some interestring nag3 info

**Manic01** · 3 February, 2009, 16:24

Trying to answering the N3 question.

I will try and answer this question so many of you want to know, and do this as intelligently and in layman’s terms the best possible way I can so many of our members can understand it. Now I will only uses a few abbreviations in this post so that many of our newbie's can understand what I mean, I will uses this many times (N/A) meaning; North American Market.

Now to start with alot of rumors of coders waiting n3 is fully activated into the stream from each uplink transmission center owned by echo star Inc. I and many others’s underground believe this is false. The only reason all coders working in the FTA industry now have not introduced new codes for any FTA unit now is because they have nothing to work with. None of the n3 encryption information they need have been given to them as of yet. Why?

Well because until a (hacker) or a (group) of hacker's crack's the (G3) card used here in N/A the coders will not even be able to start to write any codes.

Question; so how long will it take?
I wonder; well the question really is will the information be leaked as it was before? Good question and I guess that might depend on how much money one or more companies are willing to pay. Or if the info could or will be leaked out again, and if! And I say this is every unlikely as the (SI) department is watching and guarding this info with their lives.

And might even kill to keep it!
It possible it will never be leaked out, or cracked in the next two years. Why so hard? n1 and n2 were hacked? Why not n3?

Now the best answer to that is because of past (hackers) themselves, the number #1 in Europe has been hired by the company that owns the makers of nagra3 encryption system.

Who is that you ask? Well let’s uses alittle history to answer these questions.

He is Chris Tarnovsky the founding member of the (Black Hat's) a German hacker group that showed many of the worlds hackers just how to break into the security systems of the cards themselves. And now he has been hired by the same company he hacked before, and you know the first thing they wanted to know is (How he hacked their cards).
And what could be gone to (stop hackers) in the future, this is one every good reason hackers in Spain/England and the Eastern Block's have not been able to break into the new Video Guard/Europe codes for the last two years now.

Now then video guards codes used in Europe are different than the codes used here in the states with ***/dn, but the info needed still remains the same. NDS took 6 months (trying) to break into the n2 cards themselves it was until tarnovsky was paid 6 figures that he broke the cards down in less than a week, which blew away NDS big-time. After that all the info needed was gotten from the cards used in a month and coders then used the MAPCALL codes to write the bin files needed. This took about 5 to 6 months to complete. Now coders have several more tools to use in writing codes, this makes it alot faster and easier to write codes now, this is why we have new bin files released in matter of hours not month's or week's nor even days. Most files today are wrote on a complier within minutes and released to the general internet of (broadcaster) within 2 to 4 hours.

Now let me give you alittle history lesson "Rupert Murdoch" owns dtv and (NDS) a subsidiary of the media group news corp. a company setup for the purpose of hacking dn n2 cards, setup in 1999 this in Israeli for the purpose of hacking and releasing the codes over the internet. Why?

Well because he and "Charlie Ergen" the owner of DN tried to merge both their companies twice once in 1997, and again in 2000 and the FCC forced them to stay apart. Why? Because of what many call "Capitalism” or we might call "free market". Guess the government was afraid they would have something called a "MONOPLY" yelpers just like the game, where one company rules the whole industry all over the N/A market. Like the steel industries where in the 1880 here in the US before the feds hacked them apart into alot of little company’s so they could not control the whole north American market and set prices to whatever they wish.

Now since dtv and dn have been in a lawsuit since 2002, which is just now in a federal court in California last month over this very subject. Dtv and dn have been fighting between there selves. This is back to the reason Dtv hacked and released the n2 codes to stab dn right in the back. Why? Well because Rupert Murdoch does not want DN to have a greater market share of satellite tv industry in the US and that pretty much says it all.

Now back to who writes Nagra codes? A company called Kudelski Group owns *********** they are the producers of the Nagra 3 codes, and have invented all 3 of the Nagra codes used in the N/A market since dn/echo star started in the US.

Now what’s been going on in the past week?
Well since Christmas week (all) DTH Satellite uplink centers have been broadcasting both codes at the same time, yes n2/n3 codes. This has some good points to it, meaning that each new (G3) card has both accesses (CW) both (public) and (private) codes for both sets of encrypting the EMMs and CAMs. Coders can use this very small amount of known information to help start a solution on coding eliminators or better known as (FTA) Receivers.

Although I'm absolutely positive that until the private (CW) codes are known the coders are not going to be able to current vent the security encryption of Nagra 3 unless the hackers are successful in peeling away the 3 extra layers of silicone security chips using a powerful electron microscope and several different acids and lasers first until they get to the final precious bottom 3 layers of the Kudelski chip where all the precious codes are hidden. This is the part where only the best hackers (engineers) have the ability to do this type of work.
So please members do not think for one minute that any “back yard” computer “guru” hacker can break this type of security system, I’m sorry it just ain’t going to happen. EVER
So what some of us do know is that without Chris Tarnovsky techniques that allow him to break open chip cards that block access to pay TV chains the whole world would still be without paid satellite tv. Is there hope for us yes! ofcourse it is always possible out of the hundreds of labs setup in different countries hackers are working on this problem now.
But remember they have to have several things, first access to (G3) cards, unissued cards open and clean meaning; cards that have not been imbedded with maintenance access codes, and user access codes used to track the customer uses of this system, PPV Events, PPV Movies, ~~~~ and so on. This is very important and requires someone from the inside of the manufacturing department, of the (SI) department itself. But this is not likely to happen with that amount of screening done by the company’s for their personal. And that each person has to allow the company into their lives, banking records, and life styles.

