New starter

[Evernemi]

Hello everyone,

I am looking to change my career and become an auto locksmith . Unfortunately i don't have experience in programming or copying keys & neither the tools .

I know i am asking for much but what do you think will be next steps for me ?

Should i get a specialized training or be a self learner ? It's about £2.5k for training

What do you think will be a good starter pack ? How much should i spend & what do you think i should buy

Probably i will start with the easy ones and then gradually learn something new .

Really appreciate for the comments

[BraLaas]

Hello everyone,

I am looking to change my career and become an auto locksmith . Unfortunately i don't have experience in programming or copying keys & neither the tools .

I know i am asking for much but what do you think will be next steps for me ?

Should i get a specialized training or be a self learner ? It's about £2.5k for training

What do you think will be a good starter pack ? How much should i spend & what do you think i should buy

Probably i will start with the easy ones and then gradually learn something new .

Really appreciate for the comments

Search on Google "The OBD Company"
I knoe they offer training in this field of work..
Another thing hope you have an big savings...
To learn you have to make mistakes...
And in this field they are costly
Good luck

Sent from my MAR-LX1M using Tapatalk

[Evernemi]

BraLaas , Thanks for the reply

To be honest i am between The OBD Company & Hickleys

Different prices and different reviews

To be honest not quite , i will get a finance on the big items & the rest i will buy them with my money

Any advice's for a beginner ?

[BraLaas]

Well i will start off by going for training at the OBD company
They will also learn you alot about tools and what tools to use for what job
What i can say is that you will have to start getting used to eeprom programing
So i wluld suggest you to buy something like UPA ( cheap clone) and an old instrument from scrap yard
Try to change the mileage on it while doing training at the obd company
Like i said you will learn more about the tools later
Dont buy something to program keys of you dont know what transponder to use
You will just get angry at yourself
Get some knowledge first
And read posts in forum everyday

Now please dont forget to smash that thanks button if this helped

Sent from my MAR-LX1M using Tapatalk

[Evernemi]

Thanks a lot for the help

You have 2 thanks from me

[Jimmy07]

Always good to see new people coming into the game and going by your post your prepared to commit to an extent. Not like a lot of idiots who buy an eBay programmer and wing it.

I’m self taught and only at it a year but getting wiser by the day. Read, study, go to scrapyards to practice. Learn Lishi first this is a good foundation to becoming a decent locksmith and you’ll use these regularly. If you learn lishi you can start doing lock outs and bring in some revenue straight away.

Programming I’d go for a second hand MVP pro it has decent coverage and covers a lot of vehicles uses tokens but a good starter tool and used ones are cheap. OBDSTAR for token free speak to Connor at Autowave they sell this tool with support so perhaps worth a look 👀

You’ve a long, long expensive road ahead and you’ll need a friendly bank manager so be warned. There are some very helpful and intelligent men on this forum. It has helped me gain some knowledge that no training course will offer........

Saying that best of luck moving forward 👍🏻

[Evernemi]

Jimmy ,

thanks a a lot for your reply . At first I will have to do this as a part time . So probably will be a good idea to start with Lishi tools & with a second hand MV Pro . Seen a few good reviews about that.

What about cloning the keys , would you recommend an KD-X2 or Silca ?

[Evernemi]

And what do you think will be a good starter pack for Lishi tools ? They’re so many part no’s

[rapidlocksmiths]

this post isnt intended to be negative just honest and realistic .

1st off you are looking to start a business , so your first step must be to approach it as a business , something most overlook to there cost . research your local competition and their prices , check on facebook how many busy fools are doing lost keys for beer money in the area , all of this knowledge is gold dust , if you know the rates in your area and how many competitors you will have , it gives you an idea on what you are up against , whether the area is big enough to sustain another auto locksmith and there will be plenty . work out the investment needed , and this will be considerable and the time frame for payback on the investment .
kit hits the 2nd hand market on a regular basis and sells for less than half the new price , most are start ups.
its not just start ups shutting up shop , alot of long time tradesmen struggle now to make a living in an over saturated market , where equipment costs and running costs increase but due to oversaturation rates have halved , its a tough business to get into despite the paths laden with gold advertising from the training outfits out for their pot of gold selling you training and kit.

