Benefits could be cut to fall in line with salary increases

[Lainie]

again dont want to take thread off track but i do wonder what is the point in paying N I conts?

people who have never paid it still get benefit so whats the point?

[ChaLeeBoy]

If the unemployed must work for benefits then I think it only fair that salaries be cut to fall in line with benefits.

[GastonJ]

again dont want to take thread off track but i do wonder what is the point in paying N I conts?

people who have never paid it still get benefit so whats the point?

It was supposed to pay for the NHS and welfare state, however it has been admitted that it's just another tax. I believe those nice conservatives are having a review (generally means they'll do it) of combining them, so they can tax everyone who actually 'works' for a living even more

Integrating the operation of income tax and National Insurance contributions: a call for evidence - HM Treasury

[Lainie]

If the unemployed must work for benefits then I think it only fair that salaries be cut to fall in line with benefits.

wow wow wow - stop the bus

lets get 1 thing crystal clear here

benefits dont just cover jobseekers and employment and support allowance. they also cover, child tax credit, child benefit, housing benefit, council tax benefit etc etc

people say working for their benefit is wrong!!!

so say for a month they are working for -

housing benefit - say ?500
council tax benefit - say ?150
jsa or esa - ?284

total - ?934

so bloody right they should work for that!! its just below my wage


so please dont say poor souls working for their benefit


above amounts for a single person - would be a lot more for having kids.

[tornado]

Lainie i do kind of agree with u but its the type of jobs they would do that matters like if there told to work in tescos or pound land etc that means there taking other peoples jobs away from them and big companies make from it it has to be the kind of jobs where local people gain from it not big companies or your just making the poor into slaves.U only have to look at whats going on at the moment,mandatory work activity u do 4 weeks in a shop or what ever the shop owner gets paid for u being there the private companies that run it get paid for sorting it all this money comes from the tax payer,does the person get a job at the end off it no so it dont work it just costs, thats been proved it dont work.then u have the work programme paid for by the tax payer again its not working more money to the private companies,why is it that the dwp dont run it it would cost less,then u look at who owns all the private companies who do u think there friends with.ive paid tax for 30 years this is my first time on the dole simple thing is u get no help from any off them there just making money from it, would why im out off work would i do a job where it help the locals yes but not tescos and all the rest they try and send u to.It all needs fixing and i dont see why someone who has never done a days work be left to lay in bed why others pay for it.

[GastonJ]

wow wow wow - stop the bus

lets get 1 thing crystal clear here

benefits dont just cover jobseekers and employment and support allowance. they also cover, child tax credit, child benefit, housing benefit, council tax benefit etc etc

people say working for their benefit is wrong!!!

so say for a month they are working for -

housing benefit - say ?500
council tax benefit - say ?150
jsa or esa - ?284

total - ?934

so bloody right they should work for that!! its just below my wage


so please dont say poor souls working for their benefit


above amounts for a single person - would be a lot more for having kids.

So are you saying that your salary the baseline for everyone's benefits and that everyone on benefits should move into a single room Kelloggs box or receive nothing? Benefits are supposed to enable people to live, not comfortably, but to be able to live.

So from your examples above,

The rent is the rent. If it's not paid that person will be homeless. If the councils can provide it cheaper then they should, and at that point the benefit will pay the rent for the housing the councils provide (most councils sold off their housing stock - but there you go). I suppose they could all be homeless instead? Seems to me that landlords are the ones making the money out of this, not the unemployed.

Council tax is set by councils. Failure to pay means that the person ends up in court, or worse prison. I suppose that would save on housing costs, and council tax, being in prison?

JSA/ESA, give them nothing and let them starve? save on all 3 things? The levels are supposed to be set to enable that person to have the basic essentials and find work.

I didn't realise we'd all stepped back into the 1980's when the Tories cut everything apart from their own wages. Back to the "what's in it for me spiral once more" I see.