So how long will it take before any group of coders have a fix for n3, well depending on the amount of info on the new (G3) cards they might have to run on a complier for several days, or using (banks of compliers) for several weeks. It’s still unknown the amount of new process in the map codes used on these new chips. Estimate run all over the place so nobody actually knows for sure, best guess is 6 months to a year before the info needed becomes a new file for release.

So what is the FTA manufacturing doing about this?
Some are still under lawsuits now brought by echo star and dn and may not be doing anything at all, but again it is possible some have already hired hackers or paid hackers to break into the G3 encryption systems and this is where we are now. And I would bet you a hundred to a dime that’s a 1000+1 odds that “if and when these codes” are broken and released on the internet we all will know it the same day. And on that day I bet the coders will start working on the solutions to n3 problem A.S.A.P

So until the whole of the internet is busting out with this info "HACK" we will be in the dark. That’s just a fact of life.
Whether this is good news or bad doesn’t matter to me, it’s just the truth about where we stand right now.

I hope this has atleast help explain things alittle more "this is not a rumor" nor perdition of any kind just facts you all need to know. And the last information I can post this week. As I will be in the hospital in on friday for some tests.
Written by: 0dd Thomas

**mikeyb** · 3 February, 2009, 16:56

Thanks a lot. It sounds like people are scared of dave.

**Devilfish** · 3 February, 2009, 17:41

WTF is Dave?

**gmb45** · 3 February, 2009, 17:50

Originally posted by fearona

Trying to answering the N3 question.

I will try and answer this question so many of you want to know, and do this as intelligently and in layman?s terms the best possible way I can so many of our members can understand it. Now I will only uses a few abbreviations in this post so that many of our newbie's can understand what I mean, I will uses this many times (N/A) meaning; North American Market.

Now to start with alot of rumors of coders waiting n3 is fully activated into the stream from each uplink transmission center owned by echo star Inc. I and many others?s underground believe this is false. The only reason all coders working in the FTA industry now have not introduced new codes for any FTA unit now is because they have nothing to work with. None of the n3 encryption information they need have been given to them as of yet. Why?

Well because until a (hacker) or a (group) of hacker's crack's the (G3) card used here in N/A the coders will not even be able to start to write any codes.

Question; so how long will it take?
I wonder; well the question really is will the information be leaked as it was before? Good question and I guess that might depend on how much money one or more companies are willing to pay. Or if the info could or will be leaked out again, and if! And I say this is every unlikely as the (SI) department is watching and guarding this info with their lives.

And might even kill to keep it!
It possible it will never be leaked out, or cracked in the next two years. Why so hard? n1 and n2 were hacked? Why not n3?

Now the best answer to that is because of past (hackers) themselves, the number #1 in Europe has been hired by the company that owns the makers of nagra3 encryption system.

Who is that you ask? Well let?s uses alittle history to answer these questions.

He is Chris Tarnovsky the founding member of the (Black Hat's) a German hacker group that showed many of the worlds hackers just how to break into the security systems of the cards themselves. And now he has been hired by the same company he hacked before, and you know the first thing they wanted to know is (How he hacked their cards).
And what could be gone to (stop hackers) in the future, this is one every good reason hackers in Spain/England and the Eastern Block's have not been able to break into the new Video Guard/Europe codes for the last two years now.

Now then video guards codes used in Europe are different than the codes used here in the states with ***/dn, but the info needed still remains the same. NDS took 6 months (trying) to break into the n2 cards themselves it was until tarnovsky was paid 6 figures that he broke the cards down in less than a week, which blew away NDS big-time. After that all the info needed was gotten from the cards used in a month and coders then used the MAPCALL codes to write the bin files needed. This took about 5 to 6 months to complete. Now coders have several more tools to use in writing codes, this makes it alot faster and easier to write codes now, this is why we have new bin files released in matter of hours not month's or week's nor even days. Most files today are wrote on a complier within minutes and released to the general internet of (broadcaster) within 2 to 4 hours.

Now let me give you alittle history lesson "Rupert Murdoch" owns dtv and (NDS) a subsidiary of the media group news corp. a company setup for the purpose of hacking dn n2 cards, setup in 1999 this in Israeli for the purpose of hacking and releasing the codes over the internet. Why?

Well because he and "Charlie Ergen" the owner of DN tried to merge both their companies twice once in 1997, and again in 2000 and the FCC forced them to stay apart. Why? Because of what many call "Capitalism? or we might call "free market". Guess the government was afraid they would have something called a "MONOPLY" yelpers just like the game, where one company rules the whole industry all over the N/A market. Like the steel industries where in the 1880 here in the US before the feds hacked them apart into alot of little company?s so they could not control the whole north American market and set prices to whatever they wish.

