2010 Kia Sportage 2.0d no start

[Meat-Head]

Think I mentioned for test removal of any rubber seals on crank sensor

[Rustynutz]

Thanks again,
I thought you meant cam sensor.
Do you think the voltage is too low ? Tdc peak is 1volt the rest of them are about 250 mVolts.
I'll have to try and get to the crank sensor and see.

[Meat-Head]

Try stalking DK member “Teuton” think that correct
he from Meccio, see if he got service manual for one

link to this post, so he’s not thinking your some random newbie

[Rustynutz]

Attachment 792657Attachment 792654

[Rustynutz]

So I have moved on this dinnertime.


I realised that I had scoped across the sensor last time.


I know that there is about 850 ohms across the crank sensor with the ECU disconnected measuring through the pins and that there are no shorts to the shield.


I notice on Picoscope website that there are two circuits for this type of sensor (magnetic)


One is a constant reference, non-floating, voltage to one side of the sensor and the sensor output signal on the other side


OR
a floating voltage, with mirrored output signals on each side of the sensor. This is the type that Kia utilise.


So I have scoped both sides of the sensor with reference to ground and find that only one of the outputs is there. The mirrored signal is not there. I have attached the scoped image.


My conclusion is that one of the ECU inputs is internally shorted.


Will remove ECU and open it up to check the input.

cranksensor to ground1.jpg

[rideon]

Timing belt or timing chain on that engine?
How many (nautical)miles/km.light years on that engine ?
sounds like a stretched chain/almost right timing belt

[Rustynutz]

thanks for the post.
It's a timing belt and the motor has done about 105000 with a belt change at 65000. The strange thing about this car is that it runs without fault once starting fluid is used to start. no black smoke no unusual noise and no fault codes.

Im a newbie at scoping as much as here.
I checked the signal again and there are two. I've attached the scope. I think one of the backprobes wasnt connected well.
Attachment 793424IMG_20210312_155949.jpg


The edc must be receiving the signal as also serial data is 280rpm cranking maybe just not how the EDC expect it for allowing injection.
I researched the code and found this in a megane technical manual with the EDC16 controller.

P0336 Crankshaft position (CKP) sensor -range/performance problem
cause Insecure sensor/rotor, air gap, wiring, CKPsensor
The 0. 25 volt AC voltage must be too low.
I think I need to check the sensor and wiring in the engine bay.

Meathead is right I think in earlier post.

I have found this link which suggests a .70 volt signal is required.

The signal amplitude must be 0.6 V at minimum for the ECU to recognize it. In the beginning of this measurement the amplitude is 0.7 V which is just enough. The signal amplitude varies with the engine speed: it is higher at higher rpms. The exact amplitude is not important because the ECU uses the flanks to determine the crankshaft position.


https://static.tiepie.com/gfx/Automo...eMeasured.webp

If the timing was out would we expect
P0016 Crankshaft position/camshaft position, bank 1 sensor A - correlation ?

Thanks

[Meat-Head]

Meathead is right I think in earlier post.

Thanks

GRIN LIKE CHESSIRE CAT MODE:-

that’s a novelty.

did you remove t’ rubber seals off cranksensor?

can you starting fluid, then while running clear codes, see what happens?

I have to go out now, digging 3 tons of cat shit to get a hammer out my shed
but someone (sorry no idea) on here had a Vauxhall combo and the pickup inside
engine failed and they bolted used pickup to the crankshaft pulley

might be worth a read.

GRIN LIKE CHESSIRE CAT MODE STILL ACTIVE:-

[Rustynutz]

I think the process will go like this.
Remove ECU plug scope voltage across the crankshaft coil whilst bridging starter motor solenoid.
Remove plug from crankshaft sensor and scope across it. Compare voltage. Might be corroded plug connector.
Then look to remove the crankshaft sensor see if can see gap under mounting face. It's meant to be a bit of a crappy job as is on rear of engine under egr, removal of turbo inlet pipe and air filter to do from above and sensor meant to not be visible so might have to use endoscope.
If no gap remove and check for corrosion on mounting face. If no corrosion file sensor face down to decrease the gap.
Can see the tone wheel teeth on the scopes so that hasn't fallen off yet !

Enjoy the shovelling

[rideon]

Throw scope in the bottom drawer, not gonna help on this one
Remove crank and cam sensors and see if there is any metal fillings stuck on em
take a picture/upload on DK - just for fun
If those sensors are ruled out,try a push start, an if the indian starts then is time to pay a visit to local dealer with a VIN number
Who knows, maybe there is a TSB addressing that issue

[Meat-Head]

If those sensors are ruled out,try a push start,e

The only reason why I didn’t tell the guy to PUSH OFF, is because he seems decent enough to post
even on a Sunday

[rideon]

Me failed inglish again .
Did my homework, quick g00gle search "push off car"
On the first page there were some pictures suggested by said search engine
Quite descriptive, that made it easy for me to understand the concept.




OT
The push off part was just to rule out low rpm starter...

[Rustynutz]

Found the fault on the vehicle.
The crankshaft sensor was loose although the securing bolt was tight. When the sensor was removed the o ring was not installed either. The securing bolt was too long it didn't look like a genuine bolt either as was not a flange head, this incorrect bolt was not allowing the sensor to clamp up to its mounting face. I replaced the securing bolt with a shorter one and tightened. I scoped the sensor and the signal is now 10 X's bigger than previous.
I fitted the ECU and diesel now sprays out of the injector.
I've started replacing the removed components.
Pretty sure it will start when everything is replaced.
I've attached the scope. It's very different from the first one.
IMG_20210317_124700.jpg

Basically somebody had dropped the securing bolt and replaced it with one far too long.

[Meat-Head]

Great always nice to hear solution to problem

ARE YOU LISTENING Z786, member updates thread

nice to hear fix, so proberbly your mate as its his car