The wonderful UK

[firemouth]

Im sick of getting taxed rotten for everything, soon enough at this rate im going to have to pay 12p per litre of air i breathe.

What would happen if 51% of the population just said NO and refused to pay, being a democracy id guess that the tax would have to be abolished due to a majority rule.

I can see your avatar speaks the truth. what would happen if 51% said, NO to paying? 51% of the population would loose their phone and BB connection, is all.

if you are tired of tax, try paying for the stuff we give "free". like your next trip to the doctors, or hospital. yeh, you'll change your tune quick enough if you want the rest of us to pay to save you life,(or that of a loved one). or paying the "true" cost of disposing of your rubbish. or maybe you would like to pay for the education of your kids? all of this is free. paid for by everybody else in the country. don't hear you complaining that its free, but you are all quick enough to complain if you think the care is not up to it. so greedy, ill informed and hypocritical too.
i guess Mjolinor is right. if you lot represent (which you don't, thank god) the view, in the country. its time to go. i will leave you lot to pick the lint off your black shirts.

[Mjolinor]

I can see your avatar speaks the truth. what would happen if 51% said, NO to paying? 51% of the population would loose their phone and BB connection, is all.

if you are tired of tax, try paying for the stuff we give "free". like your next trip to the doctors, or hospital. yeh, you'll change your tune quick enough if you want the rest of us to pay to save you life,(or that of a loved one). or paying the "true" cost of disposing of your rubbish. or maybe you would like to pay for the education of your kids? all of this is free. paid for by everybody else in the country. don't hear you complaining that its free, but you are all quick enough to complain if you think the care is not up to it. so greedy, ill informed and hypocritical too.
i guess Mjolinor is right. if you lot represent (which you don't, thank god) the view, in the country. its time to go. i will leave you lot to pick the lint off your black shirts.

There is a difference between "must have" and "would like to have". Health care, water, sanitary living conditions are what should be paid for and controlled by governments. TV, Internet, cars or any luxury at all should be private and paid for if you want it.

[gmb45]

as ops said if peeps want bb in areas where they cant get it theres always satelite bb, and if the gov says we should all have access to it they should tell the provider to cut the costs so it is affordable, ffs they make enough, as to asking other peeps to subsidise it just isnt on.

[firemouth]

as ops said if peeps want bb in areas where they cant get it theres always satelite bb, and if the gov says we should all have access to it they should tell the provider to cut the costs so it is affordable, ffs they make enough, as to asking other peeps to subsidise it just isnt on.

that's the point. this is to ensure the upgrading of the entire uk communications network. something neglected by its owner (BT), in the chase for dividends for its share holders. in the normal course of business. BT would have done this work, over the last 20 years. the cost being born by BT bill payers. but they didn't, instead they have left the network in need of major upgrading. now they claim they cant afford to do it. so its left to the government. don't blame tax. blame the greed of the company's share holders. because that is where all the money, that should have been used by BT to upgrade, has gone. Oh and on directors benefits and pay.

[Mjolinor]

that's the point. this is to ensure the upgrading of the entire uk communications network. something neglected by its owner (BT), in the chase for dividends for its share holders. in the normal course of business. BT would have done this work, over the last 20 years. the cost being born by BT bill payers. but they didn't, instead they have left the network in need of major upgrading. now they claim they cant afford to do it. so its left to the government. don't blame tax. blame the greed of the company's share holders. because that is where all the money, that should have been used by BT to upgrade, has gone. Oh and on directors benefits and pay.

And you don't see this as the governments fault despite the fact that they sold it in the first place and totally failed to regulate it having sold it?

It is not an essential in life, it is a luxury. If you want it you pay for it. I pay for mine (most of the time )

[thebigman]

What would happen if 51% of the population just said NO and refused to pay, being a democracy id guess that the tax would have to be abolished due to a majority rule.

No the tax wont be abolished, you'll go to jail if you don't pay (mp's will be exempt of course). I can see a day when you'll pay a licence fee for having a broadband connection or mabye they'll lump it onto the tv licence.

thebigman

[chroma]

Satalite broadband is only one way communication, you can "kind of" recieve internet traffic but cant send it.

The upload goes out through your phone line.

"Kind of " in that most commnication is handled over TCP/IP which required both links to be working before anything happens, you send a message to the server, the server sends you one back and you negotiate the connection before you get to do anything.

I have every right to complain about taxes, i dont mind a lot of tax that goes towards something, but take the RBS bailout, now theyve recently announced that there will be around 9000 job cuts which is justifiable in a crisis.
However theyve just appointed a new exec and he's just been awarded a bonus package of 9.6 million?!?!? in what reality is this justifiable?

My taxes are quite blatantly being squandered and the government seems to care less.

As for broadband taxation, its nonsense. It doesnt cost BT anywhere near the line rental per month to supply the line. All this money could be diverted towards upgrading the infrastructure. Give me a few days with their books and i could find the money required to sequentialy upgrade not only the UK but most of Europe and have money left to roll up and use to snort cocain off hookers asses.
Instead i'll be taxed for my connection, and guess what? it wont be regulated once again and another executive will wind up with a large chunk of it in "bonuses."