Now since dtv and dn have been in a lawsuit since 2002, which is just now in a federal court in California last month over this very subject. Dtv and dn have been fighting between there selves. This is back to the reason Dtv hacked and released the n2 codes to stab dn right in the back. Why? Well because Rupert Murdoch does not want DN to have a greater market share of satellite tv industry in the US and that pretty much says it all.

Now back to who writes Nagra codes? A company called Kudelski Group owns *********** they are the producers of the Nagra 3 codes, and have invented all 3 of the Nagra codes used in the N/A market since dn/echo star started in the US.

Now what?s been going on in the past week?
Well since Christmas week (all) DTH Satellite uplink centers have been broadcasting both codes at the same time, yes n2/n3 codes. This has some good points to it, meaning that each new (G3) card has both accesses (CW) both (public) and (private) codes for both sets of encrypting the EMMs and CAMs. Coders can use this very small amount of known information to help start a solution on coding eliminators or better known as (FTA) Receivers.

Although I'm absolutely positive that until the private (CW) codes are known the coders are not going to be able to current vent the security encryption of Nagra 3 unless the hackers are successful in peeling away the 3 extra layers of silicone security chips using a powerful electron microscope and several different acids and lasers first until they get to the final precious bottom 3 layers of the Kudelski chip where all the precious codes are hidden. This is the part where only the best hackers (engineers) have the ability to do this type of work.
So please members do not think for one minute that any ?back yard? computer ?guru? hacker can break this type of security system, I?m sorry it just ain?t going to happen. EVER
So what some of us do know is that without Chris Tarnovsky techniques that allow him to break open chip cards that block access to pay TV chains the whole world would still be without paid satellite tv. Is there hope for us yes! ofcourse it is always possible out of the hundreds of labs setup in different countries hackers are working on this problem now.
But remember they have to have several things, first access to (G3) cards, unissued cards open and clean meaning; cards that have not been imbedded with maintenance access codes, and user access codes used to track the customer uses of this system, PPV Events, PPV Movies, ~~~~ and so on. This is very important and requires someone from the inside of the manufacturing department, of the (SI) department itself. But this is not likely to happen with that amount of screening done by the company?s for their personal. And that each person has to allow the company into their lives, banking records, and life styles.

So how long will it take before any group of coders have a fix for n3, well depending on the amount of info on the new (G3) cards they might have to run on a complier for several days, or using (banks of compliers) for several weeks. It?s still unknown the amount of new process in the map codes used on these new chips. Estimate run all over the place so nobody actually knows for sure, best guess is 6 months to a year before the info needed becomes a new file for release.

So what is the FTA manufacturing doing about this?
Some are still under lawsuits now brought by echo star and dn and may not be doing anything at all, but again it is possible some have already hired hackers or paid hackers to break into the G3 encryption systems and this is where we are now. And I would bet you a hundred to a dime that?s a 1000+1 odds that ?if and when these codes? are broken and released on the internet we all will know it the same day. And on that day I bet the coders will start working on the solutions to n3 problem A.S.A.P

So until the whole of the internet is busting out with this info "HACK" we will be in the dark. That?s just a fact of life.
Whether this is good news or bad doesn?t matter to me, it?s just the truth about where we stand right now.

I hope this has atleast help explain things alittle more "this is not a rumor" nor perdition of any kind just facts you all need to know. And the last information I can post this week. As I will be in the hospital in on friday for some tests.
Written by: 0dd Thomas

where theres a will theres a way and where theres money involved theres a bigger will nag 3 will be cracked you can bet your life on it nothing is unbeatable

**smokey_jnr** · 3 February, 2009, 17:55

who's dave...??

**alliv** · 3 February, 2009, 17:57

Originally posted by smokey_jnr

who's dave...??

its rodney from only fools and horses.

**Lanxman** · 3 February, 2009, 17:59

Isn't Dave a channel on VM???

**gmb45** · 3 February, 2009, 18:02

Originally posted by Lanxman

Isn't Dave a channel on VM???

whos this dave geezer then

**red devil** · 3 February, 2009, 22:39

Originally posted by Devilfish

WTF is Dave?

there is a lovely young lass that works down at my local
and she says "Dave" is the nick of a sly young guy she once
dated, mentioning no names

**DW190** · 3 February, 2009, 23:10

Well I'm Dave if that helps.

**Lanxman** · 3 February, 2009, 23:20

Originally posted by DW190

Well I'm Dave if that helps.

You have a lot of people shaking in their boots dave

**kenny the dub** · 20 March, 2009, 01:29

Supply chain ?????????????

When the new list of tool's is ready they will be passed on....Cant let big brother know 2 much about the tactics or they may counter with a sweeper and delay the game!!!

Get my drift!! Heads up >>>>>>>>>>>

**bugaloo41** · 20 March, 2009, 19:34

mikeyb that post is priceless mate - i think i have just pissed myself with laughter.

**westkill** · 20 March, 2009, 19:48

Originally posted by bugaloo41

mikeyb that post is priceless mate - i think i have just pissed myself with laughter.

you have watch out for dodgey dave he sounds dangerous

some interestring nag3 info

some interestring nag3 info

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