when researching competitors research them all , from the key cutting shops and shoe repairers who offer spare keys while you wait for as low as £25 and spare remote keys from £60 , to the garages , diagnostic centers , vehicle alarm installers , car dealers that many also offer cheap keys , its not just auto locksmiths you will compete with.

you mention finance , finance must be paid back , so you need to know what kit you need to buy , how much this costs , what the finance repayments are on this , if token kit the price per token , all this has to be added to your business running costs to work out your rates to break even , then add in a reinvestment amount and wage needs to each job , you will work out from this if you can afford to match the local competitor rates.
so step one if sensible is to research your area , competition and rates .

good to get an idea on how well equipped and how well stocked your competitors are , this influences your own investment , if you have plenty of competitors who have good coverage token free kit then you will struggle with pay as you go token machines , the cost of tokens will cripple you and make you non competative on price.
stock is another factor , a well stocked competitor can do the job today as has the kit and the keys in stock to respond straight away , a customer will pay more to have the job done by someone who can do it now and is unlikely to wait a day or two for you to order in a key , so adequate stock of the most common cars you will see is essential.

so plenty to research to form a workable business plan that gives you a chance of survining the first year .

so many wake up and think , im going to be an auto locksmith , with no previous experience , no associated knowledge its far harder to reach basic competence than many realise .

technology and vehicle systems move on quickly , the new tech to keep up with the market is expensive , so plan for ongoing investment .

many of your competiors will not only have years of knowledge but will also be well stocked with good token free kit , some with over £100k on a single van , so research and plan and confirm viability before parting with your money as so many lose their savings and end up with shattered dreams.

if you enter this trade and ever go full time at it , you will quickly learn to despise the have a go mob starting up on a budget part time around a paying job , they all have the same plan , start up slowly part time on just the easy stuff , but with so many doing this their is very little profit in just the easy stuff , as so many work for beer money on the easy stuff , so opportunity is limited.
you need profit from the easy jobs to build up the investment pot to reinvest in the better kit to take on the more complex jobs , without this you are on a hiding to nothing .

i dont know your background , if you have associated experience as a mechanic , in auto electrics , diagnostics , remapping etc or even as a general locksmith then you have a big advantage over someone with no vehicle and associated knowledge which increases you chances of making it considerably.

do not ignore liability insurance and indemnity insurance that covers you to work on cars , you will be thankfull of this the first time you brick a car

training on the whole is inadequate , if it was possible to become even basically competent in a trade in just 7 to 14 days then it would not be a skilled trade , the truth is it takes years . most training outfits are distributors , so there training is centered around only what they sell , as the training course is a sales platform for them first and formost , so your training is limited to what they sell which is rarely the best option .

take lishi , you will learn just the basics , how competent you become will depend how many practice locks you have access to and how many months of dedicated practice you put into perfecting the methods , it takes time and dedication.

what lishi do you need , the simple answer is all of them , but the logical answer requires you to do your research , every area is different , some areas are afluent where its mostly new high end cars , some areas are poor and its mainly older cars and some areas are everything in between, so knowing your area and what your likely to see the most of influences which tools you need to buy and learn first .

the same is relevent to your diagnostics , what makes models and years do you hope to cover ? what makes models and years are you capable of working on with any associated knowledge you may have , what are most common vehicles in your area , this all indicates what coverage you need , so the wise will match their diagnostics and kit to their needs , area and capabilities rather than buy blind and hope for best , asking what to buy will get you loads of answers , some relevent some not relevent to your needs capability and area , so again full business research pays dividends.

decide what areas you hope to set up in ;

lock outs only you will need lishi and other entry tools and be able to use them , but theres no living to be made in lock outs alone , the AA and RAC do these free to members and theres not enough lock outs to go around to make a living

just spare clone keys , this limits the kit you need

sparte keys only also reduces the diagnostics , tools and cutting equipment needed

all keys lost which diagnostics depends on coverage needs , cut to code machine , stock etc

so buy what you need based on the results of your business plan and your research , your area , alot of luck and alot of time practice and ongoing research , and very deep pockets as spending is the one thing that stays constant in this trade. we have all bought crap , dust catchers and kit we never use and the distributors will sell you all they can good and bad , they smell money and the can spot a sucker a mile away , it all looks and sounds like gold , see trainers and distributors as sharks circling and all are hungry and apply caution and common sense.

