Off topic..Gordan Brown

[chroma]

More than that at today's prices we are now apparantly that was half of our gold reserves. now we owe ?770 Billion.none of us here will live to pay it back........

Speak for yourself!
Ive got so much work to do that i doubt if im ever going to get the chance to die.

[alexics]

Gordon Brown anagrams as Donor B Wrong. Also Borrow Dong. As the Dong is the unit of currency of vietnam this is quite apt. As we will soon be the third world country getting hand outs from them.

[calvin plummer]

Gordon Brown says he has “has nothing to apologise for” about the recession. I think he has a point.
For one thing, the UK economy, so far, is not doing especially badly. Yes, the 1.5% fall in UK GDP in Q4 was worse than that suffered by France or Canada, but its less than that suffered by the US (1.6%), Italy (1.8%), Germany (2.1%), or Japan (3.3%). By G7 standards, then, we’re doing OK. Only a silly little Englander can believe this is an unusually British recession.
What’s more, it’s not obvious what exactly Brown is to blame for. The allegations don’t stack up. For example:
1) “Brown put the wrong regulatory regime in place in 1997.” But if we’d had a different regime we’d probably be asking now why that one failed. Banking crises are common around the world and over time. They are an “equal opportunity menace”. That they happen so often, despite so many different regulatory regimes (including freeish markets) suggests that regulatory failure is common.
Banks would have circumvented regulators, by offshore or off-balance sheet vehicles.
What’s more, there are two groups of people who have overseen banks over the last 10 years who could have but didn’t see the crisis coming - equity investors and non-executive directors. If they failed, why should we assume that regulators could have done better?
There’s something paradoxical about Brown’s critics, who are usually so (rightly) sceptical about the competence of the state believing that, in this instance, the state might have had sufficient competence.
2) “Brown’s lax fiscal policy in the good years means we can’t afford a sufficient stimulus now.” But it’s not obvious that fiscal policy would work even if it were bigger and starting from a smaller deficit; Ricardian equivalence would not be much less powerful then than it is now.
What’s more, any stimulus now can only ameliorate the recession. To have prevented the recession, we’d have needed a stimulus a year ago. But no-one was calling for one then. A big problem with fiscal policy - getting the timing of the stimulus right - would apply, whatever position the public finances had been in. In fact Gordon drove through the world’s stimulus package
3) “In pursuing inflation targeting without asset price targeting, Brown put in place a policy framework in which low interest rates allowed a house price bubble to emerge.”
But let’s say interest rates had been used to limit house price rises. Manufacturers would then have been screaming about their pain, and those people fretting now about the perils of deflation would have been doing so back in 2003-04. And if house prices are not net wealth - and have little impact on consumer spending - what would have been the offsetting gain? Macroeconomic policy should not be organized so as to protect a particular industry (banks) from its own stupidity.
4) “The macroeconomic stability Brown crowed about so much when Chancellor led, in Minskyan fashion, to banks becoming too risk-tolerant.”
But Brown didn’t create that stability - he just took credit for what was just luck. And, surely, no-one thinks any Chancellor should destabilize the economy merely to rein in future animal spirits.
It’s not obvious, then, what charge against Brown can stick. Yes, I think he should have nationalized the banks earlier - but that’s the hindsight bias talking. And yes, he’s guilty by association because he is a big fan of the top-down hierarchical structures that contributed to banks’ failures. But I don’t think Tories can consistently share my criticisms.
Of course, there’s tons to rightly blame Brown for - his wasteful spending, his government’s contempt for the rule of law, its failure to pursue equality more rigorously, its attack on freedom, its lies and cover-ups about the Iraq war and torture. But he’s not responsible for the crisis. It is perhaps the only thing he shouldn’t apologize for.


