Iain Duncan Smith targets 'destructive' welfare system

[super jumbe]

The possibility of capping the benefits of families with a certain number of children is expected to be raised again by Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith.

In a speech, he is also set to say school leavers should not be able to go straight onto housing benefit.

Some parts of the benefit system are "destructive", he will add.

Labour said the government's welfare changes meant working people were paying more in and getting less back.

Cultural change
Mr Duncan Smith will ask whether families should be able to expect never-ending amounts of money for every child, when working households have to make tough choices about what they can afford.

His overarching message is expected to be that a cultural change is required - both in the minds of those on benefits and in government - that treats the welfare system as a springboard into work, rather than something that traps people into a life of dependency.

For government the cultural change means judging spending not on the amount put in but on the results produced.

BBC political correspondent Gary O'Donoghue said this was a useful argument at a time when ministers said they needed to cut a further ?10bn from the welfare budget.

Chancellor George Osborne intends to save that amount in benefit costs by 2016-17 on top of the ?18bn already being reduced.



Yet this government sees fit to give ?40,000 to 8,000 millionaires in tax cuts, yet is cutting tax credits so hard that thousands are now better off on benefits.

[gopher7]

They'll be coming out with "you can only have 2 kids" next.

[Snowy79]

I'd be happy if they scrapped it all together. They don't give the infertile money to pay for things they can't afford so why give someone money for kids. If they can't afford them don't have them.

It's the 21st Century, there's plenty of ways to prevent pregnancy. Obviously rape etc should be taken into consideration.

[GastonJ]

and what abot people who have good jobs, have kids because they have the money, and then because say, I dunno, maybe some banks overstretch themselves, have to be bailed out and through no fault of their own the parents find themselves unemployed? They had the kids because they were working and could afford it.

Do you suppose they should have their benefits capped because of the reckless behavour of the *ankers driving the country into a recession and a government that seems hell bent on not making the banks, and those who got rich by it, pay?

The government seems hell bent on making public sector workers and the people least able to defend themselves pay, rather than taxing those that should pay. easy targets picked as usual. 19080's me, me, me, me all over again.

[Canker_Canison]

This is one of the few propositions I actually agree with, in part.

Something has to be done about the chavy scum that start having kids straight out of school (those are the slow starters) just to get a house & benefits...instead of further education & a possible job.

I would put the cap at 3 kids. After 3 kids there's no more extra money.

Everybody has to make a choice, it doesn't matter where they are in the social ladder. Nobody has job security...except undertakers & prison inmates. It might make people think more.

Has anyone here watched Idiocracy?

During the prologue, a narrator (Earl Mann) explains the story's premise: that in modern society, natural selection is indifferent toward intelligence, with the result that in the future, stupid people (who reproduce more often) will greatly outnumber the intelligent.

It is happening, dumb ~~~~s are breading like rabbits while those with intelligence are too busy working to have kids.

[thered]

This is one of the few propositions I actually agree with, in part.

Something has to be done about the chavy scum that start having kids straight out of school (those are the slow starters) just to get a house & benefits...instead of further education & a possible job.

I would put the cap at 3 kids. After 3 kids there's no more extra money.

Everybody has to make a choice, it doesn't matter where they are in the social ladder. Nobody has job security...except undertakers & prison inmates. It might make people think more.

Has anyone here watched Idiocracy?




It is happening, dumb ~~~~s are breading like rabbits while those with intelligence are too busy working to have kids.

I agree in some principals but how do you define intelligence??

i know bright intellectual people who struggle in mcdonalds yet people who are looked at as dumb can do all sorts of things the intellectual couldnt

a person can read books all day and be classed as super smart grade a student but in reality can be thick as **** with no life skills

which are the stupid ones the ones who sit back and have 6 kids and get the money or the ones who go to work to pay for the 6 kids??

[Hoppy01]

This just looks like another pile of Tory crap tbh...!
Once again who gets hit, your average person and its all in the name of cuts, control and dodging long term issues.
I came from a big family, my Mum and Dad have always worked as have my brothers and sisters and myself, as a family we have contributed more than we have ever taken out, am sure there are many families in the same position..

This is another Tory way filling in that massive black hole that their criminal banker friends left us, the ones that they are terrified of going after, they can't bite the hand that feeds them now, no no no, they just get ?1.2 trillion to bail them out with no regulation changes and no criminal charges but don't you even think about having a third child you piece of common scum..

This Nazi crap makes me wanna puke and is another example of why we are paying the price of Government failures time after time.
Cameron may have put a nice modern veneer to the Tories but underneath lies the same old dinosaurs who produce the same old crap and it will never benefit you or i...

[Canker_Canison]

I agree in some principals but how do you define intelligence??

i know bright intellectual people who struggle in mcdonalds yet people who are looked at as dumb can do all sorts of things the intellectual couldnt

a person can read books all day and be classed as super smart grade a student but in reality can be thick as **** with no life skills

which are the stupid ones the ones who sit back and have 6 kids and get the money or the ones who go to work to pay for the 6 kids??

