EU exit would be dreadful for Britain, says Major

[super jumbe]

LONDON (Reuters) - A British exit from the European Union would be a dreadful decision that would cost billions of pounds and leave the world's sixth largest economy isolated, former Prime Minister John Major was quoted as saying on Friday.

Prime Minister David Cameron has promised to try to renegotiate the terms of his country's EU membership before holding an "in-out" referendum if re-elected in 2015, which could lead to Britain dropping out of a club it joined in 1973.

Major, who served as prime minister from 1990 to 1997, backed attempts to renegotiate Britain's EU ties but said the government needed to be realistic about what it could achieve.

In a speech to business leaders at the Institute of Directors, Major said Britain would pay a severe price if it left the EU.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/eu-exit-dreadful-britain-says-major-100833463.html

[GastonJ]

and, even though he's a Tory, he's right. We keep hearing how much it costs to be in the EU, but never the amount of money it brings in, saves and how much it would cost if we left. Perhaps it would make uncomfortable reading for those who want the UK to leave the EU at any cost, since it won't be them paying *shrug*

Cue Kalipo with his usual meaningless generalisations......

[Kalipo]

and, even though he's a Tory, he's right. We keep hearing how much it costs to be in the EU, but never the amount of money it brings in, saves and how much it would cost if we left. Perhaps it would make uncomfortable reading for those who want the UK to leave the EU at any cost, since it won't be them paying *shrug*

Cue Kalipo with his usual meaningless generalisations......

I resent that comment.

What about the commonwealth??

TBH i'm not bothered argueing it out anymore.. the government are walking themselves into it.. ...

But i will say this.. WHY do all leaders of parties before election all say "we will offer a referendum on the EU if elected"

The when it comes down to it say no, its not the right time?? you must agree with me on this one? they are surely hiding something??

[Meat-Head]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]232750[/ATTACH]

LONDON (Reuters) - A British exit from the European Union would be a dreadful decision that would cost billions of pounds and leave the world's sixth largest economy isolated, former Prime Minister John Major was quoted as saying on Friday.

]

Sorry just remind me That earthquake where we sent ?50,000,000 of aid the week before last are they in the EU?

[url=http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-10-113_en.htm]EUROPA - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - Factsheet on response to Haiti earthquake[/url]

[GastonJ]

I resent that comment.

What about the commonwealth??

TBH i'm not bothered argueing it out anymore.. the government are walking themselves into it.. ...

But i will say this.. WHY do all leaders of parties before election all say "we will offer a referendum on the EU if elected"

The when it comes down to it say no, its not the right time?? you must agree with me on this one? they are surely hiding something??

Resent what you wish, that's up to you

What about the Commonwealth? The only thing we have in common with them is that we invaded their land, took it off them and were then either blackmailed by the US (in order to get loans from them for the 2 ww's) to give them up or shamed into giving them back in some cases.

Politicians would promise anything before an election to get you to elect them, it's in their nature.

I've seen, as has everyone else, the usual crap about "we'd be better off out of Europe..." all they have to do is detail the cost of leaving and the cost of staying in the EU (the cost of staying we already know) and people can make their own minds up, yet none of them ever do give us the cost of leaving and the future impact. If as they claim that the UK will be better off then producing the facts would be in their interests surely? or perhaps they don't want people to know the real cost and who'd pay.

The only conclusion that can be drawn is that the few will gain and the many will lose by leaving the EU. If they can prove that the majority will not lose out then I'd vote to leave. Instead all we get are generalisations from those that have something to gain.

[bobwill]

Which ever way the vote went there will always be winners or losers
The lower paid skilled workers would gain ie building workers as when the Polish move here on mass wages went down by nearly 33 per cent
people renting housing would gain as house rents went up when all the low paid workers from EU moved here
The rich would lose not so much cheap labour to bring in but then they would bring labour in from third world *shrug*

[GastonJ]

There's a lot more to it than that though when you look at the detail.

There's a plenty of companies in the UK because being based in the UK means they don't have to pay import tariffs to the EU by being here. If the UK weren't in the EU then the likes of Honda, GM, Ford and Nissan would likely go off to countries in the EU to avoid paying tariffs when trying to sell from the UK to the EU. They're just examples, there will be plenty of companies that see the EU as a bigger market, dont' want to pay for import into the EU so move.

We have UK citizens working in the EU, they would have to apply for work visa's the same as everyone else, else return to the UK.

Selling to the EU would mean that we'd likely have to pay any import tariffs the same as 'external' countries do, such as China. We do more than ?400 billion trade with the EU each year, if they imposed a 5% tariff on goods and services sold to the EU then that's ?20 billion before you start. Yes you can choose not to trade with them at that price, but who are you going to sell to instead?