I've tried to simplfy this but really some of the uneducated opinion on here is frustrating, rant away but at least have an understanding of basic economics and fiscal policy

[alec]

Brown the head in the clouds fool.
He inherited a fantastic economy, and he kept to Tories spending plans for the first 2 years, so that he was able to repay national debt of 10 Billion. The papers started calling him the iron chancellor.
He then started to give money to inefficent public services without reform;so despite Billions poured into them they are even more inefficient. Since 2002, Labour have run up deficits, which means the country was spending more that it was earning.
Allowed credit to get out of control, so we were the worst country in the G20 to weather a recession. He taxed the pension system. so there are now in a complete mess.
The financal system he set up was a complete joke, and the the people running the bankrupt banks, were allowed to go with their assets. One could write lists of what that fool has inflicted on this country. He also borrowed 8 Billion to give to those dictators in Africa. The man is a complete fool. Anyone defending him, just do not know the facts. I could also mention PFI's over 200 Billions we still owe. Since 2002 UK has been living in the clouds. The party is over, and it is time to pay.

[nush]

i think you will find as always under the conservatives its time for the working class to pay.
public sector workers that voted this pile in deserve what they are about to get.
not sure how mr brown is to blame for a world recession but i cant see how we can afford to get out of the crisis by putting 3 million people out of work and having to pay benefits rather than receiving tax from those people.
we will see in a couple of years how the conservatives and the collaboration party are doing, bet they are richer and the majority of uk people are poorer.
nush

[alexics]

Basically this recession comes down to over lending. Giving people mortgages at 10 times their salary!! This is precarious. But who caused it? There was a mass sell off of council housing during the Thatcher years where the right to buy was imprinted on peoples brains. A house then became an 'investment'. This allowed estate agents to push up values by telling clients they could get a little more for their property under this investment mentality. However as ALL house prices were going up this presented a level playing field that negated any investment unless the seller downgraded to a smaller property. This would have benefited those reaching retirement age but not the average family wishing to move up the ladder.

For something as essential as a home to be seen as an investment is an absurd concept. Dreamed up by those who would never experience the financial difficulties a mortgage would bring during hard times.

We are all to blame for buying into this false concept.

P.S. Just take a look at the effect it has also had on the rental market.

[alec]

We are not all to blame, the Government are to there regulate if things are going out of control. You cannot borrow 100% mortgage in Germany or France for example. I and many other people are not up to the eyeballs in debt. Brown and Labour let recklessness credit get out of control, because they were reckless. Labour are only good at spending other people's money.

[bobwill]

?has

I've tried to simplfy this but really some of the uneducated opinion on here is frustrating, rant away but at least have an understanding of basic economics and fiscal policy

Are you sure you are not gordon brown as this is the sort of thing he would say or bigot and I am not uneducated and I have a basic understanding of economics no 1 is balance you books or you will go broke.
people like you who think brown was perfect is very frustrating to to rest of us who have got to pay for his mistakes. when some one on 50 grand can claim tax credits you dont have to ask why this country is broke

[leez]

are yous conservative voters

sick now ...well done you sent back to the thatcher era ,

the rich get richer the poor get poorer.


did yous what andrew darlings speech on bbc 2 on wednesday night ,


i hope yous are well proud of yourself .




our country is ~~~~ed nnow.

[nush]

our country is ~~~~ed nnow.

unless you are one of the top 5%
i will never understand why working people vote for this rabble.
nush

[alexics]

unless you are one of the top 5%
i will never understand why working people vote for this rabble.
nush

It wouldn't have mattered who got elected.

[bobwill]

unless you are one of the top 5%
i will never understand why working people vote for this rabble.
nush

labour helps the working man you have to be joking in 1997 min wage was ?3.60 my local solicitors charged ?60 pounds per hour after 13years min wage is ?5.80 my local solicitors are charging ?225 per hour where min wage has not doubled solicitors is nearly 4 times as much and it is the same with all so called professional people. Labour flooded the country with foreign workers to keep the working mans wages down,I have not been able to get more money for the past 4 years because of poles cutting the wages The labour party hates the working man and I have always been better off under torys the only people who are better off with labour are the workshy, those on benefits and the so called professionals people,there is to many people working for the state and a cut is over due

[melloned]

tell you what i can't understand..
gordon brown is scottish, and we are tighter than a ducks arse... (i can vouch for that).
so how come he spent all the ~~~~in money?????????

Because it wasn't his , it was ours Mate !