Libya

**opsmonkey** · 20 March, 2011, 22:58

Originally posted by cablefreejunkie

of course we have no idea where you work or what you know,but seeing as you know a lot more than most on the subject why not enlighten us rather than slagging people off who have an opinion
on the subject,

ok then no probs.. oh wait.. i signed something so I'm not about to loose my pension rights on here

**smirnoff_rules** · 20 March, 2011, 22:58

his seen more service than we ever will ,,

not saying he knows all the facts but his closer to it that me anyway

anyone that sees friends come back in coffins and still goes back is a hero in my books

**flyingpig** · 20 March, 2011, 23:06

Originally posted by opsmonkey

it's not an invasion.. it's direct targeting of specific installations to ensure air supremacy..

Rather than argue over the semantics, it is still wrong fro us to interfere.

We could spin this round that in 30 years time when there are more Muslims in this country than Christians then a Muslim country may want to support a Muslim uprising by bombing the Christian defences - how would you feel if that happened?

**opsmonkey** · 20 March, 2011, 23:13

The uprising has nothing to do with religion, but all to do with the people of a country choosing to dispose a dictatorship and in turn that dictatorship hitting them with masses of firepower..

If we are run by dictators in 30 years time then fairplay to anyone who wants to start an uprising..

Why have you turned the argument into Muslim v Christian..?

**flyingpig** · 20 March, 2011, 23:21

Because I wanted to provide an example - I am not saying it is about religion - nor alluding to it, as it clearly is not. I merely used an example of were it was possible for 2 absolute opposite ends of the spectrum to be in a position where a similarity in a support to over throw a regime could be gained.

A democracy is a dictatorship by majority. It is for the people to sort out - not us.

**opsmonkey** · 20 March, 2011, 23:27

how can the people sort it out when they are being hit with their own governments artillery and air power..?

**flyingpig** · 20 March, 2011, 23:35

Originally posted by opsmonkey

how can the people sort it out when they are being hit with their own governments artillery and air power..?

Therein lies the democracy within a dictatorship.

If more people within the country want a change then the change shall happen just by the want of the people. The people who are the soldiers, the people who are the workers, the people who want change will have to want it. If there are not enough people then there is no change, therefore the majority want to stick with the dictator, and who are we to say that it is wrong?

The soldiers who are carrying out the orders of the regime obviously believe in them otherwise they would not turn against their own people (well the vast majority do anyhoos).

**badapple** · 21 March, 2011, 00:07

Originally posted by opsmonkey

If you were privy to what I know then you would have a different idea..

If you dont know ALL the evidence you shouldn't really comment, because you're giving an opinion based on half truths..

No disrespect m8.
You claim to be privy to evidence/information, in that case, you would have know in advance all the bulls**t lies that the USA & UK told us about Iraq.
Yet YOU choose to keep quiet, knowing they were lies.

Our then leaders took this country to war on lies of WMDs.
I dont know if youve been to Iraq or not, but tell me this
Did anybody find any WMDs which could be ready to fire within 45 minures?

I dont think you also know the whole truth m8, as these decisions are made high up, in secret & behind closed doors.

**opsmonkey** · 21 March, 2011, 00:12

Originally posted by badapple

No disrespect m8.
You claim to be privy to evidence/information, in that case, you would have know in advance all the bulls**t lies that the USA & UK told us about Iraq.
Yet YOU choose to keep quiet, knowing they were lies.

Our then leaders took this country to war on lies of WMDs.
I dont know if youve been to Iraq or not, but tell me this
Did anybody find any WMDs which could be ready to fire within 45 minures?

I dont think you also know the whole truth m8, as these decisions are made high up, in secret & behind closed doors.