I dont feel im being greedy or hypocritical in the least, i just want assurances that the money i pay into the system goes towards improving core services for our country instead of being pissed up a rope.
I dont see any need for the exuberant defence budgets that dont do any good, the boys on the ground are still ill equiped despite however much gets haemorrhaged into the system.

Im entirely too tired of tax the majority to service the minority mentality.

A lot of taxes that people pay out generaly evaporate into someones back pocket before anything even remotely usefull can be done with it, and frankly im sick and tired of it.

[firemouth]

And you don't see this as the governments fault despite the fact that they sold it in the first place and totally failed to regulate it having sold it?

It is not an essential in life, it is a luxury. If you want it you pay for it. I pay for mine (most of the time )

where the hell has the "free internet" thing come from. nobody is getting free internet. they will all pay the same as you or me
they pay just the same as you. so why cant they have a connection, just like yours?

I agree its the Greed of BT. who's to blame? well Thatcher sold the jewels, well gave than away really. so no blame to the current government (labour, always were against the sale. its a "purely" conservative act). BT decided they didn't want to upgrade, just pay dividends. but its true, BT could do it, and they wont. so to force them to do it. the government introduced a "ring fenced" levy, which must be used for Network upgrading. so your paying the "tax" . because of the directors and share holder of BT. should you not be complaining for them?

anyway, go for it guys. refuse to pay. it just gives more bandwidth to those of us who will pay. and more band width means faster connections. and just think, for around ?15 a week plus 50p (levy) you could join in too. coz squeal all you like, you will pay, or lose your connection, you have no choice. and that's the rub, no amount of bits down a cable will change a thing. its there and will stay.
And quite right too. i live in a city have access to 20mb+ BB. and see no reason why ?6 per year, is too much to pay, to help everybody, have similar access option to me.

[krazylegz]

what an infantile attitude you all show. greed beyond belief. typical "Maggies minions". no wonder the country is in such a mess, with you lot picking the MP's. "I'm all right jack, F the rest". pathetic, infantile and so very predictable. you seem to think, only rich people live in the country. but i guess that's a artefact of restricted intelligence. and what give you the right to BB, over others? pure selfishness, thats all.

i'm beginning to think your some sort of undercover mp or something, or you just love being the argumentative type.

i agree with the other people on this thread, why should everyone who has a bt phone line have to pay? we pay enough tax in this ~~~~ing country on everything without getting taxed even more.

you are saying its for poor people who cant afford bb, well if they cant afford bb surely they wont be able to afford a pc or lappy will they? what next we'll have some extra tax coming in to pay for a pc for everyone too?

[chroma]

where the hell has the "free internet" thing come from. nobody is getting free internet.

Up till a year or so ago i WAS getting free internet.

As in not costing me a single iota of a penny per month for a 10mb connection, nowadays im sure i could push it even higher (10mb was the limit back then, pushing it via a modified config would wind your line under investigation.)

This is not to say it was strictly legal of course, however thats a moot point.
I know several people who still do get free internet access, some of them on this very forum.

As for ADSL, BT dont actualy supply the best connection, service or speed most of the time. I was getting 24meg down from a 3rd party via LLU, all i paid BT for was line rental for the "last mile" of copper and BT wouldnt even maintain that.

In the past 10 years ive moved around a whole lot (3 different places in a 6 month period sucked ass let me tell you)
Ive moved from dense urban to rural and tried several ISP's cable, satalite and dsl depending. Some of those for "free" i even leeched from a neighbour a mile down the road with a homebrew wifi setup (sketchy at best to be honest but it worked 65% of the time to get the screaming wean on MSN) till i could get proper utilities plumbed in 3 miles as the crow flies to the nearest exchange. Then broadband via copper when your 14miles from the nearest exchange (a nightmare farmhouse literaly in the middle of nowhere) is impossable due to attenuation, just about as impossable as getting BT openreach to run you a line that far out into the countryside (even after obtaining written permission from surrounding properties to run copper and throwing lots of money at them)

Its safe for me to say that ive experienced the entire gamut of what broadband has to offer and paid thousands to run it to properties over the years. I dont see why my government should force me to subsidise someone elses connection when i understand fully the technical limitations of getting some places up to speed. No ammount of money will make any difference.

[farzanahmed]

shame really, used to be quite a decent place to be in.... now you get all the crap and cant trust the people you elect....

[firemouth]

shame really, used to be quite a decent place to be in.... now you get all the crap and cant trust the people you elect....

now then, these people were elected by you lot. so the sad state of the nation is down to you. i just wonder if the actions of MP's don't, more closely, reflect those who voted for them, than you wish to admit. sick immoral MP's voted in by a society that is much the same.
but then you could always leave. "please"

As chroma well knows, my comments on "free Internet" related to the levy/tax. but that would have meant, accepting my comments as correct (nobody will get free internet, from this levy). however, not only can the government make you pay, it has, so job done. if you wish to pay for "everything" that UK residents get "free", paid for by the taxes of others, fine. but don't demand the benefits to yourselves, whilst denying them to others. fortunately you can put up and shut up. as your view is such a minority, your protestations will not even be noticed.

oddly enough, Chroma, others have long experience of BB. some have known how to get "free internet".(for close to a decade) so your long experience, is simply similar to others. and not in the least "special". its also, utterly irrelevant, to the discussion at hand. except perhaps in your mind.

any road, I'm off. you lot can grumble all you like.