree with the machine i cut what my eyes tell me , site reading is a simple skill and saves burning keys .
so either the machine miscut the key normally on 1 side , or the machine decoded the worn key wrong in a position or 2 , verniers or eye should determine which it is . i tend to use the ninja laser on edge keys as far more accurate in cutting , but i still throw alot of spares onto the manual cutter .

[Jimmy07]

Hi Rapid

Thanks for info. Yes I’m picking up sight reading the likes of Tibbe and put post up here a while back for Nissan Pathfinder asked members to assist in a sight reading but no takers. Im studying sight reading as it’s a brilliant asset to have and have had limited success but it will come with more experience on different keys. Yes I can see now to have total faith in any machine is a foolish route to take. The letter coded keys now that’s another story haven’t had time to look at these as yet

A small duplication cutter is maybe the way to go with these side cut keys if badly worn at least it’s copying the worn parts more accurately.

Meantime I’ll get the lishi out and try to decode the door lock. If cuts look the same as the key I cut on A9 I’ll just have to take it to a friend with duplicater cutting machine until I order one

[rapidlocksmiths]

letter coded keys are no different to number coded keys at end of day , ie with ne72/ne73 on traffic if converting to numbers ;

S = 1
R = 2
P = 3
N = 4
M = 5

no difference in how you site read , its just converting them to what ever your machine accepts . this key only has 5 possible heights so isnt difficult to site read , your nissan pathfinder only has 4 heights so is even easier to read , if no takers then its possible key image wasnt clear , you need a good side on clean image most of the time to get a good site read from a photo , at an angle or unclear will make it not always an accurate site read in an image.
if you dont trust your eye , then simple verniers will measure the cuts in a second , compare this to the measurements instacode tell you they should be and you can swiftly decode a key this way .

ie with your traffic key not fitting , measure each cut on his key , then measure each cut on your key , you will soon find where the issue is and whether its machine decoding a position wrong due to wear or if an issue with cutting 1 side too shallow , this simple exercise and a hand file could fix your key quickly . i suspect when you put in on a duplicator either 1 side will cut deeper or 1 position will cut deeper on both sides which will also confirm whether it read a position wrong or whether it cut 1 side too shallow.

[Jimmy07]

Hi Rapid

I like the idea of the verniers for now rather than buying another cutting machine. The A9 seems to be reading wrong on both sides as both sides are cut wrong when compared to original. Like picking but it’s always good to have options. Next time my friend is with me I’ll comprare keys on his machines to see where the problem lies. Hopefully it’s just another badly worn key and I will learn to compensate for this in the future.

Thanks for all your help 👍🏻

[rapidlocksmiths]

both sides in every position or just in 1 or 2 positions ?

is your key lower than their key in 1 or 2 positions on each side , if so a file will rectify this

it is common for a worn key to be read wrong , ie it will read a 1 cut as a 2 if key is worn .

or is it higher than their key , if higher then try cutting again to see if more comes off on a second pass

[Jimmy07]

Hi Rapid

It seems to be near the tip of key 2nd or 3rd cut in, it’s always lower/deeper than original. So say it’s supposed to be a 3 cut it will cut 2 or 1 instead. I’ll post a picture of one of the keys later when at PC along with code so you will see it.

Like you’ve stated before it’s all about knowing your tools. If I know the A9 is cutting deeper on 1-2 positions say a 2 instead of a 3 I can compensate. Cuts fine on keys that are not worn.

Thanks again