If Ireland Asserts Sovereignty, Bye-Bye Empire

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  • cablefreejunkie
    DK Veteran
    • Jul 2008
    • 1717

    #1

    If Ireland Asserts Sovereignty, Bye-Bye Empire

    If Ireland Asserts Sovereignty, Bye-Bye Empire
    March 22, 2011 ? 11:20AM

    "If the Irish government does what it says it intends to do, which is its legitimate right, which is to deny their obligations to meet the debt of foreign banking institutions operating on Irish soil, run by the British Empire's Inter-Alpha Group, that means the toppling of the entire damned system," Lyndon LaRouche stated yesterday.

    In the countdown to the upcoming March 24-25 EU summit, which is intended to formalize London's insane hyperinflationary bailout package for their banks operating in various EU countries ?such as Ireland, Greece, Portugal and Spain?the new Irish government of Enda Kenny has made it clear that it will meet the government's sovereign obligations, but that it cannot pay the debts incurred by foreign banks operating in Ireland.

    "We have to make that rude distinction," LaRouche insisted today. "These are non-Irish banks. This is not an Irish debt. It is the debt of foreign banks which have been operating in Ireland. Ireland is going to default on obligations to pay the non-Irish debt, which is the debt of the Inter-Alpha Group. These debts that are being demanded be paid by the Irish government, are not debts of the Irish government. They are debts of a foreign private banking system?the British banking system. They are not debts of the Irish, and that's what has to be said.

    "The claims of the Inter-Alpha Group are implicitly fraudulent. The debts were not incurred by the Irish nation, the Irish government. They were incurred by foreigners, whose loyalties are not to the Irish nation. Their accountability is not to the Irish nation?quite the contrary. They are saying the Irish nation is accountable for the debts of foreigners. The Irish nation is not accountable for debts of foreigners.

    "Now the significance of that is: If the Irish stick to the truth, which is their right, if they exert their rights, saying that the debts of foreign banks are not the debts of the Irish government, then what happens to Portugal, to Spain, and what is the consequence beyond that, to the existing condition in Greece, and to the potential explosion in Italy?

    "This issue is the equivalent of Glass-Steagall, but it does not depend on the U.S. Glass-Steagall law. It depends on the right of Ireland to distinguish between what is the debt of its government, incurred by its government, and the debt of a foreign bank operating in Ireland. That's the difference.

    "What this means is, that if the Irish uphold the principal of national sovereignty, then what if Portugal and Spain do the same? Now admittedly, Portugal and Spain are more vulnerable politically, in the sense that they are more sloppy on this than the Irish have been. But nonetheless, if they are pushed to the wall, then Portugal and Spain will have to follow the Irish example, and say that the Spanish government is responsible for the debt of the Spanish government?that is, the debts incurred by the Spanish government, voluntarily. Any debt which is not voluntarily incurred by a government, as a government debt, is called into question, as a matter of principal.

    "That means if Portugal and Spain assert that they are nation-states, and that they are not merely subject to some supra-national rule, then you have a collision between the existence of the nation-state and the supra-national entity, which is the bank of the Euro system.

    "And what's Greece going to do, if Spain and Portugal do that? Because, first of all, Greece will not be isolated, because other nations are doing it, and Italy is about to go in the bucket. Now, if Greece, Italy, Spain, and Portugal go out of the system, what happens to the euro system?

    "Bye-bye, Inter-Alpha Group. Bye-bye, BRIC, which is the bad bank for the Inter-Alpha Group. You've got a chain-reaction collapse of a bankrupt system
    The control of information is the consolidation of power

    ?I care not what puppet is placed on the throne of England to rule the Empire. The man who controls Britain?s money supply controls the British Empire and I control the British money supply.? ? Nathan Rothschild



    IF I HELPED HIT THE THANKS BUTTON
  • Evastar
    V.I.P. Member
    • Apr 2009
    • 1220

    #2
    very interesting post. and at the end of the day, why should the ordinary people of ireland be held responsible for the greed of the fatcat bankers. after all when they were making all the money they weren't offering to give us any of their profits. so it's a bit strange that we are expected to bail them all out.