I pay my tax, I complain, but I don't expect anyone to live in a cardboard box and eat nothing just because they have the misfortune to be made unemployed through no fault of their own. (As I understand it those that walk out on jobs or are sacked are given nothing anyway)

Who's going to decide that someone is abusing the system, you, me, or are we going to pick people at random and watch them live on the streets and starve?

[Lainie]

My point gaston is people on benefit should not be better off than those that work and at the moment a lot r. My partners x has sky tv with ALL the channels. Ffs we cant even afford that! I had to live with parents till i could afford a place. You hav no idea how many teenagers claim housing benefit. Some even say oh my mum kicked me out as she doesnt get ctc any more!! the majority of people on incapacity benefit had been on it 15 yrs plus. The outstanding amounts on crisis and budgeting loans runs well into double figures of ?millons. Wonder what they will do when it ends next year!

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[mtv1]

i could help there lainie

off topic

[GastonJ]

My point gaston is people on benefit should not be better off than those that work and at the moment a lot r. My partners x has sky tv with ALL the channels. Ffs we cant even afford that! I had to live with parents till i could afford a place. You hav no idea how many teenagers claim housing benefit. Some even say oh my mum kicked me out as she doesnt get ctc any more!! the majority of people on incapacity benefit had been on it 15 yrs plus. The outstanding amounts on crisis and budgeting loans runs well into double figures of ?millons. Wonder what they will do when it ends next year!

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No they shouldn't, however it's all down to viewpoint really. If someone under 25 is kicked out by their parents, for whatever reason, does that mean

a) We force their parents to take them back and resent them for the rest of their lives?
b) Hand the kid a Kelloggs box and make them live in that on the streets?
c) Get them somewhere to live until they can stand on their own 2 feet?

The system isn't perfect and it never will catch those who will evade work in any shape or form. However it seems that the government want to punish 99% of the 'unemployed' population for the sake of the 1% who don't want to work (or at least use them as an excuse cut benefits).

I dare say those with no children who pay taxes would like to see an end to child benefit, child tax credit, nursery fees all binned - since they will never get anything from the tax they pay, that way they'd pay less tax - does that make it right?

What about stopping pensions, since people choose to get old instead of committing suicide at 65, after all why should we pay tax for those that want to retire and laze around all day?

Generalising, which governments are good at day in day out, isn't always a good thing. I seem to recall Dave Cameron saying that "all of the people are behind public sector pension cuts".... he never asked me or anyone I know, yet he claimed "all" - load of b**locks.

Anyway long and short of it, the 1% abusing the system (if it is 1%) need a kick up the ar$e, the other 99% need help to get back into useful employment. More time spent finding out who the 1% are and less time blowing hot air would be a good idea.

And rather than cut benefits to make the difference between benefits and working wage wider - the minimum wage should rise to make the difference wider and give more of an incentive to work.

[Lainie]

i certainly dont want any child benefits withdrawn. however it costs the same to bring up a child whether you are working or not so all child benefits should be paid equally. those that work get practically nothing while those on benefit get over ?50 per week per child.

i think no one earling under ?20000 should pay tax or nat insurance.

i do think those that have never paid into the system should not get as much as those of us that do.

slightly more than !% abusing the system and well over 1% of people who dont work.

so you think its fair for someone on benefits to get the full sky package when some that work dont??

these days and i know theres not a lot of council accommodation available but over 70% of those on benefit live in private rented accommodation. they dont bat an eyelid being told rent is ?700 a month as they know the state will pay it.

of course i dont have a quick fix - i wish i did but the system is ****ed

[Hoppy01]

Its amazing how peoples views all vary and sometimes get heated when it comes to the benefit system, a system that's sustained 30yrs of short term reform to suit their policies and not the needs of the people..
This thread probably wouldn't exist if a bunch of pig greedy bankers hadn't brought the world economy to its knees, you wanna shout at people who have cheated you out of money then Mr Banker would be a good place to start.
A find it hard to swallow that today the sick, unemployed (damn thieving ba******,off with their heads) and less well off are the primary target for Britain's problems.
We know there are people who rip the total arse out of the system but a don't remember them bringing the economy to its knees, there will always be scroungers but keep in mind they were created by past governments mistakes, governments that never wanted to tackle the social slide and opted for some hair brained short term bull**** scheme.