The EU would be free to pass laws that would include the finance type ones that Osbourne didn't like (and worse), the difference is if we wanted to trade with the EU we'd have to comply with them anyway. Just because you decide not to be part of the EU doesn't mean you don't have to comply with the legislation that they impose when you trade with them.

Take a look at Norway, it's not in the EU, but is in partnership - however they pay around 80% of what the UK does. Is leaving worth 20%?

Just because you leave the EU doesn't mean you can ignore their laws, so the EU courts would still be able to make rulings that affect the UK.

Quick examples. Save ?15 billion in payments to the EU is the known cost of staying.

[Meat-Head]

There's a lot more to it than that though when you look at the detail.

Ford and Nissan would likely go off to countries in the EU We have UK citizens working in the EU, they would have to apply for work visa's the same as everyone else, else return to the UK.

The EU would be free to pass laws that would include the finance type ones that Osbourne didn't like (and worse), the difference is if we wanted to trade with the EU we'd have to comply with them anyway. Just because you decide not to be part of the EU doesn't mean you don't have to comply with the legislation that they impose when you trade with them.

Just because you leave the EU doesn't mean you can ignore their laws, so the EU courts would still be able to make rulings that affect the UK.


.

Does that mean non Inglish people can get told to bugggger orf?

Well ford have alread buggered off to Turkey, Vermin media gone to Endia, that gas supplier should be called "German Gas".

Nelson Mandella has already said he will shut his IMPORT factory that ASSEMBLES cars with FORGEIN made parts.

What do you mean about the law affecting Ingland?

Please give example

Thanksssssss

[GastonJ]

Easy, EU imposes 50% tax on financials transactions that come from outside the EU, and we're not in the EU, we either pay the 50% tax or don't trade with the EU - simple as that.

If the EU made tobacco illegal in the EU then you won't be taking any on holiday to Spain with you will you? Nor would any be imported via the EU. Extreme example, but that's how it is.

Just because you leave the EU doesn't mean that the European Court of Human Rights doesn't have juristiction in the UK. The ECHR's convention was adopted by all 47 members of The Council of Europe which means even if we leave the EU we will still be subject to the ECHR's rulings as a member of the Council of Europe - same as the other 46 members of the Council of Europe, not to be confused with the EU *shrug*

Not to worry, this will all be in the documents that anyone would give you before you vote, so that you are well informed, I'm sure....

[Kalipo]

There's a lot more to it than that though when you look at the detail.

There's a plenty of companies in the UK because being based in the UK means they don't have to pay import tariffs to the EU by being here. If the UK weren't in the EU then the likes of Honda, GM, Ford and Nissan would likely go off to countries in the EU to avoid paying tariffs when trying to sell from the UK to the EU. They're just examples, there will be plenty of companies that see the EU as a bigger market, dont' want to pay for import into the EU so move.

We have UK citizens working in the EU, they would have to apply for work visa's the same as everyone else, else return to the UK.

Selling to the EU would mean that we'd likely have to pay any import tariffs the same as 'external' countries do, such as China. We do more than ?400 billion trade with the EU each year, if they imposed a 5% tariff on goods and services sold to the EU then that's ?20 billion before you start. Yes you can choose not to trade with them at that price, but who are you going to sell to instead?

The EU would be free to pass laws that would include the finance type ones that Osbourne didn't like (and worse), the difference is if we wanted to trade with the EU we'd have to comply with them anyway. Just because you decide not to be part of the EU doesn't mean you don't have to comply with the legislation that they impose when you trade with them.

Take a look at Norway, it's not in the EU, but is in partnership - however they pay around 80% of what the UK does. Is leaving worth 20%?

Just because you leave the EU doesn't mean you can ignore their laws, so the EU courts would still be able to make rulings that affect the UK.

Quick examples. Save ?15 billion in payments to the EU is the known cost of staying.

Gaston, you have just described the common market.. Which you don't have to join the EU Union to be a part of.

There are countries which aren't governed by the EU yet still have access to its trade.

Come again!

[GastonJ]

Norway, they pay around 80% of the amount the UK trade via the EEA and EFTA and to do that adopts EU legislation. Perhaps you need to read more

Try selling PV solar panels to the EU from outside the EU and you get some idea of the tariffs that are paid:

Beginning on Aug. 6, the European Commission will impose company specific import duties from between 37.3 to 67.9% if an agreement with China is not reached by then.

The uniform tariff of 11.8% will be implemented on June 6 and run through Aug. 5. With the introduction of the anti-dumping duty, the customs guidelines introduced in March making it mandatory to register imports will no longer be in effect.