    Comment

    • patkins
      V.I.P. Member
      • Oct 2009
      • 3662

      #3
      Our State TV is financed from the license fee and is, as a consequence, gagged by Government. RTE has failed to report the run on the banks before and after Christmas 2010 when billions of euro were withdrawn, not only by local and national investors, but also by numerous foreign investors.
      This country is on the brink of default but Ministers who are rubbing shoulders with their European counterparts don't want to be seen as poverty stricken while they are the best paid lot in Europe. Yet, they're prepared to close hospitals and inflict scrooge like hardship on the most vunerable in Irish society to keep the myth alive.

      Comment

      • Snowy79
        DK Veteran
        • Jan 2011
        • 1347

        #4
        The big problem I can see if they refuse to pay the debt is a trade war and unfortunately Ireland isn't a major exporter so could get bitten.

        Other Countries may also withhold subsidies after all it's not their Country.

        Comment

        • oneman
          DK Veteran
          • Mar 2011
          • 307

          #5
          Originally posted by Evastar
          very interesting post. and at the end of the day, why should the ordinary people of ireland be held responsible for the greed of the fatcat bankers. after all when they were making all the money they weren't offering to give us any of their profits. so it's a bit strange that we are expected to bail them all out.
          These foreign banks are in trouble because irish people and business borrowed money that they could not afford to pay back.

          Long term problem is that you have a danger that foreign companies will stop investing.

          Comment

          • mtv1
            The Stig PT
            • Apr 2008
            • 4413

            #6
            Originally posted by Snowy79
            The big problem I can see if they refuse to pay the debt is a trade war and unfortunately Ireland isn't a major exporter so could get bitten.

            Other Countries may also withhold subsidies after all it's not their Country.
            not being picky m8 but only for our exports we be sunk 2 years ago , if we were in France or Germany the ports would be blocked , but we not like that , its about time the small people got up like dare i say it the English and protest against the fools no matter who ff fg lab sf all of em , i'm proud to be Irish but i'm not proud of our so called gov , ****ers rant over sorry if i offended anyone


            >>>>>>>>>>Dreambox Tools<<<<<<<<<<

            Comment

            • AbsoluteFire
              Member
              • Mar 2010
              • 78

              #7
              Originally posted by oneman
              These foreign banks are in trouble because irish people and business borrowed money that they could not afford to pay back.

              Long term problem is that you have a danger that foreign companies will stop investing.

              I agree completely the Irish government appears to be saying don't bother investing here, I'm quite glad at the moment that the UK isn't in the euro.

              I find it arrogant in a world economy for a Government to take that stance.

              Don't forget that one of the biggest banks in the UK is Spanish, so if they get into trouble the Spanish government will have to bail them out, but wait, as a 'poor' country in the EU Spain gets quite a lot of cash from the kitty. Paid for by who? Yes, the UK and Ireland amongst others.

              Comment

              • Evastar
                V.I.P. Member
                • Apr 2009
                • 1220

                #8
                Originally posted by oneman
                These foreign banks are in trouble because irish people and business borrowed money that they could not afford to pay back.

                Long term problem is that you have a danger that foreign companies will stop investing.
                well i personally didn't borrow any money, and i know quite a few people in the same boat, yet we are the ones expected to pay it back?

                also they are meant to be professionals and have lending criteria, there was a stage here when they were practically throwing credit cards at you, i would get letters in the post all the time offering loans, practically no questions asked. not very good business practice is it?

                Comment

                • Grizz
                  DK Veteran
                  • Sep 2010
                  • 1598

                  #9
                  you, and the majority of people in the country, Eva.
                  i must be missing something because as i see it, all these banks were private entities and if outside banks/investors lent to them it is the fault of the people who sign the agreements on both sides. they were investing for profit and the made foolish choices. why should, you, me and every other Irish person have to suffer to bail out private companies. if Tesco/Lidl/Roche Group/whoever goes bust in the morning are we gonna end up having to pay for them too. AARRRGGGG

                  Comment

                  • Snowy79
                    DK Veteran
                    • Jan 2011
                    • 1347

                    #10
                    Got to admit as far as I see it they were private companies and lent money to dodgy investors. I just wish the Governments had allowed them to fail. The government could then seize their assets to pay off debts. WHere the money is tied up in Mortgages etc then sell this on as bad debt at a reduced price to other competitors. Some will profit by having their Mortgages written off saving them money but I'm sure they will spend that money elsewhere. Ultimately it will all come back into the economy.

                    As for the Irish Government saying they are thinking about not paying Foreign Banks debt I'm sure they'll find as has been highlighted the money was lent to Irish people. I'm sure there will be Foreign Companies leaving in droves if this happens.

