Firefighters 'ordered to leave as six die in flats'

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  • gmb45

    #1

    Firefighters 'ordered to leave as six die in flats'

    FIREFIGHTERS battling the Camberwell tower block blaze were forced to pull out by health and safety rules - leaving six victims to die, it has been claimed.

    Heroic rescue crews were on the 11th floor and closing in on a group of trapped residents when the order came to withdraw amid fears of an explosion.

    By the time it was deemed safe to go back in, it was too late to save two women and three children who had sought refuge in a bathroom.

    Trainee teacher Rasheed Nuhu, 46, who earlier fled the bathroom with his family, has criticised the fire service for taking 90 minutes to reach his doomed neighbours.

    And last night an experienced firefighter slammed the health and safety ruling.

    The source said: "I wasn't on this job, but there is growing frustration among my colleagues over health and safety laws.

    "A large gas pipe had fractured inside the block, and because of this a decision was made that it was too dangerous for them to be in there.

    "Under health and safety rules, it may have been the correct decision. But the gas was burning off, so relatively speaking not that dangerous.

    "The threat comes when there is a build-up of gas waiting to be ignited.

    "The guys did not want to quit as they suspected there were still people in there and they were close to them, but they had to obey orders."

    The source, a firefighter for 15 years, added: "Firemen are paid to take risks on behalf of the public, but senior officers are now understandably petrified of having one of their men injured or killed.

    "Ironically, health and safety could be to blame for the deaths of those people."

    Victims Dayana Francisquini, 26, her daughter Thais, six, and son Felipe, three, were in the bathroom with Helen Udoaka, 34, and her three-week-old daughter Michelle.

    Fashion designer Catherine Hickman, 31, was in the flat next door at the 14-storey Lakanal House in Camberwell, South London, last Friday.

    Fire chiefs were criticised at a meeting with survivors.

    Many claimed they only escaped by IGNORING instructions to stay in their homes.

    Dayana's husband Rafael Cervi, 31, attacked the fire brigade's "unwillingness" to rescue his family, saying: "They had masks and oxygen and there were no flames in my flat, why couldn't they go in?"

    London Fire Brigade said: "A full investigation is underway. Firefighters were at the scene in minutes and rescued 40 people."
  • .: JaCkPoT :.
    Retired Sat TV Addict
    • Aug 2008
    • 5607

    #2
    What a Shame..the risk is part of the job they agreed to when starting as a fire brigade

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    • opsmonkey
      V.I.P. Member
      • Nov 2008
      • 5379

      #3
      this is a very sad story but i have no time for firemen after the strikes the other year.. demanding a 39% pay rise to increase their wage to ?30k a year..!! They get 6 months off a year and many have second jobs..

      Originally posted by gmb45
      .......And last night an experienced firefighter slammed the health and safety ruling.

      The source said: "I wasn't on this job, but there is growing frustration among my colleagues over health and safety laws....
      H & S didnt bother them when they were striking and putting the lives of the public at risk..

      Imagine if the Police, Military or Ambulance service went on strike, which thankfully we're not allowed to do by law....!

      I see their apparent willingness to strike and put others' lives at risk as a form of extortion..


      They were quite happy to strike and let the military do thier job for no extra money and in the middle of Operations in Afghanisitan..

      I personally witnessed fires started deliberately and striking firemen being on the scene abusing Military personnel..

      Also in serious cases the FBU (Fire Brigade Union) refused to let Military personnel use life saving equipment stored in the normal fire stations..
      Last edited by opsmonkey; 9 July, 2009, 01:55.

      Comment

      • chroma
        V.I.P. Member
        • Feb 2009
        • 1976

        #4
        Originally posted by opsmonkey
        this is a very sad story but i have no time for firemen after the strikes the other year.. demanding a 39% pay rise to increase their wage to ?30k a year..!! They get 6 months off a year and many have second jobs..



        H & S didnt bother them when they were striking and putting the lives of the public at risk..

        Imagine if the Police, Military or Ambulance service went on strike, which thankfully we're not allowed to do by law....!

        I see their apparent willingness to strike and put others' lives at risk as a form of extortion..


        They were quite happy to strike and let the military do thier job for no extra money and in the middle of Operations in Afghanisitan..

        I personally witnessed fires started deliberately and striking firemen being on the scene abusing Military personnel..

        Also in serious cases the FBU (Fire Brigade Union) refused to let Military personnel use life saving equipment stored in the normal fire stations..
        H & S had nothing to do with the strikes, no law prevented the action, in this case however the law written by idiot beurocrats has essentialy murdered 6 people, guaranteed that these same beurocrats are on well over a firemans wage and have nowhere near the same risks.

        All strikes are EXTORTION, extortion is nessisary to improve your lot in life, you effectively have to motivate the opposition into action by force. People dont ever "want" to resort to a strike action. sometimes its nessisary when all other avenues are expunged.

        As for people getting a hard time once the strike was on? screw em! Dont want to be treated as a scab? Dont cross a picket line then. Fairly simple.

        AVG fully trained fireman (4ys service to fully qualified) = ?21,531 per year
        Bear in mind that unlike the rest of Europe our boys dont get allowances (like unsociable hours pay) or any kind of overtime rates.
        So whilst on paper it looks like a lot of the Norther Irish, French and the Danes get less, thats basic rate, once you load in unsociable hours and overtime bonuses they make a fair whack more.

        ?10.35ish per hour is a pittance to risk your life over.
        He who laughs last thinks slowest.

        Comment

        • opsmonkey
          V.I.P. Member
          • Nov 2008
          • 5379

          #5
          Originally posted by chroma

          As for people getting a hard time once the strike was on? screw em! Dont want to be treated as a scab? Dont cross a picket line then. Fairly simple.
          so your calling the military scabs are you..???

          we were tasked by the govt. to cover striking firemen.. we cant pick and choose the tasks we undertake mate.. if so then i dont think many of us would have gone to Iraq and Afghanistan..