so please , dont read this as a negative , and dont be put off , but do take off the rose tinted specs , do proper research , form a proper workable business plan , do a viability exercise to determine if its viable , look hard at yourself to be sure that the practical and tech work are what you can do and will get on with , dont neglect insurance and everything associated with running a business , ie associated costs like advertising , what ads work in your area and what dont , how much advertising costs and returns from ads , accountant costs , phone , fuel , vehicle , parking permits , insurance , insuring your kit , finance costs , subscriptions and tokens etc etc etc as all will dictate what you need to charge to survive .

a good exercise is look at all your costs , business running costs , advertising , vehicle , insurance , accounts etc etc and get a total figure of your cost per job , id be surprised if at first you get more than 10 jobs a week , so lets say your total business running costs are a conservative £250 per week , so if getting 10 jobs a week , your cost per job is £25 , add to this your parts cost , token cost and fuel cost and this tells you your break even point on what you must charge to break even , then lets say you need £250 a week wages on 10 jobs a week you must add £25 to your break even point cost per job , then factor in an amount for reinvestment unexpected vehicle repairs , warranty call backs etc , add them all together and you get an idea of the rate you must charge to survive , compare this to rates in your area , is it viable.
factor in tax , at the end of your first year you must pay tax on your earnings , the full year plus an estimated percentage of next year , so needs factoring in to wage needs.

remember you are running a business , alot to learn here on top of learning a trade from scratch .

if not put off , then its a great trade if putting yourself out to learn it properly , if keeping up with it and practicing hard , no trade like it , it changes fast and every day is a school day which keeps it fresh and interesting , the money isnt in the easy jobs its in the areas that many cant work in , so give yourself realistic goals and expect to invest more than you earn in wages especially in the early years .

in the uk , id estimate that 1 in 10 that set up are still trading 12 months later , some who train never set up , some play at it and walk away and some get stuck in , your area , competition , local rates and needs will play a big part in survival , as will a bit of luck and alot of work , it is a steep learning curve , you will enjoy the work and the challenges of which theres many no matter how good you get , you will despair at the low rates and you will struggle to make ends meet and keep up , but make it and it will be the best move you made .

so research and plan and get an understanding of the job , the work , the commitment and the costs before giving away your money , and if you can, then stay away from finance and tokens as both will hold you back financially.

id hope you have done all of this already and have a plan and a good idea of what you are getting into , as only a fool would just dive in blind , its a tough flooded market on the decline , regardless of what trainers and tool sellers will tell you . i love this trade but i wouldnt want to be setting up today and have pushed all 6 of my kids towards more viable careers as the future aint as rosy as some paint it.

3 years till i retire at 60 , i cant wait .

[whiskeyman]

Was just going to say that

[sleepyrz]

Basically

Id say if you dont have some sort of mechanic/electronics/diagnostics background

Run away

You must be able to know when its not your job as well

Get tons of people that call asking to "reprogram" their car keys. Because their car doesn't start...........

I get those at least twice a week

Or how about my car forgot the keys and they need to be reprogrammed


Or how about the "my mechanic said its the keys"

My usual reply is that they have a shitty mechanic and itll cost 60$ in diagnostics to check

[Evernemi]

@rapidlocksmiths

Wow , thanks a lot for your reply & honest feedback . I don't see it as a negative , it's just the realistic side of the trade .

I did had a look around on the competitors prices ,obviously they're prices and prices

Let's put it like this , when i decided to go into this business is when i purchased my car a few months ago and only came with one key . I work in a Car parts company so i know loads of garages around me , i have been asking around for an auto locksmith to do my keys , contacted 2 of them and now it's been 3 weeks still waiting for someone to do the job .

Currently i live in UK but originally i'm from Romania and looking to get the business down there once i'm confident in myself ( 2-3 competitors on a 100 miles range ) . Any business these days it will take at least 1 year without probably making any profit ( or even if you do any will just invest everything ) . Obviously i expect not to be an easy trade but with work and patience i do reckon that you can get there .

I will allocate a lot of my free time to read , learn , understand what needs to be done before i purchase anything . I understand that probably are loads of newbie like me out there who will do things almost for nothing but so are mechanics, painters and so on.