We have lost generations who have never been educated in how to strive for something better in life, generations that know nothing except how to get the most from the system.
A remember hearing a young girl telling her pal that she would get a better house now that she's pregnant..
A think that's tragic tbh and alarm bells should be ringing that there is a social problem that needs fixing properly in Britain and reducing their benefits isn't gonna cure a damn thing.

In Dumbarton we did a project a few years back at giving old council pc's to kids in deprived areas.
It happened after a young boy at school couldn't do his homework because he didn't have a pc, his Dad couldn't afford one so he started a project to have old ex council pc's given out to poorer areas..
The council said that it would cost too much to have them formatted and reused so a few of us geeks in the local area volunteered to do it for free.
We even set up a little club for the kids to attend once a week where i would answer any questions they had and it was always full.
A can tell you that a few of them went on to gain careers in I.T and they still email me the odd time, my point being that these were kids going nowhere and with a little guidance they got out of that social trap.
If a small community of people can achieve this on a budget of 50p then why is our government failing so badly at tackling this problem and why do they seem to think that the answer is always cutting benefits.

The truth is our government is quite happy when were all arguing about it on forums, it means we are ignoring their years of absolute failure and the core reason why we are in the financial trouble we are in.
Blunder after blunder like deregulation of the banks, opting to join any war that America wants to fight, sustaining a huge military budget on nuclear arms and failing to invest in anything that doesn't turn a quick buck.
All these chickens have came home to roost and many hard working people are unemployed as a result, so whats the government response, now we want your benefit money and packing bags at Tesco.

I am proud we have a benefit system that catches the less well off and especially the sick and elderly, one day it might be you or i in that position.
I am proud of the NHS, one day it will probably save your life.
I am proud that our people don't live in tents for the most part, unlike many people who live in the land of the free and king of capitalism who actually believed the American dream.
We are British and the Britain i used to know looked after their own and actually gave a sh** but the more i read, the more i see it gradually slipping away by bull**** governments who couldn't care less..


Sorry about the length of this post but its something i care about....

[Snowy79]

It's about time the Government set a fixed rate for private rented accomodation payments at the same rate paid by a Council tennant. Landlords are making a killing renting to those on benefits. They buy up run down properties for buttons then throw a few tennants in and charge top dollar. If the Government dropped it's payments the Landlords would soon sell their properties leaving more for the open market or even local councils to buy.

I know a few Landlords with over 100 properties being rented out to those on benefits. They're making a fortune. Why don't the councils just buy them up and rent them out. It would soon pay for itself.

[GastonJ]

Good idea, but they won't. Sadly the majority of landlords vote Conservative so that councils aren't allowed to build houses and more people end up claiming benefits, which the landlords see as a steady income, as you pointed out.

[Frogger]

All this chaos appears to be by design and has been predicted time and time again. When has there ever been order?

It an "Us and Them" scenario now and thats how its going to stay until ordinary people start becoming leaders instead of blaming them, while accepting them.

A starter would be to stop worshipping the Monarchy aka The Sovereign. Its a complete racist system based on ruling the masses through whoever inherits their same DNA and is a Protestant.

If a workplace, for example like Tesco, Iceland or Poundland did that, it would be headline news for goodness sake.

When do you ever hear the head of state having a say in things?

The Monarch or Sovereign acts as a focus for national identity, unity and pride; gives a sense of stability and continuity; officially recognises success and excellence; and supports the ideal of voluntary service.

In all these roles The Sovereign is supported by members of their immediate family.

All laws are brought into existence in the name of Justice and that Justice is done in the name of the Sovereign.

Did you know?

Civil and criminal proceedings cannot be taken against the Sovereign as a person under UK law, However the Queen is careful to ensure that all her activities in her personal capacity are carried out in strict accordance with the law.

No-one can be accountable up the chain!

Pass the Duchy on the left hand side.

A Duchy aint a blunt, its a Royal Income or capital assets!
Speaks for itself then huh?