          As for quote about firemans pay..

          Tell that to an 18 year old infantry man who, instead of returning home from operations in Afghanistan they had to cover these idiots who were on strike.. All for a poxy ?16k a year..

          Firemen should think themselves lucky.. their job isnt even in the top 24 of dangerous occupations due to the kit they have.. kit they refused the military access to when peoples lives were in danger..

          As for people striking.. yes i can understand it, but when you work in the emergency services then its not on.. they knew the risks to the public about lack of fire cover and they still did it..
          Last edited by opsmonkey; 9 July, 2009, 10:53.

          Comment

          • chroma
            V.I.P. Member
            • Feb 2009
            • 1976

            #6
            Yeah unfortunately im calling the military scabs in this instance.
            Id rather wnd up coutrmarshaled and locked up in jail than cross a picket.

            Most of my family is from a coal miner community though and even to this day people can name the people who crossed the lines, several generations on.

            You can always pick how muh shit you want to take in yor life, dont want to take it then walk away. dont get me wrong i feel the military does a bang up job and have nothing but respect and admiration for the guys, its the stupid morons at the top ive got the issues with.

            As for only being on 16k a year, thats easy to remedy, dont do the job. File your discharge papers, when they've no longer got anyone willing to work for a pittance the only alternative is to up the wage.

            That being said though the living expenses of an 18yr old private is nowhere near the expenses of a 25yr old firefighter.

            And part of strike action is witholding your gear, it would be pointless to strike if they could just place a new team of greenies in place. this would stretch the action for even longer and risk far more lives over the long term.

            As for the public? screw them too. a strike wold never have taken place with a large public backing, instead you had people too apathetic to do anything.
            Sure you got millions out marching to protest the war (not that that made a difference) but when it comes to issues on our own doorstep the majority of the country is more interested in big brother or pop idol.
            He who laughs last thinks slowest.

            Comment

            • cgscott
              V.I.P. Member
              • Jul 2008
              • 3513

              #7
              I covered for the Liverpool Fire Service when they went on a 4 week strike in 2001.

              We were raped by the media to begin with saying we weren't up to the job but after the 4 week strike ended there was nothing but praise.

              Not once did any of us moan at the 24hour on 12 off routine that was put in place.

              But as for the Fire Brigade as ops said 6 months a year work and twice the salary of a soldier.

              Disgusting.
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              Patience is a virtue.

              Comment

              • opsmonkey
                V.I.P. Member
                • Nov 2008
                • 5379

                #8
                Originally posted by chroma
                Yeah unfortunately im calling the military scabs in this instance.
                Id rather wnd up coutrmarshaled and locked up in jail than cross a picket.

                Most of my family is from a coal miner community though and even to this day people can name the people who crossed the lines, several generations on.

                You can always pick how muh shit you want to take in yor life, dont want to take it then walk away. dont get me wrong i feel the military does a bang up job and have nothing but respect and admiration for the guys, its the stupid morons at the top ive got the issues with.

                As for only being on 16k a year, thats easy to remedy, dont do the job. File your discharge papers, when they've no longer got anyone willing to work for a pittance the only alternative is to up the wage.

                That being said though the living expenses of an 18yr old private is nowhere near the expenses of a 25yr old firefighter.

                And part of strike action is witholding your gear, it would be pointless to strike if they could just place a new team of greenies in place. this would stretch the action for even longer and risk far more lives over the long term.

                As for the public? screw them too. a strike wold never have taken place with a large public backing, instead you had people too apathetic to do anything.
                Sure you got millions out marching to protest the war (not that that made a difference) but when it comes to issues on our own doorstep the majority of the country is more interested in big brother or pop idol.
                i guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one but thats the beauty of us humans.. if everyone thought the same we'd live in a boring world

                Comment

                • chroma
                  V.I.P. Member
                  • Feb 2009
                  • 1976

                  #9
                  Originally posted by opsmonkey
                  i guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one but thats the beauty of us humans.. if everyone thought the same we'd live in a boring world
                  Dinner conversations would also be completely boring.
                  He who laughs last thinks slowest.

                  Comment

                  • stan7632
                    Junior Member
                    • Feb 2009
                    • 21

                    #10
                    Originally posted by opsmonkey
                    i guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one but thats the beauty of us humans.. if everyone thought the same we'd live in a boring world

                    I disagree with this moron. He is spouting crap. He has no idea about the workings of the fire brigade and despite his name Opsmonkey I doubt he has military training either. I have both. 10 years Royal artillery and 28 Fire Brigade now retired.
                    Opsmonkey, I maty get banned but don't care. You are a ****er and your views are shit. I know I have been in both camps. Twat
                    Yours Stan

                    Comment

                    • chroma
                      V.I.P. Member
                      • Feb 2009
                      • 1976

                      #11
                      Originally posted by stan7632
                      I disagree with this moron. He is spouting crap. He has no idea about the workings of the fire brigade and despite his name Opsmonkey I doubt he has military training either. I have both. 10 years Royal artillery and 28 Fire Brigade now retired.
                      Opsmonkey, I maty get banned but don't care. You are a ****er and your views are shit. I know I have been in both camps. Twat
                      Yours Stan
                      Disagreeing with a persons point of view is one thing. Turning it into a personal attack on a person is entirely another.
                      I didnt agree with his point of view and he didnt agree with mine, both of us where mature enough however to refrain from any personal attacks towards one another and enjoy the argument.

                      Your statement however was entirely over the score.
                      He who laughs last thinks slowest.

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