                    Comment

                    • oneman
                      DK Veteran
                      • Mar 2011
                      • 307

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Snowy79
                      Got to admit as far as I see it they were private companies and lent money to dodgy investors. I just wish the Governments had allowed them to fail. The government could then seize their assets to pay off debts. WHere the money is tied up in Mortgages etc then sell this on as bad debt at a reduced price to other competitors. Some will profit by having their Mortgages written off saving them money but I'm sure they will spend that money elsewhere. Ultimately it will all come back into the economy.

                      As for the Irish Government saying they are thinking about not paying Foreign Banks debt I'm sure they'll find as has been highlighted the money was lent to Irish people. I'm sure there will be Foreign Companies leaving in droves if this happens.
                      Why would anybody have the mortgage written off if the lender fails. Whoever buys the debt would still be looking at recovering the money.

                      Also how important is the financial sector for Ireland, could the goverment afford for it to fail ?

                      Comment

                      • Canker_Canison
                        V.I.P. Member
                        • May 2010
                        • 3905

                        #12
                        Originally posted by oneman
                        Why would anybody have the mortgage written off if the lender fails. Whoever buys the debt would still be looking at recovering the money.

                        Also how important is the financial sector for Ireland, could the goverment afford for it to fail ?

                        Just to add to this......

                        You have a mortgage with bank A. They go bankrupt due to other people not paying their debts.
                        So bank A sells it's assets to Bank F, including your mortgage. Bank F decides to up the interest on your repayments to make more money in order to recoup the money they paid to buy your mortgage.
                        You can't afford the new repayments & nobody else is lending money because they are all in the same boat. You are now stuck with Bank F.
                        Bank F forecloses the mortgage & repossesses your home as you miss a single payment.
                        Canker

                        "Animal, vegetable or mineral... I'll do anything, to anything, with anything"
                        - The Baby Eating Bishop of Bath & Wells
                        [COLOR=Green]

                        Comment

                        • cablefreejunkie
                          DK Veteran
                          • Jul 2008
                          • 1717

                          #13
                          i have many relatives in the emerald isle,and i have been told that sinn fein were saying the very same thing as what my post is saying,do not pay the debt,its a foreign debt created by foreign entities operating in ireland,
                          The control of information is the consolidation of power

                          ?I care not what puppet is placed on the throne of England to rule the Empire. The man who controls Britain?s money supply controls the British Empire and I control the British money supply.? ? Nathan Rothschild



                          IF I HELPED HIT THE THANKS BUTTON

                          Comment

                          • daithi
                            V.I.P. Member
                            • May 2009
                            • 2586

                            #14
                            if i go to the bookies in the morning and blow all my money just like these foreign investors did
                            theres nobody to give me my money back
                            so why should theses ~~~~ heads get theres back
                            the most of them are insured so will probably get paid back twice now
                            once by insurance company and eventually by the irish

                            we should of defaulted at the start like the icelanders

                            Comment

                            • Grizz
                              DK Veteran
                              • Sep 2010
                              • 1598

                              #15
                              i was listening about one of these investors on the radio a few weeks ago and the exact words used were "couldnt believe his luck" that the government acted the way they did (words stuck in my head it boiled me so much).brb....


                              ....just did a search and think this guy must be who they were talking about,

                              There is a story in Michael Lewis's Vanity Fair article on the fall of Ireland of a former senior bond trader in Merrill Lynch who got caught with a pile of bonds in Irish banks on September 29, 2008. He had been trying to sell these bonds back to the bank at 50c on the dollar. That is, he was willing to take a 50 per cent haircut just to get out of it. That guy woke up the next morning to find his bonds were worth 100 cents on the dollar. He couldn't believe his luck that our government had guaranteed them.
                              The point Lewis is making is that no one in the world of the private sector expected 100c back in the dollar on debts that went disastrously wrong. And then along we come like alter boys and insisted on crippling ourselves to pay back everything. By the way, if you haven't read Lewis' article you should. Putting aside a tendency toward Paddywhackery and slight errors, it is the most embarrassing thing you will ever read about yourself. Like someone writing a blow-by-blow dispassionate account of everything you did the night before, read while you have a hangover and the fear. But worth reading.

                              from irish independent.

                              Would that make you sick or what.

                              Comment

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