I'm 26 and i have a good career but in my own experience it's a lot better to be in a trade and i know my things in car parts - so i have a bit of background related to this .

I'm posting in here because i can see they're a lot of users that have a vast experience and with your help i hope that i'm going to learn something .

So saying all these first step it's covered , now it's just where do i start from ? Who do i chose Hickleys or the OBD company - has anyone done their training with any of them ? Like you said i wont learn everything from a 10 days course or it won't be a well paid trade if anyone will get that and can do any job.

Probably i will go for VAG group at the beginning ,wherever you go from 5 cars - 2 are VAG - and then Vauxhall -Ford- Renault - Mercedes - BMW

The year will be somewhere between 2005-2012/13 .

Really appreciate your comment and it's been really helpful .

[rapidlocksmiths]

Basically

Id say if you dont have some sort of mechanic/electronics/diagnostics background

Run away

You must be able to know when its not your job as well

Get tons of people that call asking to "reprogram" their car keys. Because their car doesn't start...........

I get those at least twice a week

Or how about my car forgot the keys and they need to be reprogrammed


Or how about the "my mechanic said its the keys"

My usual reply is that they have a shitty mechanic and itll cost 60$ in diagnostics to check

i get these calls daily , my mechanic says its the keys , recovery say its the keys and they are experts , it just needs recoding . my keys need recoding after i fitted my new radio , my car cut out whilst driving and now wont start recovery says car forget keys and needs recoding , life wouldnt be the same without these daily calls .

though the disturbing ones are the ones that have been more common in recent times , " i had a guy out but something went wrong and now my original key no longer starts car , he went off for different kit and didnt come back and now wont answer phone " my car did work but now just says def . sadly these calls im getting far more regular .

[rapidlocksmiths]

vag group is one of worst to start with and one of most expensive to get good reliable coverage , vag is the one i get called to most after a cheap service has bricked it . no tool gives 100% coverage on vag so often multiple tools are needed .

vag tacho is very good and one of simplest for new starts to use but has gaps in coverage but is best kit on old beetle and TT
supervag has excellent coverage but also has large gaps especially on audi
mvp is dire on vag
chinese kit has some good coverage
xhorse vvdi2 is excellent
abrites is excellent

all of the above have their failures and weaknesses , having 3 or more and knowing how to use them helps maximise coverage .

train with hickleys and you wont be taught to use any of the above vag tools , you will be taught zedfull and smart pro on vag and only the menu driven functions , both use expensive tokens and both although having ok vag coverage , lacks the coverage of other units .

the easy part of the job is once learned , picking and decoding then making a key , plugging in and following the menu to code key , the fun starts when the computer says no , has no comms , cant read correct pin , then different kit is needed and different skills as it will be clocks out and work on these , trace and fix wiring faults , rematch units etc , none of which is taught by most training courses. broken and siezed locks , faulty ignitions etc , all regular jobs and situations not covered by most training courses .

good luck in your quest , it will frustrate you but its great fun learning

[Evernemi]

vag group is one of worst to start with and one of most expensive to get good reliable coverage , vag is the one i get called to most after a cheap service has bricked it . no tool gives 100% coverage on vag so often multiple tools are needed .

vag tacho is very good and one of simplest for new starts to use but has gaps in coverage but is best kit on old beetle and TT
supervag has excellent coverage but also has large gaps especially on audi
mvp is dire on vag
chinese kit has some good coverage
xhorse vvdi2 is excellent
abrites is excellent

all of the above have their failures and weaknesses , having 3 or more and knowing how to use them helps maximise coverage .

train with hickleys and you wont be taught to use any of the above vag tools , you will be taught zedfull and smart pro on vag and only the menu driven functions , both use expensive tokens and both although having ok vag coverage , lacks the coverage of other units .

the easy part of the job is once learned , picking and decoding then making a key , plugging in and following the menu to code key , the fun starts when the computer says no , has no comms , cant read correct pin , then different kit is needed and different skills as it will be clocks out and work on these , trace and fix wiring faults , rematch units etc , none of which is taught by most training courses. broken and siezed locks , faulty ignitions etc , all regular jobs and situations not covered by most training courses .

good luck in your quest , it will frustrate you but its great fun learning

Honestly i am amazed on how complicate this job can get , but i think because it's so complicated it's rewarding as well when it comes to a solution .

Many thanks