According to EU Regulation 513/2013, published Wednesday in the Official Journal of the European Union, the preliminary import duties for Chinese crystalline solar imports are based on "net free-at-Union-frontier price, before duty."

EU import tariffs of up to 67.9% as of August: pv-magazine

I think you'll find that should we leave the EU we'll also be paying such tariffs on goods we export to the EU.

Anyway, I'm sure the leaflets will inform you of this, just wait for Dave to deliver them.

[Kalipo]

Norway, they pay around 80% of the amount the UK trade via the EEA and EFTA and to do that adopts EU legislation. Perhaps you need to read more

Yes i didn't say otherwise. I simply implied that it is possible to stay out of the EU and still use its trade.

Thing is I'm sure.. is that if the UK did leave the EU we would setup a new trade agreement..

Not yet sure on this but i'm certain as a country we buy more from them than we sell to them..

It would be disastrous for BMW, Siemens and Fiat to not be able to sell their cars and trains cheaply.. There would be a new trade agreement because on this basis the EU would lose millions in revenue.. If they didn't we wouldn't buy from them.. so FORD and bombardier would get contracts..

The initial loss of revenue from how you put it from 37.3 to 67.9% would be offset from the green taxes and cost of membership and other little costs which the EU impose..


I don't posses to know completely everything about the EU.. but i do get a feeling we're being taken for a ride..

I saw something yesterday which said German boots on Britains streets policing in a EU style FBI.. Now i believe this could of been the daily mail or the mirror or even the sun.. now i know they used the word German as this is a word which is etched into the minds of the public.. "my father fought to stop german boots on our soil stories" i do think this is wrong as its an easy way to get votes..

I do believe we should have some sort of chaired inquiry into the ins and outs of leaving the EU and not just hearsay so to speak..

[GastonJ]

It is possible to stay out of the EU, but then you are still subject to the legislation they pass and the tariffs they want to impose on anyone exporting to the EU. Found a reasonable source of imports/exports to from/to the EU, or as unbiased as it gets, from HMRC

https://www.uktradeinfo.com/statistics/euoverseastrade/Pages/EuOTS.aspx

This doesn't appear to include services, what is clear though is that we almost export in 1 month more than we pay to the EU. The very sad thing is that we import more than we export no wonder we're cking broke. Maybe it's time to have a 'Buy British' drive, which if all those who complained about the EU took up, we could end up being a net exporter and therefore drag ourselves out of debt - which we are failing to do unlike Germany.

[rds60h]

It is possible to stay out of the EU, but then you are still subject to the legislation they pass and the tariffs they want to impose on anyone exporting to the EU. Found a reasonable source of imports/exports to from/to the EU, or as unbiased as it gets, from HMRC

https://www.uktradeinfo.com/statistics/euoverseastrade/Pages/EuOTS.aspx

This doesn't appear to include services, what is clear though is that we almost export in 1 month more than we pay to the EU. The very sad thing is that we import more than we export no wonder we're cking broke. Maybe it's time to have a 'Buy British' drive, which if all those who complained about the EU took up, we could end up being a net exporter and therefore drag ourselves out of debt - which we are failing to do unlike Germany.

How can you have a Buy British drive when we manufacture next to nothing. Earlier you mentioned about Ford, GM, Honda and Nissan moving out if we come out of the EU, well Ford and GM have already dropped the majority of their British workforce and this was done after we joined the EU and they have re-invested in other cheaper parts of Europe. Honda and Nissan came here because they were paid huge amounts and given all sorts of incentives by the government and having set up here discovered that the best quality production of any of their world wide sites was here, even exceeding their latest technology plants in Japan and they also found that their production costs per unit here was amongst their cheapest.
The only expanding productive activity that we have is that of Technological innovation and advancement, which once it has reached the point where it is viable for mass production it is moved abroad because we no longer have the factories to produce anything.

[Kalipo]

It is possible to stay out of the EU, but then you are still subject to the legislation they pass and the tariffs they want to impose on anyone exporting to the EU. Found a reasonable source of imports/exports to from/to the EU, or as unbiased as it gets, from HMRC

https://www.uktradeinfo.com/statistics/euoverseastrade/Pages/EuOTS.aspx

Again, We will have to set up a new trade agreement..

I'm sure We are one of if not the only country to sit in the EU to actually abide by every single rule! no other country in the EU has 100% abide by the rules.

Even if we do leave and we do set up a trade agreement and have rules imposed, it will be no different to what we are already doing.. Look at china, they have appalling human rights, but because we want to trade with them and visa versa, we turn a blind eye to it!

The EU WILL allow rules to be broken!