Have i been to Iraq.. yes and Afghanistan
Did anyone in the military (British) actually think Saddam had WMDs.. No, we all knew it was Bush finishing his dads war..

as for your last paragraph.. I wont tell you my name, where exactly I work or what I do but i can tell you where such closed doors are.. If you ask nicely I can also tell you the colour scheme of the walls

Ministry of Defence | About Defence | What we do | Doctrine Operations and Diplomacy | PJHQ | The Permanent Joint Headquarters (PJHQ)

**Snowy79** · 21 March, 2011, 00:15

You can have as many people wanting a change in a country as you can get but if they are up against armed soldiers you're onto a loser. As for the West invading and killing innocent people I'm probably missing something but aren't Libians curently killing innocent people. The only difference I can see is the West and Arab League are killing people to give democracy a chance. Once the armed thugs are out of the way we'll see if the West and Arab Leagues step back and let a non violent leadership take over. If the West or anyone else hang around then they deserve the grief they get.

**Snowy79** · 21 March, 2011, 00:28

Like Ops Monkey I've also had my fair share of giggs and contrary to popular belief a lot of Military personnel know more about what's going on than those back home. The TV reports only cover a fraction of what is happening and even some of those that think they are involved in decisiojn making are just used to put a public face on what's going on.

Oil and trade does play a large part in where countries get involved but so does the threat from a country. It just happens that countries with oil and natural resources have the finances to become a greater threat and as such sometimes someone has to do something about them before it gets out of hand.

Saudi is pretty safe as the Royal Family are easily bought. Ghadaffi on the other hand is a loose cannon. The other Arab Nations can see this and this and is why they support the West in this instance.

**flyingpig** · 21 March, 2011, 00:34

Originally posted by opsmonkey

Have i been to Iraq.. yes and Afghanistan
Did anyone in the military (British) actually think Saddam had WMDs.. No, we all knew it was Bush finishing his dads war..

as for your last paragraph.. I wont tell you my name, where exactly I work or what I do but i can tell you where such closed doors are.. If you ask nicely I can also tell you the colour scheme of the walls

Ministry of Defence | About Defence | What we do | Doctrine Operations and Diplomacy | PJHQ | The Permanent Joint Headquarters (PJHQ)

I too have worked for the military (a long time ago) - possibly on a different side to you. Some of the places I have been in are Longtown, Buckimgham Palace, British Embassies, various submarines and warships, I have a picture of me and my pal under an SR71 Blackbird, and I know the cock and bull stuff the propaganda that comes out of it.

**badapple** · 21 March, 2011, 00:50

"Did anyone in the military (British) actually think Saddam had WMDs.. No, we all knew it was Bush finishing his dads war.."

YET the whole of the British military was ordered & went to war.
This was only to forfill the ambitions of Bush senior.

Did the British leadership have no brains to make up their own minds/decisions about something this important?

Did the British have NO intelligence of their own?

I clearely remember our then leader Tony Blair stand in the house of parliement and say to the whole country, he had seen evidence/proof of WMDs.
(he did not say, by the way, Bush senior & Bush junior told me so)

Why did the military leadership then NOT come forward and say this was a total LIE?

...and sorry to OP as this thread is suppose to be about what is going on in Libya.

**opsmonkey** · 21 March, 2011, 00:54

the targets have all been military targets that are either GBAD related or direct threats against citizens.. Libyan Tanks, APC, road blocks etc en route to Benghazi..

It's nowhere near the scale of the 'shock and awe' strike as the strikes have a different mission..

The strikes are purely to push back Libyan Military assets attacking civilians in the break-a-way towns

@badapple.. the senior British Military leaders made it perfectly clear that they though it was a mistake to take the CIA evidence as true and unequivocal..

The Military isn't some sort of Trotsky socialist union and is there to take orders from the elected government

**Grizz** · 21 March, 2011, 01:30

Originally posted by A K

Who or what country let the Pan Am Bomber out because he was dying? Is he dead yet?

Scotland and no he is not dead yet but reported to be released from hospital and living with his family. there was speculation that he was release due to pressure from BP

BBC News - Hillary Clinton raises Lockerbie bomber concerns

BP confirmed it did press for a PTA because it was aware that a delay might have "negative consequences" for UK commercial interests.
But the firm said it was not involved in any discussions regarding Megrahi's release.

Oil oil oil, never mind the children that will go hungry, if they are lucky, and die if they arent....................

Libya

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