I'm guessing you've not seen the film. Here's part of the opening scene....
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icmRCixQrx8]Idiocracy - YouTube[/ame]

I've got nothing against the people who work & support their family. It's the people who see kids as a way to get more benefits that need to be curbed.

I'm pretty certain there are no DK members that are 20 years old, have 4 kids, a council house & never worked a day in their lives.
Those people live on faceshite & post videos on youtube of their kids smashing up street furniture.
This is a technical forum with well educated members & people who can think as an individual... even Meaty.

I know a few people who need a wake up call. It seems that every time I see them, there's a new boyfriend & another kid on the way. With no intentions of ever finding a job.
If you work for a living it won't bother you that child support stops increasing after the third kid.

[thered]

I'm guessing you've not seen the film. Here's part of the opening scene....
Idiocracy - YouTube

I've got nothing against the people who work & support their family. It's the people who see kids as a way to get more benefits that need to be curbed.

I'm pretty certain there are no DK members that are 20 years old, have 4 kids, a council house & never worked a day in their lives.
Those people live on faceshite & post videos on youtube of their kids smashing up street furniture.
This is a technical forum with well educated members & people who can think as an individual... even Meaty.

I know a few people who need a wake up call. It seems that every time I see them, there's a new boyfriend & another kid on the way. With no intentions of ever finding a job.
If you work for a living it won't bother you that child support stops increasing after the third kid.

i agree with everything you just said my point was what justifies as intelligence?

who is the daftest the never worked with 4 kids or the person who pays taxes for the 5 of them??

[Canker_Canison]

i agree with everything you just said my point was what justifies as intelligence?

who is the daftest the never worked with 4 kids or the person who pays taxes for the 5 of them??

Would it be better to ask which planned ahead?

If this change goes through, those that planned ahead may lose a little money.
Those that saw that more kids equals more money are gonna be screwed.

There is intelligence in laziness, but only as far as the next government payout.

I suppose those that adapt quickly to the change will be showing higher levels of intelligence.

I know what you're driving at, but there are things the hard working folk can do to cut down on the amount of tax they pay.

[GastonJ]

Would it be better to ask which planned ahead?

If this change goes through, those that planned ahead may lose a little money.
Those that saw that more kids equals more money are gonna be screwed.

I suppose those that adapt quickly to the change will be showing higher levels of intelligence.

I know what you're driving at, but there are things the hard working folk can do to cut down on the amount of tax they pay.

I've said my part about the rest of it above

Murder of extra kids going to be made legal then? There'll be more kids in care very soon, and where will that money come from?

When did the government spending less on the welfare state mean less tax for the working? We've had 2 years of cuts and savings now, and we've not seen a fall in tax. Oh that's right the banks still have the money and are taking more. They make hefty profits and share them out in bonus payments to each other.

Bank jobs must be rarer than a banker ever being sacked with no payoff.

[Snowy79]

Paying for feral kids is just the tip of the Iceberg. Sadly a lot of kids don't know what it's like to have a working parent and are begining to expect things as a right. They're too good to work in the likes of McDonalds and argue that it's not financially viable to work as they get the same if not less than if they are on beneifts.

Well they're in for a rude awakening once they reach an age where their kids are too old for them to get benefits and they find they're left on just personal benefits.

Very few companies are going to employ someone who's been long term unemployed when you've got hundreds of others to choose from. Before you know it they'll be of pension age and never worked a day in their life and probably expect the workers to give them a good standard of living then.

Cap the benefits at two kids and maybe then it will be beneficial for them to still work. Start looking after the tax payer for a change.

[Frogger]

i agree with everything you just said my point was what justifies as intelligence?

who is the daftest the never worked with 4 kids or the person who pays taxes for the 5 of them??

With no ill-will towards you @ thered.

Thats quite a question.

But then

Whos the daftest, the one who pays by council tax, water tax, or TV tax or all them other taxes to fund the air strikes on innocent human beings caught in the middle of all these false wars, or the one who drops them?

Or the ones who pay for such bombs and then also funds the refugees who come to the UK to flee the hell inflited by tax monies.?

This question could fit any scenario wherever you put it.

I think everyone or most people today are perhaps judging others way too quickly, and pointing the finger as most people mindsets and ideas are just other peoples opinions. (now thats a judgement )

What we need is a new original idea where no one is left behind.

That would entail removing the current "Coalition" (one where the bigger party is the Prime Minister and that other blokes party) and putting in a genuine structured Gov.

Impossible.....

This would take a genuine intelligent mass of people to do.

[Meat-Head]

wrong thread i know, but can somebody explain, where this debt has come from.

lets go back to 1979 when maggie came along, that one generation, speak up brown.

[tornado]

debt well what did not help was selling every thing off and now selling the roads off etc and when they have no income they put tax up. Gas electric water etc look how much the private companies r making it does go back to the maggie times.then theres the silly laws no smoking in pubs how many pubs r left now.Simple lets just blame the poor then the poor get even more poor the rich get even more rich when will it stop.